Breaking news: Intellivision flashback coming to retail

[Rev]

Donkey kong was a king kong clone.

 

[freewheel]

 

I think Nintendo stays quiet as long as it's this small homebrew market.

There are so many ports for all kinds of retro consoles and computers of Nintendo games.Last week was just a new donkey Kong Jr. for the C64 released. I never heard that someone got sued by Nintendo.

 

As I said earlier, I suspect Nintendo is more in the dark than they are tolerant. Maybe willfully in the dark

 

This is the company that used to sue people for distributing, for free, a single ROM image of a 20 year old game. This is also the company that made some pretty serious threats towards *emulator* authors - people who weren't even touching any of Nintendo's IP. Hell, Nintendo in the not very distant past has threatened people simply for *linking* to emulators and game copying devices.

 

When I first saw the boxes and gameplay for DK Arcade and its sequel, I was stunned at a) how good the quality was, and b) how audacious it was to release this commercially. I have difficulty believing that this community needs to implement DRM and licensing schemes for essentially abandoned properties such as Defender of the Crown, Kroz, and Boulder Dash, but a Mario game is perfectly legal to just put out as is without anyone's permission Hell, they even use the name Mario in the manual, if memory serves. I think this was more a case of "don't ask, don't tell" than anything.

[freewheel]

Donkey kong was a king kong clone.

 

 

Yup, and Nintendo got sued for it. The only reason they still exist as a fiscally solvent game company (given that this was their big game at the time) is that Universal had essentially put King Kong in the public domain. By the legal standards of the early 80s anyway - try this today and you'll be in the ground before you know it.

 

It's probably one of the reasons Nintendo is so protective of their IP - they don't want someone ever attempting a Universal v Nintendo on them.

Edited November 14, 2014 by freeweed

[Games For Your Intellivision]

 

As I said earlier, I suspect Nintendo is more in the dark than they are tolerant. Maybe willfully in the dark

 

This is the company that used to sue people for distributing, for free, a single ROM image of a 20 year old game. This is also the company that made some pretty serious threats towards *emulator* authors - people who weren't even touching any of Nintendo's IP. Hell, Nintendo in the not very distant past has threatened people simply for *linking* to emulators and game copying devices.

 

When I first saw the boxes and gameplay for DK Arcade and its sequel, I was stunned at a) how good the quality was, and b) how audacious it was to release this commercially. I have difficulty believing that this community needs to implement DRM and licensing schemes for essentially abandoned properties such as Defender of the Crown, Kroz, and Boulder Dash, but a Mario game is perfectly legal to just put out as is without anyone's permission Hell, they even use the name Mario in the manual, if memory serves. I think this was more a case of "don't ask, don't tell" than anything.

 

I'd like to clarify a few things about the direction that my company has taken regarding intellectual property.

 

There is no 'rulebook' for what you can and cannot do in publishing games. Despite this we have changed the way we 'play the game'.

 

When we first started making games we looked at games like Space Patrol (Moon Patrol), 4Tris (Tetris) and felt that DK Arcade with a name change was no different. Other games such as Stonix had very similar game play to another popular title (Arkanoid). And, still other games have been very Pac Man like....certainly as 'Pac Man like' as Jawbreaker was in the early 80s when it landed them in court. We felt things had changed a bit and our release would be 'ok'. Was it any more 'audacious' for us to release DK Arcade or D2K Arcade compared to the release of Space Patrol? We don't think so. But, obviously, people react differently to our title than others. So be it. We've discontinued the game.

 

Regarding D2K Arcade. This was based on an arcade game that was a sequel (hack?) of Donkey Kong that was tacitly approved by Nintendo. None of the 5 'D2K' screens were created by them. Two of them were copied from the arcade game with approval of Jeff K. who did the arcade game. He was in contact with Nintendo, tried to get the game approved and from my understanding it 'almost' happened, but so far nothing is official. No cease and desist orders came in. We got permission from Jeff K. to do D2K. He even did the art for the box.

 

However, since people have been questioning the legitimacy of the game it too has been discontinued. The decision was made much easier due to the mistake of including D1K in the game as a 'bonus'. We are too small to stand up to a legal challenge if one came. Even if we 'won' we would 'lose'. Any Rom sales have been and are the sole responsibility of the author of the game. We have nothing to do with it.

