+intvsteve Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Well, I can say that at least around 10 years ago you could still by Intellivision cartridge ports. IIRC it was just a pretty standard edge connector. In fact, this is the exact part I bought (though I don't recall getting 10 of them!) http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EZC22DRAS/S1221-ND/44209 EDIT: D'oh! Not in stock! Maybe there is something to that rumor then. EDIT II: You could always check eBay, and backtrack to getting in quantities, I bet:http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=22+pin+connector&_osacat=0&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.X22+pin+edge+connector&_nkw=22+pin+edge+connector&_sacat=0&_from=R40 Edited January 17, 2014 by intvsteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) So double sided, 22 pin connector that takes a 0.062" (1.57 mm) cartridge with 0.1" (2.54 mm) pitch. If you click the link, Digi-Key has a RoHS compliant replacement from the same manufacturer and same physical features. You can buy one for $7.96 or 100 for $6.17 each. Indeed there might be an issue about price, when you add R&D costs and required circuitry to use the connector, the price might have increased by at least $15-20 which might be a bit too much for most casual buyers, in particular for a multi-format device that mainly caters towards post-NES systems. Edit: Much cheaper from Taiwan, a pack of 10 connectors that I believe are compatible for $7.50 + postage. Edited January 17, 2014 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 There's no technical reason why there can't be an SD slot, and it's certainly something on the table for future products, but right now it has to be released with only the built-in games. The Intellivision selection is far more robust than the ColecoVision selection, but I don't think fans will be disappointed with either. Naturally, the obvious ones, like anything from Nintendo, will be missing. I agree. I didn't explain myself properly. Curt Vendel and Jeri Ellsworth actively made their products with enthusiast modding in mind - sometimes to the detriment of their relationship with the manufacturer. So far no one further has been such an advocate for the retro gaming community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't think the Ellsworth and Vendel designs caused any sour relationships with the manufacturer per se, I think these days it's more of a cost issue. Doing emulation (outside of most of the Sega stuff) for these products is probably far more cost effective and close enough to the original for the target audience. After all, these are mass market products, which, when on sale, sell for $30. Every penny counts. As for a cartridge port, I think a big factor in it not being included in the vast majority of products is that the target market for that is relatively small, and the potential issues are relatively large. You know, stuff like why doesn't cartridge x work, or if someone buys a dusty old cartridge at a flea market and that not working, etc. It's probably not worth the potential support issues, real or imagined. Again, Sega is super progressive in this regard, having no problem with either cartridge ports or SD card slots. You have to give them LOTS of credit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 So perhaps the old saying still holds water, that Sega does what Ninten don't (and some others as well). How much more expensive would it be to equip a such device with Bluetooth? Then some hobbyist could develop a cartridge reader that communicates through Bluetooth, perhaps also useful with emulators on tablets etc that would support it. Obviously I'm just imagining right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 As for cartridge ports, at one place I read about the competing Retron 5 that one of the reasons why it doesn't handle any Atari, ColecoVision, IntelliVision etc is that they were unable to source cartridge connectors?!? I may have misunderstood that or it was just a poor excuse, as I would imagine most of the pre-NES consoles actually have cartridge ports with pin fingering and spacing relative to industry standards, although different amounts of pins. Does anyone have a brief insight in that? When it comes to legal issues, a cartridge port seems much more "safe" than both a ROM with buit-in games and memory card slots for adding your own games. I had an opportunity to talk to some of the Retcon 5 staff at SRGE a few months ago and asked them if they planned to support Atari / ColecoVision / Intellivision. They said 'no' and the reason was much more mundane than any technical reason. Simply put, they looked into it and didn't think they would sell enough units to justify their development costs. They figured that such a Retcon would sell reasonably well at a retro gaming expo, but not sell well outside of such events. That said, they were keeping an eye on things to see if anything changes their assessment. Obviously, the Flashback folks disagree with this assessment, though they are building a different animal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 People buy up those x-to-SNES adapters even though they have that retarded extra audio/video cable that you must use. Perhaps that would be more economically viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarifan88 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there new progress to report on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Is there new progress to report on this? Nothing much. Both the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks will use removable wired controllers that will replicate the look and functionality of the originals, including overlays. That includes all 16 positions for the Intellivision disc. I still haven't tried any actual hardware, though. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Any word on the AV connectors? I am guessing they are going to use the typical 1 composite video jack and 2 RCA jacks for audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Any word on the AV connectors? I am guessing they are going to use the typical 1 composite video jack and 2 RCA jacks for audio. I did not get specifics yet, but I suspect it will be the same, yes. I too would like to see them switch to HDMI, if not this year, then for next year's products. We'll see, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intvsteve Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Nothing much. Both the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks will use removable wired controllers that will replicate the look and functionality of the originals, including overlays. That includes all 16 positions for the Intellivision disc. I still haven't tried any actual hardware, though. That sounds fabulous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenJ Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Bill, I appreciate the updates. StephenJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar G. Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thanks for the update. Removable controllers with 16 positions. Sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well, I can say that at least around 10 years ago you could still by Intellivision cartridge ports. IIRC it was just a pretty standard edge connector. In fact, this is the exact part I bought (though I don't recall getting 10 of them!) http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/EZC22DRAS/S1221-ND/44209 EDIT: D'oh! Not in stock! Maybe there is something to that rumor then. I'm sorry, but I'm not letting them have my stash... More to the point: Since they seem to be going with their own emulation technology, it seems more likely that they'd want to limit the scope so that they can be sure everything works well. When the set of games you're expected to work with is finite, then that's all you need to QC. If you need to work with any possible game, that's a much higher hurdle to clear. Also, an emulator can take other short cuts, like not emulating bus cycles, or even completely accurately emulating the cycle behavior of the Intellivision. You can do things like executing the next few milliseconds of CPU and sound emulation as fast as possible, and then go emulate graphics. If you want to emulate bus cycles properly, you're really forced to go at a more cycle-by-cycle pace, since the old cartridges are only guaranteed to keep up with the old Intellivision execution rate. Either that, or build what amounts to a cartridge dumper that first tries to suck the entire cartridge into RAM somewhere, and then emulate from that. But, depending on the architecture of the board, it may require adding more RAM to the design. It certainly adds complexity and risk. It's unclear that it would add enough to the bottom line to be worth it. That's with my engineer / engineering manager hat on. :-) It's a very boring and occasionally annoying hat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 In this case, that is true. A small number of games will not be included due to incompatibilities. They'll be worked on for the next version of the product (if there is one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorTom Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Nothing much. Both the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks will use removable wired controllers that will replicate the look and functionality of the originals, including overlays. That includes all 16 positions for the Intellivision disc. I still haven't tried any actual hardware, though. This seems to me to be the only bad news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 This seems to me to be the only bad news. Tom Hates Intellivision Controllers! I'm guessing by the way it is phrased that they will not be compatible with the original HW? While the disdain for the design has some merit, the world simply needs a round of these built to augment the aging controllers from yesteryear. I'll definitely get this and the wired controllers will be a big reason why. If they aren't directly compatible then it might allow for some new hack projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Tom Hates Intellivision Controllers! I'm guessing by the way it is phrased that they will not be compatible with the original HW? While the disdain for the design has some merit, the world simply needs a round of these built to augment the aging controllers from yesteryear. I'll definitely get this and the wired controllers will be a big reason why. If they aren't directly compatible then it might allow for some new hack projects. Like most of the Atari Flashback's controllers, the ColecoVision and Intellivision Flashbacks controllers should work fine on original hardware. Naturally, on the Intellivision side you're only talking the Intellivision II and some of the third party consoles without modification. When I get test hardware, I'll check the controllers on original systems and we'll know for sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wongojack Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Like most of the Atari Flashback's controllers, the ColecoVision and Intellivision Flashbacks controllers should work fine on original hardware. Naturally, on the Intellivision side you're only talking the Intellivision II and some of the third party consoles without modification. When I get test hardware, I'll check the controllers on original systems and we'll know for sure. Awesome - thanks Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Very interesting. If it has good controllers, it may turn out decent after all. Good for newcomers. I will pick one up anyway, but I still have my cc3 and original console! I wonder if it will have any 'new' games or remix of old ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Very interesting. If it has good controllers, it may turn out decent after all. Good for newcomers. I will pick one up anyway, but I still have my cc3 and original console! I wonder if it will have any 'new' games or remix of old ones... For this go round it will have most original retail games (sans some licensing, obviously, and of course the titles that the license can't be stripped from) and no homebrews. A select few games have been found incompatible and will not be included in this version, though that and the inclusion of homebrews is planned for the next version. Naturally, there will be no KC or ECS stuff, either, since it lacks a keyboard of any type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lathe26 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Like most of the Atari Flashback's controllers, the ColecoVision and Intellivision Flashbacks controllers should work fine on original hardware. Naturally, on the Intellivision side you're only talking the Intellivision II and some of the third party consoles without modification. When I get test hardware, I'll check the controllers on original systems and we'll know for sure. I'm am hoping for the quality and feel of the Intellivision I controllers in addition to the mentioned detactability of the Intellivision II controllers (i.e. similar to the Sears controllers). If it does, there will be some extra purchases by collectors who want to upgrade their Intellivision II & ECS gameplay. Side note: I really don't like the Intellivision II controllers. The keypad a lousy, the side buttons are stiff, the edges of the controller's case are sharp and uncomfortable, and the whole thing feel creaky and flimsy. I'm pretty sure that the upcoming Flashback will be better than those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intvsteve Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Like most of the Atari Flashback's controllers, the ColecoVision and Intellivision Flashbacks controllers should work fine on original hardware. Naturally, on the Intellivision side you're only talking the Intellivision II and some of the third party consoles without modification. When I get test hardware, I'll check the controllers on original systems and we'll know for sure. That would be awesome! In fact, I wonder how many Intellivision fans will buy a few extras of these just for those controllers, should the prove drop-in compatible. A DB-9 to simple inline 9-pin 0.1" header isn't very hard to wire up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Believe me, I'm no fan of the Intellivision II controllers and made the minuses of that design well known to them. The Intellivision I controllers (and the ones from third party consoles) are clearly superior. Luckily, that's the one they're modeling it after. I'll be very curious what "modern touches," if any, they've implemented. For instance, with the Atari Flashback 3 and 4, they made the joysticks a bit looser, which I think is better for modern hands. As we all know, though, the Intellivision controllers are truly unique beasts, so I'm only cautiously optimistic about how well it will be replicated, let alone improved. They certainly look the part from what I've seen, but again, I haven't held/used them yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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