MrMartian Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) A) found the bug when the Atari is turned off.. yay! B) I can't format disks again with this thing... Has anyone else that has tried this ROM had problems formatting disks? What I mean is, the drive goes through the whole format sequence but then the disk is unreadable.... Edited May 17, 2020 by MrMartian Added clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 Well, I can reliably format single density.. This rings a bell, that's it only double density that fails. So, if you're testing for me, just let me know about DD please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I’m about a week away from being able to test (hopefully!) Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, MrMartian said: B) I can't format disks again with this thing... Has anyone else that has tried this ROM had problems formatting disks? What I mean is, the drive goes through the whole format sequence but then the disk is unreadable.... I have not tried myself - but I'm curious if you see any difference if the disk is formatted with "Standard" interleave where the ROM supplies the sector order, or "Ultraspeed" interleave where the Atari supplies the sector order? I think back to my AT-88 ROM hack, in one of my failed attempts to modify the sector order used in the ROM format routine, I forgot to XOR the bytes, and it would format trash all over the disk, stepping erratically too. If the Atari supplies the sector interleave, maybe a problem in the ROM would be worked around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Nezgar said: I have not tried myself - but I'm curious if you see any difference if the disk is formatted with "Standard" interleave where the ROM supplies the sector order, or "Ultraspeed" interleave where the Atari supplies the sector order? I think back to my AT-88 ROM hack, in one of my failed attempts to modify the sector order used in the ROM format routine, I forgot to XOR the bytes, and it would format trash all over the disk, stepping erratically too. If the Atari supplies the sector interleave, maybe a problem in the ROM would be worked around... Mine formats Ultraspeed using SDX formatter or the formatter SCOPY calls. It also will format Standard skew. I have tested it both with the HSIO routines in U1MB enabled and with it disabled, and with Spartados 3.2g. Best, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 6 hours ago, Jeffrey Worley said: Mine formats Ultraspeed using SDX formatter or the formatter SCOPY calls. It also will format Standard skew. I have tested it both with the HSIO routines in U1MB enabled and with it disabled, and with Spartados 3.2g. It works in all three densities, especially double-density, which is the mode I've used for a ton of testing. It will read a Highspeed formatted disk from my Indus just peachy at ultraspeed as well. Best, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 So, I did find a bug in formatting which should make it not work properly doing normal formats in ED or DD. Custom (ulraspeed) format would work. But that doesn't explain my issues. I'm guessing my drive doesn't exactly like MFM recording. I will investigate hardware issues then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 7 hours ago, MrMartian said: So, I did find a bug in formatting which should make it not work properly doing normal formats in ED or DD. Custom (ulraspeed) format would work. But that doesn't explain my issues. I'm guessing my drive doesn't exactly like MFM recording. I will investigate hardware issues then. Remove the shell and see how it does. Bet you get a working drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Jeffrey Worley said: Remove the shell and see how it does. Bet you get a working drive. I don't think it gets any more removed than this.... 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 Okay, went through this and found out my FDC adjustments were quite a bit off. My drive now works in all densities properly. Well, that's a but of wasted time thinking it was code.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 So okay, here's a new release. A few bugs fixed, code a bit more optimized. Still only shows 'F' on format, because so far it looks quite ugly trying to display the track while doing so. Rana 8031 US 1.0.bin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 9 hours ago, MrMartian said: Okay, went through this and found out my FDC adjustments were quite a bit off. My drive now works in all densities properly. Well, that's a but of wasted time thinking it was code.. Can you give me some data on which pots do what on the Rana board? I've heard tell of a book available, but not found that book. Best, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, MrMartian said: So okay, here's a new release. A few bugs fixed, code a bit more optimized. Still only shows 'F' on format, because so far it looks quite ugly trying to display the track while doing so. Rana 8031 US 1.0.bin 4 kB · 5 downloads Testing it now. So far so good. No real difference I see but it does SEEM to be a little faster? Did you shorten the delay before the drive goes back to track 39 to rest? Best, Jeff Edited May 18, 2020 by Jeffrey Worley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Anyone else notice that there are milspec parts in their Rana? I have a couple of 54-series ttl logic parts in mine. Just ordered some milspec 27c32-45 eproms too. Coincidence. The eproms were cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 25 minutes ago, Jeffrey Worley said: Anyone else notice that there are milspec parts in their Rana? I have a couple of 54-series ttl logic parts in mine. Just ordered some milspec 27c32-45 eproms too. Coincidence. The eproms were cheap. I just ordered 27c32-45's Saturday. Probably the same seller. And they were pretty cheap. Hopefully they will work with my Rana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 I found 450ns 2532's work fine in a 1050 which clocks them at 1Mhz. What does the Rana run at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted May 18, 2020 Author Share Posted May 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Nezgar said: I found 450ns 2532's work fine in a 1050 which clocks them at 1Mhz. What does the Rana run at? The chip runs with a 12MHz clock and it divides that internally to 12 states, so 1MHz maximum instruction speed. But it can access the ROM multiple times in through that cycle. A quick read through the Intel manual doesn't show any information on requirements either... 