 

Ok, lesson learned. We aren't going to do a clone with simply a name change for any title in the future. D1K and D2K Arcade are discontinued.

 

However, this has nothing to do with all of our other titles that we are 'doing right'.

 

I'd like to correct you on something. Boulder Dash® is NOT an abandoned property. Nor is Kroz nor Defender of the Crown.

 

Boulder Dash is NOT a 'licensed' game. It is being co-published by First Star Software, Inc. and my company Classic Game Publishers, Inc. Call it what you want, it is a moot point. It isn't 'homebrew' nor is it 'abandoned'. Digital releases are the call of First Star Software. They have approved a protected digital release of Boulder Dash®. Without LTO Flash! it wouldn't have happened.

 

Defender of the Crown is not an abandoned property either. It is being legitimately done. Slower than we would like but work is continuing. Cinemaware exists and is selling DOTC on other platforms.

 

Kroz as well is a legitimate title that is done with the approval of the creator of the franchise.

 

The rest of our titles and ones in the future will either be fully licensed or original. We really wanted to publish Ms. Pac Man. We tried twice and were told no twice by Namco. It is coming out anyway. We however, won't be taking the risk for it.

 

When talking to ATGames, I asked them if they could get the rights to Donkey Kong for the Intellivision. They said no. If they do, DK Arcade and/or D2K Arcade would make a fine addition to a future flashback.

 

It is up to First Star Software and ATGames to make a deal with Boulder Dash® in a future flashback. When it is done we hope to see it happen but we have nothing to do with whether it does or not make it on to a future flashback.

[pimpmaul69]

 

Yup, and Nintendo got sued for it. The only reason they still exist as a fiscally solvent game company (given that this was their big game at the time) is that Universal had essentially put King Kong in the public domain. By the legal standards of the early 80s anyway - try this today and you'll be in the ground before you know it.

 

It's probably one of the reasons Nintendo is so protective of their IP - they don't want someone ever attempting a Universal v Nintendo on them.

nintendo took universal to the cleaners. They got the $56,689 dollars universal made in royalties from the tiger electronics king kong handheld game and awarded 1.8 million in legal fees. That might not sound like much but when you add inflation its pretty good amount. Yes nintendo has sued over things like the dr 64, the c64 and other software pirating hardware like the gameboy and nintendo ds flash cards, but i havent heard of a case of them going after someone for a clone of the game on outdated hardware that in no way affects their business. Money wise they would probably lose more money trying to sue than they would get out of it.

[freewheel]

 

I'd like to clarify a few things about the direction that my company has taken regarding intellectual property.

 

*snip*

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to speak for you in any way, shape or form. And I wasn't involved in a single discussion any of you had from a legal perspective. What I'm basing my comments on is 20+ years of observation of IP law in theory and in practice.

 

I don't care who you got permission from, D2K would get you in serious hot water if Nintendo even looked in your direction. Nintendo Corp owns a trademark on Mario. Quite likely the name and most certainly the likeness. It is literally their bread and butter. Same goes for Donkey Kong himself to a slightly smaller degree. I do not own the game nor have I played it, but from what I can tell the cover is a direct infringement, the intro screen is a direct infringement, and the Mario sprite in the game most certainly is as well. The level design is irrelevant as I doubt they copyrighted those (but who knows). And gameplay mechanics cannot be copyrighted - unless you make such a complete and utter rip-off. In a nutshell: simply because you have not received a C&D does not in any make it "legal".

 

Now - I am not questioning the legitimacy of publishing it. I think it's fantastic, and my own personal views of IP law border on the radical. I think most IP should expire within 5-10 years, 25 at the absolute most, so in my opinion DK is more than public domain. I, personally, applaud you for doing it. However from a legal standpoint I can tell you flat out that Nintendo would have you for lunch if they so chose. I have friends who have been bankrupted for a heck of a lot less.

 

As far as DoTC and BD go - I said they were "essentially abandoned properties". Yes, some company owns the rights to them (and in once case it's actually the company that created the property, may wonders never cease). But it's not like there's an unbroken chain of releases over the years for these. Hell, I haven't seen either in a retail setting since the late 80s. At best there have been a couple of iPhone apps very recently released to capitalize on the current nostalgia trend. But they are nothing at all like Mario. Mario has led directly to Nintendo being a multi-billion dollar company. Boulder Dash made a few people somewhat well off, 30 years ago. It's night and day. However - both are protected by the exact same IP law, so my distinction is moot. If one is OK to clone, so is the other, and vice versa. And yes, I'm selling BD and First Star a bit short - there have been a few iterations of BD for handhelds over the years. But it still isn't 1/10th of 1% of the Mario market.

