That Guy Who Lied About High Scores

[Stan]

God this is escaping me at the moment. There was some guy who was known for his high scores back in the day, and was later found via emulator and checking code or something to have lied about his high scores, I believe for certain Activision games. Who was he? I cannot remember. I think he may have even been in the Guinness Book of World Records at one time.

[NIKON]

Todd Rogers

[moycon]

Wow seriously? I didn't hear about that!

 

I did know he had a bunch of crazy high scores (or low times) on games.

[+batari]

Wait, Todd Rogers lied? Any reference to that?

[moycon]

It's news to me. I did find an old thread from this year that has some information that seems to cast doubts that some of the scores could be possible...

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/210672-cosmic-ark-champion-video-footage-todd-rogers/

 

We played Fathom in the HSC one time and the moderator always liked to post the top three TG scores. Todd Rogers had some crazy score in excess of 1,000,000! Turns out the games actually ENDs when you beat all the levels. A perfect score is likely somewhere in the low 30k's if someone could fly through the maps at top speed and make zero mistakes. A score of over 1M is so high above any possible theoretical score that one must laugh.

 

Also,

 

The game was Barnstorming...someone hacked the game to remove the enemies and did a straight run through and could not achieve the score that was claimed by Todd Rogers.

 

Of course maybe Todd found out some glitches or bugs in the game that allowed him to get higher scores than people thought possible? No clue.

[Stan]

That's it! I knew someone discussed it in the HSC, but I couldn't find it. I don't know if it's been "proven" per se, now that I remember this, but a number of people were discussing the issue, apparently some of his scores from Twin Galaxies were negated and/or removed, and he resigned.

[+Random Terrain]

Here's what I could find by Googling:

 

http://www.paunchstevenson.com/2013/02/17/episode-213/

 

http://www.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=89222

Firebrandx said on Thursday, November 15, 2012 - 01:57:34 PM:

 

I seem to recall Walter Day had sold the rights to TG a couple years back. I used to work for TG some years ago, but hated it. My brother I and were constantly having to fight with what I call "the old guard" comprised of record holders from the early 80's. First, they resisted every one of our innovative new ideas like speed-gaming records for consoles, and then later we discovered a lot of the records from the '80s were bogus because video proof was not required back then. The worst was "Mr. Activision" (aka Todd Rogers), where I and several others were able to prepare a case and conclusively prove Todd had been completely fabricating world records for various Atari games. To name a few:

Barnstorming (2600): Todd's record, which stood for many years, was proven to be impossible once we broke down the game code and stripped the stage of any obstacles. With the stage completely blank, flying a straight line to the finish was slower than Todd's record. When we presented this evidence, we were attacked by fans and supporters of Todd, and eventually an excuse was cooked up that I lovingly refer to as "the coffee stain excuse". Yes, after being attacked and told we were clueless about how good Todd was, one of the referees covered for him and claimed the 'document' detailing his record had a coffee stain on the part where the record time was listed. Instead of throwing the record out and forcing Todd to do a legit one on video tape, they just simply adjusted the record to be MAYBE possible by adding a half-second to the time.

Sky Jinx (2600): Todd's record time for this game also proved to be bogus, and I showed how it was physically impossible when a modified version of the stage that required only 10 banks instead of 16 showed the plane always came in slower than Todd's record.

Donkey Kong (2600): Todd's record was entered as 15 million. I immediately suspected it was bogus, since the best results from professionals at the game were well under 1 million. I protested the record and Todd claimed there were full video tapes documenting the marathon session. One of the refs (the same one that came up with the coffee stain excuse) claimed indeed there was a set of tapes. I asked one of the lead referees to investigate and verify these supposed tapes of the records. After several months, the lead ref concluded the tapes never existed and removed Todd's record from the database.

Who knows how many records were fudged back before more strict requirements got put in place. After a while of constantly banging heads with the often corrupt "old guard", my brother and I both had enough and quit TG entirely. Eventually the one lead referee we could trust at the time also quit, and that was a major loss for the site.

 

[+cvga]

I think he was able to achieve those scores but he was on steroids at the time.

[+Nathan Strum]

Twin Galaxies was an interesting relic from the good ol' days, but I wouldn't trust any of the scores in their book (or website) any further than I could throw a Pac-Man machine. The anecdotes in the book were fun to read, but that's as much credit as I'm willing to give them.

 

And as an aside, I don't think emulator scores should ever (and I repeat for emphasis - ever) be allowed for record attempts. Original, verified, unmodified hardware only. If you can't bother yourself to get someplace that has the original game, you've got no business claiming to be able to set any sort of a record on it.

[AtariDude]

The question becomes what will be done when arcade hardware is no longer working due to age. Will those scores be considered permanent and no longer allowed to be altered? Will they create a separate category for high scores produced through an emulator? Perhaps they can standardize on an emulator to use for this (Mame comes into mind) and then come up with some sort of ROM certification. Probably not going to happen though.

[+Nathan Strum]

I would think if the machines are no longer available or repairable, then no more scores would be accepted. Given how long the machines have been kept running though, I suspect it will be quite some years before they become truly inoperable.

