Another 7800 Game to update like Donkey Kong XM?

[Shawn]

Rampage_Edit_00.png 0294.png 0299.png

 

If anyone would like to help with the character sprites,

 

(I still don't want to upload the ROM until I have more done on the character sprites... but hopefully, soon)

If you could you add an ending to Rampage when your fixing it up that would be awesome. Curently it just loops after you beat all the cities and there is no end to the game like most other home console ports have. The game having an ending adds (would add) a real sense of acomplishment.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

If I could wrap my head around coding I would do an XM update for Dark Chambers (I guess the source hasn't been found for this which is too bad). I introduced the 7800 to my 8 year old son who really likes the game but the lack of music makes it a little dull (he also wants a boss battle, that could be interesting with a dragon boss or a manticore; perhaps some different enemy types as well that don't behave the same way like the current ones do, such as slime or gelatinous cubes).

 

Aside from that I also agree on Motor Psycho. It is a fun game that I enjoy. I'm guessing Planet Smashers hasn't been mentioned because the code isn't around for it but that badly needs work. Of course the problem would also be that the game mechanics need to be worked on and not just graphics/sound.

 

Personally I am not in the crowd that wants to see a bunch of other arcade remakes made for the system - I think the 7800 has sufficient already. I'm a huge arcade guy but I think we know what the 7800 can do in that regard already. I don't mind seeing remakes of already existing 7800 games since the disappointment there was we knew they could be done so much better. Those remakes on Mario Bros and Rampage look excellent. But if I could code, I would make new stuff like a first-person space combat/adventure game, or if a remake was in order, remake some 2600 game like Infiltrate where the basic concept could be expanded upon much more with what the 7800 could do (that was one of those games where I expected much more from it as a kid)

Edited May 9, 2014 by Shaggy the Atarian

[NIKON]

Makes me want to play the game ...<patiently awaits the rom >

[+Defender_2600]

I'm still plugging away at this. Redid the title screen again yesterday and added more building designs.

 

 

..."again" is much appreciated Kevin. Excellent work!

 

 

 

[Jaynz]

Shaggy, I think the main reason so many of use want to see additional 7800 arcade-ports is that, really, that's what made Atari big in the first place. Space Invaders, Missile Command, Asteroids. If you wanted arcade-style play, the Atari really was where it was at, even if the 2600s graphics and sound weren't quite up to par, the game play certainly was. With the 7800, you get a great 'hybrid' of the classic game play and adequate graphics (and sound, if you use POKEY), so it's naturally to want to see all those 'missed opportunities' done right.

 

This isn't to say that games like Apshai, Telengard, and Zelda wouldn't be more than welcome, but they're not really what you think of when you think "Atari Game".

 

The Atari 7800: The official "If Only" retro-console.

 

Edit: Just clarifying my point due to bad typing.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Jaynz

[Trebor]

If we're talking late 70's early 80's Arcade, indeed the 7800 has that in spades. Especially from Bob [Well over a dozen Arcade classics] and the rest of the homebrew developers - [i.E. Tep with Donkey Kong, Kenfused serving up b*nQ and Beef Drop], so I can see where Shaggy has somewhat of a point.

 

But Jayzn is dead-on with the whole "if only" - so much potential. At the very least, the 7800 should of had games like...

 

720 Degrees, A.P.B., Badlands, Blasteroids, Championship Sprint, Cyberball (2072), (Tournament), Escape From The Planet Of The Robot Monsters Gauntlet (II), Hydra, Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom, Last Starfighter The, Marble Madness, Paperboy, Peter Pack Rat, Pit-Fighter [Finished],Pot Shot, Rampart (Finished), KLAX (Finished), Road Blasters, Road Runner, Rolling Thunder, S.T.U.N. Runner, Shuuz, Skull & Crossbones, Super Sprint, ThunderJaws, Toobin', Vindicators (Part II), Xybots...

...All from the Atari Games division, but numerous other earlier Arcade classics too.

Some of the 83-85 titles that could have been made better from other systems or that no other system had: Mr. Do's Castle / Do Run Run, Pandora's Palace, Mappy, Sky Kid, Motos - Just a few off the top of my head.