 

I wasn't trying to pass judgement on you, the company, or decisions made by either, and I apologize if I come off as preachy or know-it-all or judgmental. I just notice a very stark change in direction. One that saddens me greatly (because of my views on IP law) but one that I also completely understand (because of my understanding of IP law). If that makes sense.

[freewheel]

Yes nintendo has sued over things like the dr 64, the c64 and other software pirating hardware like the gameboy and nintendo ds flash cards, but i havent heard of a case of them going after someone for a clone of the game on outdated hardware that in no way affects their business.

 

You mean outdated hardware like the NES, years after it was being sold and yet years before they were re-releasing their games for newer platforms or the Virtual Console? You must not have been around during the early days of emulation. Nintendo went after hundreds if not thousands of people, many simply for *linking* to *emulators*, because of the *possibility* of piracy. They're one of the most strict protectors of their IP on the planet. Or at least were, as very few people are willing to risk bankruptcy over this stuff anymore.

[pimpmaul69]

 

You mean outdated hardware like the NES, years after it was being sold and yet years before they were re-releasing their games for newer platforms or the Virtual Console? You must not have been around during the early days of emulation. Nintendo went after hundreds if not thousands of people, many simply for *linking* to *emulators*, because of the *possibility* of piracy. They're one of the most strict protectors of their IP on the planet. Or at least were, as very few people are willing to risk bankruptcy over this stuff anymore.

not sure when all that was. In 99 was when i started. I started with the n64 emus. I was there for the release of ultrahle and ultra64. You can find my name in the credits of those two emulators (believe i used edmaul69 on the message board then)as i did a lot of compatability fixing for them back then. I did that for several years. Didnt start any other emus until about 2000. The only emu problem i remember so much about was sony repeatedly suing bleem! And repeatedly losing in court. Unfortunately they sued them so many times it bankrupted the small company. But yeah anything older than that i wasnt around for. But if i remember right even nes was in it infancy then. Guess i just didnt pay attention to fcnes and nesticle to realize they had legal issues.

Edit: i guess there was the thought of legal action could be taken with ultrahle so the authors had gone silent removing their names but nothing ever ended up happening to them or the emulator

Edited November 14, 2014 by pimpmaul69

[freewheel]

While there weren't a lot of high-profile lawsuits after the Bleem! case, there were a hell of a lot of C&Ds issued over the years. Nintendo (and a few others) basically pioneered the shotgun approach to IP enforcement that the RIAA eventually perfected.

 

In any event, the point stands that you won't see a Nintendo property on a FB anytime soon. If someone manages to do it, I'll be the first to shake their hand! However, I think we'll see a lot of other publishers' material show up first. Given that we don't even have friggin' Lock 'n Chase - we have a ways to go here

[+JasonlikesINTV]

I was at Bed Bath and Beyond and checked out the Flashback situation. No Intellivision or Coleco, but still wow!

 

 

[+Tarzilla]

Picked up one today from Bed Bath Beyond (used the 20 percent coupons,) along with the Colecovision version. I was very surprised by how hit or miss the video output is.

First tv I tried was a recent LG LCD 3d tv. Horrible flickering of certain colours.

 

Second tv was a 3 year old Samsung LCD. Image is solid, but black and white.

 

Next I tried a 6 year old Samsung LCD. Image is exactly as I would expect for video in, stable and nice colors.

 

I get the same results with both devices

 

Just for comparison, I hooked up my XBox first gen using video in and it works perfect on all 3 tvs

 

I'll try my Panasonic plasma later tonight. I wonder how many people will be returning these as not working with their tv?

[freewheel]

Tarzilla - wow does this sound like what people report with various composite video mods for the old consoles. I bet AtGames did something "interesting" with their hardware. You should try the old "run it through an old VCR" trick and see if it improves the picture

[pimpmaul69]

Picked up one today from Bed Bath Beyond (used the 20 percent coupons,) along with the Colecovision version. I was very surprised by how hit or miss the video output is.

First tv I tried was a recent LG LCD 3d tv. Horrible flickering of certain colours.