 

The problem with emulation as I see it, is twofold:

1. It's imperfect. You are emulating circuitry - not using the original hardware. They never stop improving/tweaking MAME, and probably never will. Also, the hardware people run it on varies wildly and changes over time. As emulation gets more precise, it requires faster CPUs to run it on. At what point would they "freeze" an emulator so the playing field was absolutely level for everyone for perpetuity? And unless they were using certified computers running standardized emulators at sanctioned events, you always run the risk of someone cheating.
2. It's usually nothing like the original experience. Playing on an emulator with a keyboard, or some third-party controller, or even a homemade MAME cabinet does not accurately and consistently replicate playing on the original game with the original controllers. A few notable examples: Paperboy, Marble Madness, I, Robot, Battlezone, Spy Hunter, Lunar Lander, Tempest, Tron, and so forth. Even controls which are easily reproducible (such as Asteroids) don't replicate the experience of standing in front of a vector monitor in a big particle board cabinet, with that "thump thump thump" sound pounding away. It's all part of the gameplay experience, and if it can't be consistent from player to player, then the playing field isn't level, and the records shouldn't be considered valid.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Nathan Strum

[BSA Starfire]

100% agree with Nathan on his above comment.

[oldskoolgaymer]

Ditto. I play on emulators a lot, but when it comes to my personal high scores, I tend not to count them unless I get them on the original system (or, in some cases, a compilation disc like Midway Arcade Treasures, Namco Museum, etc).

[Stan]

Those are reasons why I loathe emulation in high-score competitions. And hardware dying? Come on man, this stuff is going to last a LOT longer than you think.

[Atarian7]

I believe a lot of Todd Rogers scores are correct but there were some that just weren't possible.

 

I challenged his game 1 to 3 skiing times. I even offered a bounty if he could do it again on tape or anyone else for that matter. As far as his 4 to 10 game times, I believe those to be true except possibly one. I forget if it's game 6 or 7. I know the others are possible because of the times I achieved and I never had a perfect run on those 4 to 10.

 

I also know his Grand Prix game 1 record to be false. (or it was false if they changed it already) When you are a little faster in the beginning and

middle it adds an extra car at the end which increases your time to avoid it.

 

There might be other timed games that are incorrect too.

 

 

 

 

[accousticguitar]

If some of his records are proven to be false then why would any of them be accepted without proof of their legitimacy?

[AtariDude]

I guess not or ought people raised a fuss when it was discovered that the scores were not obtainable.

[Hyperboy]

 

Damn if these guys don't look alike.

Sorry about my crappy photoshop skills..

Edited September 26, 2013 by Hyperboy

[AtariDude]

Wow....they were both male type organs....but for different reasons.

[moycon]

I challenged his game 1 to 3 skiing times. I even offered a bounty if he could do it again on tape or anyone else for that matter. As far as his 4 to 10 game times, I believe those to be true except possibly one. I forget if it's game 6 or 7. I know the others are possible because of the times I achieved and I never had a perfect run on those 4 to 10.

If you feel he cheated on games 1 - 3 and 6 or 7, why would you assume he would be honest about other game variations on the cart?

So he made up possible numbers on certain game game variations, and totally blew it on 1 -3 and 6 or 7 is what I would be thinking.

I'll admit I never cared much about high scores but I did know Twin Galaxies was supposedly the site to go to check the archive.

This thread has convinced me not to bother to send people who are interested in that stuff their way.

[+Random Terrain]

Back when video proof was not required, I assumed that official high scores were achieved in front of a trusted team of video game referees.

 

Video Game Cheater: "Hey dude, I just got 20 bazillion on Pooping Aliens."

 

Score Keeper: "Congratulations! You're the new record holder!"

 

Video Game Cheater: "You don't need proof? Not even a photograph of the screen?"

 

Score Keeper: "No."

 

Video Game Cheater: "OK, I got 20 bazillion on every video game I've ever played."

 

Score Keeper: "Congratulations! Just send in a list of all of the video games you have played and I'll update our database."

[AtariDude]

Conversation from the early 1980s

 

Video Game Cheater I just scored a bazillion points on Halo!

 

Scorer Congratulations! You are now the official world record holder....hmmmmm...wait a minute....There is no such game as Halo?

 

Video Game Cheater Yeah but it is going to exist in the future and I will score a bazillion points on it when it is released in the future so put me down

 

Scorer Ok. I will take your word for it since you seem trust worthy.

[Mxyzptlk]

If some of his records are proven to be false then why would any of them be accepted without proof of their legitimacy?

I think it is because T.G. was biased to certain players like Mitchell and Rogers. I am not bragging when I say I am good at video games, and I can't come close to most of Roger's scores that I have tried to beat. I guess some folks have zero integrity. I would not be surprised if all of Todd's scores were phony.

[bennybingo]

Let's face it guys...I hate to say it, but the dude currently lives in a trailer park with his pet tarantulas (according to one of those 80's video game documentaries). That is what all of the bogus high score glory got him.

 

Maybe if he was telling the truth, and he was really a video game prodigy, insane videos of his marathon game sessions would exist. If so, his legendary status may have taken him further, but somehow I doubt it. For most of us, a high score is something to be introspectively happy about or to have some boasting rights amongst friends. It's not like anyone out there is currently hiring based on your 80's video game skills...

 

 

[Mxyzptlk]

Let's face it guys...I hate to say it, but the dude currently lives in a trailer park with his pet tarantulas (according to one of those 80's video game documentaries). That is what all of the bogus high score glory got him.

 

Maybe if he was telling the truth, and he was really a video game prodigy, insane videos of his marathon game sessions would exist. If so, his legendary status may have taken him further, but somehow I doubt it. For most of us, a high score is something to be introspectively happy about or to have some boasting rights amongst friends. It's not like anyone out there is currently hiring based on your 80's video game skills...

 

thelaststarfighter01.jpg

 

Do you have any links to any vids. on him? I have looked around a bit and only found a couple of things on youtube.