The ones we have like Rampage, as Kevin is clearly demonstrating - at the very least, could have looked a heck of a lot better.

Indeed, many missed opportunities...

Thankfully a lot of exciting developments in the 7800 community. Looking forward to more fantastic releases - whatever the game type

 

 

[DracIsBack]

 

I'm guessing Planet Smashers hasn't been mentioned because the code isn't around for it but that badly needs work. Of course the problem would also be that the game mechanics need to be worked on and not just graphics/sound.

 

I always thought that when Plutos was discovered, it was "Planet Smashers" done correctly. :-)

[DracIsBack]

 

This isn't to say that games like Apshai, Telengard, and Zelda wouldn't be more than welcome, but they're not really what you think of when you think "Atari Game".

 

That's one way to look at it. There's also the way that many of us do who owned a 7800 when it was on the shelves alongside the NES and SMS. You'd see all kinds of hints that it was capable to some degree of competitive games, but Atari never seemed to quite want to pull it all together. Some games would have background music, some wouldn't. Some had cool, visually rich title screens, some wouldn't. A few had animated endings, most repeated. A couple had passwords, most didn't. A few had lots of levels, most didn't.

 

Lots of hints that maybe Atari wasn't exactly paying to put their best foot forward, but enough hints to show that there was more that was possible.

 

I always wondered what the Atari 7800 library would look like in an alternate universe if Nintendo and the top NES licenses were making the games with the same effort that they put into NES games.

 

 

 

The Atari 7800: The official "If Only" retro-console.

 

I've heard that said of the Jaguar and the Lynx also ...

Edited May 13, 2014 by DracIsBack

[Trebor]

 

I always thought that when Plutos was discovered, it was "Planet Smashers" done correctly. :-)

 

I almost thought that about Plutos, but...

 

 

 

Some games would have background music, some wouldn't.

...that's what stops it from being done correctly for me...No background music; really a disappointment in that regard.

 

Unrelated game but still along the same reasoning lines...If there's any 'WTF happened here' for a 7800 game lacking background music it's Skateboardin'.

 

Granted, it is a different game, but even the 2600 version has background music...lol.

[DracIsBack]

 

 

 

Unrelated game but still along the same reasoning lines...If there's any 'WTF happened here' for a 7800 game lacking background music it's Skateboardin'.

 

Granted, it is a different game, but even the 2600 version has background music...lol.

 

 

 

I thought Super Skateboarding did? Could have sworn it did. Maybe it's disabled by a difficulty switch or something? It's been years since I've played it. Was one of those games that I don't remember particularly loving or hating. Found it entertaining but forgettable personally. Found that about a lot of Absolute Entertainment/Imagineering's games actually ...

[Trebor]

Already tried the difficulty switches and even tripled checked the manual - No dice, unfortunately

 

Agreed about the forgettable factor to an extent - the view is fortified though having the game with no background music.

[KevinMos3]

Already tried the difficulty switches and even tripled checked the manual - No dice, unfortunately

 

Agreed about the forgettable factor to an extent - the view is fortified though having the game with no background music.

Super Skateboarding DOES have background music. It's turned on/off with a difficulty switch.

[Trebor]

Damn it - It's the right difficulty switch. I must have only tried the left...arghhh!

 

Right Difficulty switch = "B (Left Position)" = Music

Right Difficulty switch = "A (Right Position)" = No Music

 

Thank You (both)

[BenjaminR]

So that's how I can turn that music off. Thank you

[+Mitch]

There are actually several games that use the difficulty switch to turn on/off the background music. Seems to be about the only use 7800 games made of them. (with one or two exceptions)

 

Mitch

[Shaggy the Atarian]

Shaggy, I think the main reason so many of use want to see additional 7800 arcade-ports is that, really, that's what made Atari big in the first place. Space Invaders, Missile Command, Asteroids. If you wanted arcade-style play, the Atari really was where it was at, even if the 2600s graphics and sound weren't quite up to par, the game play certainly was. With the 7800, you get a great 'hybrid' of the classic game play and adequate graphics (and sound, if you use POKEY), so it's naturally to want to see all those 'missed opportunities' done right.