 

Second tv was a 3 year old Samsung LCD. Image is solid, but black and white.

 

Next I tried a 6 year old Samsung LCD. Image is exactly as I would expect for video in, stable and nice colors.

 

I get the same results with both devices

 

Just for comparison, I hooked up my XBox first gen using video in and it works perfect on all 3 tvs

 

I'll try my Panasonic plasma later tonight. I wonder how many people will be returning these as not working with their tv?

looked like distorted crap on my 50" insignia plasma tv Edited November 17, 2014 by pimpmaul69

[Greg2600]

Man, I've checked a couple Walmarts and a Sam's Club locally, no Flashback's. I live in the most densely populated area in the country, and Walmart/Sam's have yet to carry them.

[Robert Sublett]

If we do get a second flashback a couple hardware enhancements I would like to see. First. a way to reset the unit from the controller, and then a way to start some of the games w/o the second controller, ie Auto Racing and SP Basketball. And please fix the sound.

[Robert Sublett]

By the way, who owns copyright on Mission X. It would seem a no brainer for a Flashback.

[Intymike]

By the way, who owns copyright on Mission X. It would seem a no brainer for a Flashback.

 

It's a Data East game like most of the licensed games from Mattel.

[daldude]

If we do get a second flashback a couple hardware enhancements I would like to see. First. a way to reset the unit from the controller, and then a way to start some of the games w/o the second controller, ie Auto Racing and SP Basketball. And please fix the sound.

If they added these features

 

a way to reset the unit from the controller, and then a way to start some of the games w/o the second controller,

 

the controllers would not be compatible with Intellivision 2 or Sears Super Video Arcade because Intellivision has no way to rest the system from the controller and they would have to ad some kind of extra button or buttons and you could not do some kind of button combination because it might conflict with some games that might happen to use that combination. With the CC3 to get back to the list of games you hold Clear on the controller and hit reset but if you just hit reset it resets back to the games title screen like if you had that particular game cartridge in the system.

[popsicle]

Well, after 2 months my Flashback has quit working. Turned it on today and got the startup picture, then after 2 seconds garbled, loud, distorted picture and sound. This happened a few more times after powering on and off, now I get absolutely nothing. Anyone else having issues?

[pimpmaul69]

Did you try unplugging the power supply and plugging back in? Or perhaps test the voltage on the power supply? Always good to test the easy stuff first

Edited November 20, 2014 by pimpmaul69

[popsicle]

Yes, and I tried different outlets and different inputs on different tvs too. Both the power adapter and unit are getting power (the LEDs are lit), but no audio or video signal at all.

[pimpmaul69]

Yes, and I tried different outlets and different inputs on different tvs too. Both the power adapter and unit are getting power (the LEDs are lit), but no audio or video signal at all.

ok. Then i would try to return it.

[scott9771]

ok im sure i missed some things, but i too have not found any flashbacks to look at. on family dollar list to email me when they come in. i see some orphan overlays a guy from uk is sellin on ebay. got me wonderin. do the games on flashback like the super pros, toer of doom, spiker, mud buggies etc COME with inserts? i dont want to pay this guy $15 a pair for them and wonderin if another perk for buyin a flashback. assuming i will ever find one. how the heck do some of u guys have this for so many months and i have yet to find one? need more info or to see one on shelf to even know if i want one of the danged things!..........scot

[+intvsteve]

The manual shows overlays from the old Psycho Stormtrooper Orphan Overlays set. The Flashbacks only come with overlays for 10 or 15 games (15 if you buy at Sam's Club).

 

Supposedly at some point the Intellivision Lives site (or whatever the site is listed on the FB) will be selling overlay sets for the entire collection of games.

[+evg2000]

ok im sure i missed some things, but i too have not found any flashbacks to look at. on family dollar list to email me when they come in. i see some orphan overlays a guy from uk is sellin on ebay. got me wonderin. do the games on flashback like the super pros, toer of doom, spiker, mud buggies etc COME with inserts? i dont want to pay this guy $15 a pair for them and wonderin if another perk for buyin a flashback. assuming i will ever find one. how the heck do some of u guys have this for so many months and i have yet to find one? need more info or to see one on shelf to even know if i want one of the danged things! ..........scot

DG online has them for sale now, and has had them for sale for a few weeks. Not sure why you can't get one?

http://www.dollargeneral.com/product/index.jsp?productId=43753786