450ns might be too slow, but you could always try it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrMartian said: The chip runs with a 12MHz clock and it divides that internally to 12 states, so 1MHz maximum instruction speed. But it can access the ROM multiple times in through that cycle. A quick read through the Intel manual doesn't show any information on requirements either... 450ns might be too slow, but you could always try it! I know for sure that my TMS2732's don't work. I burnt three of them (all three I own), and they all acted dead or badly in the Rana today. One just retracted the head to zero and kept at that, which was alarming. LOL. Another displays a d or an E on the display and otherwise acts dead, one spins the disk sometimes but otherwise nothing. All verify ok, so I wonder if it was access time or something else. My burner only does 21volts, so these chips ought not program on it but do seem to just fine. The drive likes my ST2732 though, and is running that right now. Ah well. If the new eproms dont' work I'll get some that do. Sigh. We Ultraspeed Rana 1000 owners are so burdened and put-upon. Having an Ultraspeed Rana is heavy. Sigh. Ah me, sigh. ???? Edited May 18, 2020 by Jeffrey Worley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, Jeffrey Worley said: I know for sure that my TMS2732's don't work. I think I know. Somehow I stumbled across this this weekend. Quote As the story goes, TI developed the TMS-2716 (2K Eprom), but like the 2708 before it, it needed three voltages sources to program/use them . This was more complicated and therefore more expensive. At roughly the same time, Intel also launched "their" 2716 chip which was different than the TMS-2716 in that it only needed a single voltage to program (25v) and a 5V to operate. The Intel pinout was also a bit different than the TMS pinout. Akin to the Beta Vs. VHS battle, only one could survive and Intel proved to be the more popular, and thus, most other manufacturers produced Intel-like 2716. Bowing to pressure, TI also produced an Intel-like chip but could not call it 2716 since they already had a 2716. So they identified it as the TMS-2516. And thus was born the 25xx series. Recap : TMS-2516 = Intel (and all other) 2716 TMS-2716 != other 2716 TI specific, limited use (..in arcade games anyways..) Unfortunately, the story doesn't end there... After the 2K chips came the 4K chips (xx32) Intel simply used the same pinout as it's 2716 and added an extra addressing pin, thus the 2732. TI again decided to use a different pinout and to differentiate itself from the Intel 2732, it named it the TMS-2532. So 2532 != 2732 Virtually all 2532 you'll find are TI chips. Only very few manufacturers other than TI made 2532. (...I've only ever seen Motorola ) Most everyone again followed Intel's lead to create the 2732. Here is the full article: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups=#!msg/rec.games.video.arcade.collecting/CM2NOlsqxcQ/v2fl1Ek8rYsJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 On 5/17/2020 at 6:22 PM, MrMartian said: I don't think it gets any more removed than this.... Wow. Thats a real hairball. Hey, whats that sio device on top of the 800? Another Rana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMartian Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Jeffrey Worley said: Wow. Thats a real hairball. Hey, whats that sio device on top of the 800? Another Rana? Well, that's the real work side of my work bench... The Rana is torn apart, the wires behind it are my breadboarded Fujinet.. The drive on top of the 800 is a Super Archiver 1050, which I was using to read the disc after it was formatted double density by the Rana to see what was wrong. That fact that it couldn't read it either is what really made me look more into the Rana. I do have another Rana, but it's the 6502 variant. I didn't take any more pictures or videos - but even once the drive was all sealed up I still don't have any issues with reading or writing, or RPM. None of the stuttering that you get... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 I receive NMC27C32Q-45 chips today. According to this datasheet: https://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/-73715321934328814 It looks like this is programmed at 12.5 volts. When I select NMC27C32Q from the software for my TL866II-Plus, it defaults to 18. I set it to 12.5, and it gets an error on the first byte verification. Is there a trick to programming a 27C32 with this thing? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Okay. I just ordered my third burner. A GQ-4X V4. Hopefully this one will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, toddtmw said: I receive NMC27C32Q-45 chips today. According to this datasheet: https://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/-73715321934328814 It looks like this is programmed at 12.5 volts. When I select NMC27C32Q from the software for my TL866II-Plus, it defaults to 18. I set it to 12.5, and it gets an error on the first byte verification. Is there a trick to programming a 27C32 with this thing? Thanks. I'd go with the default, as when you select a specific chip, the program knows what that chip needs to program. The only time I change those values are when I'm programming a variant of the chip for which the software has no specific entry. Then, I select the generic entry and change the voltage and timing for the correct one. The most often modified entry is the Pulse Delay. Check the datasheet for your eprom, but 12.5volts is not the max I'm pretty sure, it is a minimum. Best, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Yeah. I tried that too. Didn’t work. I’m thinking this 866 programmer isn’t working. when I get the Atari one or the GQ one hopefully I’ll have better luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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