 

This isn't to say that games like Apshai, Telengard, and Zelda wouldn't be more than welcome, but they're not really what you think of when you think "Atari Game".

 

The Atari 7800: The official "If Only" retro-console.

 

Edit: Just clarifying my point due to bad typing.

 

 

I know what you mean but I guess it comes down to your definition of "arcade-style" and "Atari-style". For the most part there is no difference there. But there are many Atari games that were precursors to the more complex NES ones.

 

What I should elaborate on is that we can have original arcade/Atari-style games on the 7800 that aren't ports of some pre-existing IP. I enjoy the 7800 mostly because of the quirky games it had. The 5200 should have had more of the quirk than just trying to do arcade ports (yes even though it was the Personal Arcade Machine), too bad Meebzork and Black Belt weren't finished back then. Gremlins is a good example of an Atari-style game that wasn't an arcade port. And when I was a kid, my friends and I often spent a lot of time on the non-arcade ports - River Raid, Adventure, Pitfall II, Yars Revenge, Mines of Minos (I know most people don't like that one but my friends and I had fun with it). Honestly just looking at what happened on the market, those arcade ports did not save the 5200 or the 7800...or the Lynx really. I think it was the reliance on arcade ports that ended up hurting them since you could get many of those games on other platforms. Speaking of today though where MAME makes it very easy to get those games and the 7800 has quite a few of them already, that's where I would rather see how the 7800 could handle something along the lines of Star Raiders, Yars Revenge, Adventure, etc. before another port of an arcade game. I know those with the ability to code are usually just doing it for fun and that's great. But from the angle of what I am going to spend my money on, I am more willing to spend that money on Crystal Quest than Pac-Man.

 

I just don't think it is anathema if there was a game with NES level complexity to enjoy on the 7800. Atari just gave the 7800 a lot of ports because no one was left with the creative ideas to put onto the console. It was the cheap and easy route to go, unfortunately too cheap at times which gives us this effort to fix the games now. I don't have a problem with that at all. But like I had mentioned, we have a really good idea of how the 7800 can handle arcade ports now, moreso thanks to homebrews. I just don't think we need to have every single arcade game released from 1977-1984 ported to know.The 7800 and NES were contemporaries and the NES had more arcade ports than the 7800 did but that is not always the main reason people remember the NES. Those ports were only truly beneficial back in the late 80s. At this point for current developments, I look forward to seeing more exploration of other game types that aren't carbon copy type ports. Like Drac mentioned above, I imagine that if Atari was the same 800-lb gorilla in 1987 that it was in 1982 that we would have received more games like Midnight Mutants at that time instead of in 1990.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Shaggy the Atarian

[The Usotsuki]

Well, so far as Adventure goes, how about Robot Odyssey? Though Robinett didn't write it, it was based on his engine and it even has a Warren Robinett room. Though, it really needs more than one button.

[+SabertoothRetro]

If we're talking about updates to existing 7800 games, I'd like to see something closer to the SEGA arcade/SMS version of Choplifter. Joust 2 could be good using Joust as a source. I've always thought that Joust 2 was an under-appreciated game.

 

As for new games, an RPG a la Dragon Warrior or a beat-em up like Golden Ax, Rastan or Altered Beast would be cool.

[KevinMos3]

I'm still plugging away at this. Redid the title screen again yesterday and added more building designs. I've got a long way to go on George's sprites and haven't even touched Lizzie or Ralph yet. The character sprites are the most challenging.

 

Here's what's done so far:

• New title screen (again),
• New building designs (again),
• New ground in train and water stages,
• New broken windows,
• New dust cloud,
• New building crumble,
• Some new enemy sprites,
• Item edits,
• George walking animation

Rampage_Edit_00.png 0294.png 0299.png

 

If anyone would like to help with the character sprites, I've put together a sheet to help see how they align (or don't align). As you can see, some of them align a little odd which was causing a lot of difficulty in aligning new sprites, before I put this together. Also, the punching arm/fist actually overlaps the main body sprites. The same thing goes for Lizzie's tail... it overlaps the main body sprite. Other than Lizzie's tail, the other characters are exactly the same as George. The lighter background is the boundary for each sprite. I left a 1 pixel space between them for visual cues. Each sprite is numbered to show when it is used in multiple cases. There are a few superfluous combinations I didn't include.

 

The ideal way would be if someone with the skill were to edit the alignment tables for the sprites. This is beyond my ability, so unless someone volunteers, we'll just have to work within the current alignment/layout of the existing character sprites. Even so, we can still make them look much better, IMO.

 

George Sprite Layout.png

 

(I still don't want to upload the ROM until I have more done on the character sprites... but hopefully, soon)

 

Yep, I just quoted myself.

 

I'm back to working on this. It's been a few months since I've had time to work on any projects -- and it's just as well, because I was getting very discouraged with the character sprites. I'm currently re-acquainting myself with what I was doing last. It looks like I updated the title screen again since my last post and after tossing out my work on George due to the way he punches, I'm now redoing him in a way I hope will work (thanks to an idea from Marco).

 

 

Also, I'd forgotten that I updated the sprites for Donkey Kong Junior. Although, I think there were still more changes I intended to make, so I need to refresh on that one too and get it uploaded.

Edited August 23, 2014 by KevinMos3

[Prosystemsearch]

DonKey Kong Jr. With POKEY sound, POKEY Mario brothers, Zaxxon, and NARC(POKEY Sound pls)

[Lynxpro]

Impossible Mission but using POKEY audio and adding some really cool music to it like Poison's [not the 80s hair metal band] "Cyber King is Back":

 

http://www.atarimusic.net/component/muscol/P/53-poison/64-cyber-city-remastered-2k13

 

Actually, asking for the talented POKEY musicians over at AtariMusic to donate their music to home-brews would be killer [if they agreed]...

[KevinMos3]

Here's the Donkey Kong Junior hack I mentioned earlier. I edited the sprites and tweaked the colors. I tried to get it a little closer to the arcade without being too literal with the colors. I also gave it a thread in the 7800 hacks forum.

 

Donkey Kong Jr (Hack).a78

Donkey Kong Jr (Hack).bin

 

[tep392]

Here's the Donkey Kong Junior hack I mentioned earlier. I edited the sprites and tweaked the colors. I tried to get it a little closer to the arcade without being too literal with the colors. I also gave it a thread in the 7800 hacks forum.

 

 

Bravo!

[Trebor]

Kevin,

 

Fantastic work as always. Playing through with these improved colors and sprites was great and very much appreciated.

 

I don't believe anything can be done about the following issue though (without writing new/changing collision detection code) but...Now that Jr. is less 'blobby', unfortunately, it's hard to gauge what exactly constitutes a hit with fallen objects at times.

 

Here's the dropping egg. Notice how the egg has not (appear to) touch Junior yet, but it detected a hit:

 

 

 

 

[KevinMos3]

Thanks guys! I'm glad you like it. As always, if anyone has better sprites, feel free to submit them. Also, if anyone would like to use any of this for a pokey version... please be my guest!

 

edit: Even though I played this game a ton growing up – until doing this hack, I never knew you could press jump as you landed on the spring to directly reach the moving platform above!

I don't believe anything can be done about the following issue though (without writing new/changing collision detection code) but...Now that Jr. is less 'blobby', unfortunately, it's hard to gauge what exactly constitutes a hit with fallen objects at times.

Here's the dropping egg. Notice how the egg has not (appear to) touch Junior yet, but it detected a hit:

Yes, it's the same with the original. It seems to be a rather large hit box the collision detection uses.


It makes sense though, because if you flip DK Junior around (using exactly the same horizontal placement of the sprite), you can see that he actually is being hit.


Here's an approximation of the hit box. It may be a little more forgiving than where I outlined, but you get the idea:

-- All screenshots from the original version --

Edited August 24, 2014 by KevinMos3