So the NES did all these to save gaming?

[Jess Ragan]

1. That thing on the Select-A-Game machine looks more like four separate buttons rather than an integrated gamepad.

2. Support for the Vectrex was dropped in early 1984, before the NES was released here in the States.

3. Likewise, the ColecoVision was officially discontinued in 1985, most likely before the NES was released.

4. The SG-1000 was released in Japan, where the video game crash never happened (because the game companies there had restraint and weren't greedy corporate morons).

5. Are we seriously talking about the AdventureVision? This machine didn't even matter when the video game industry was *alive.* If you're using this as an example of a game system that proves the NES didn't revive the market, pick another example.

6. Casio PV-what now? Was this even released in the United States?

 

I'm sorry, you're just clutching at straws to make a very flawed point. The game industry was, at the very least, dormant in 1984, and the rising popularity of the NES in the latter half of the decade revived it. We can argue all day about whether or not it was a lucky fluke or whether another company could have brought the market back to life (judging from the 7800, it wouldn't have been Atari), but the fact remains that it was Nintendo that got Americans gaming again.

[ApolloBoy]

Maybe because I did not see that post but I have to keep up my attack everyone rep.

Fixed.

[xDragonWarrior]

1. That thing on the Select-A-Game machine looks more like four separate buttons rather than an integrated gamepad.

2. Support for the Vectrex was dropped in early 1984, before the NES was released here in the States.

3. Likewise, the ColecoVision was officially discontinued in 1985, most likely before the NES was released.

4. The SG-1000 was released in Japan, where the video game crash never happened (because the game companies there had restraint and weren't greedy corporate morons).

5. Are we seriously talking about the AdventureVision? This machine didn't even matter when the video game industry was *alive.* If you're using this as an example of a game system that proves the NES didn't revive the market, pick another example.

6. Casio PV-what now? Was this even released in the United States?

 

I'm sorry, you're just clutching at straws to make a very flawed point. The game industry was, at the very least, dormant in 1984, and the rising popularity of the NES in the latter half of the decade revived it. We can argue all day about whether or not it was a lucky fluke or whether another company could have brought the market back to life (judging from the 7800, it wouldn't have been Atari), but the fact remains that it was Nintendo that got Americans gaming again.

Like I said also, the Donkey Kong Game and watch had a integrated D-pad before the Nes came out.

[Jakandsig]

You're right. I have no idea what point you're trying to make. You asked questions, neglecting to mention you wanted links and references. I and several others answered point by point, and in several cases agreed with your assertions. You then claimed we were revisionists because we didn't give sources. So I provided references from the very same source you claimed Nintendo fanboys would use to argue against the Atari. If that source isn't also good enough to argue for other consoles, then why bring it up in the first place?

 

If a Nintendo fan comes here asking these questions out of genuine curiousity, rest assured people here will answer thoroughly and respectfully. If they take the tone you have taken, they'll get the same treatment you have.

I did not claim that at all, nobody seems to want to read whole posts here. That is what an average fanboy who believes the site would say, people don't post links and references here usually. period.

 

If I was say AGAIN as if you people are not slow enough, a fanboy of X system, and we are having a discussion, and you make statements, he will use a wikipedia link as a source, you say it's not true, he laughs because you posted nothing.

 

The issue with this is that you people post links before in other subjects, but on the same subjects many threads later, act like everyone already knows were those links are, or just straight up don't want to post links and think people would believe you.

[Jakandsig]

 

A lot of what people have stated so far, If you have played any games on a console before the Nes/Famicom you would know without needing facts(for instance games before the Famicom/Nes had no scrolling). for the Nes inventing the D-pad, the Donkey Kong Game and Watch and before that the Entex Select a game both had a D pad before the Nes . As for the Nes inventing side scrolling games,Defender(the first side scrolling shooter),Scramble,Haunted House, Jungle Hunt,Moon Patrol,Defender,Defender II/Stargate Chopper Command,Thrust,Vanguard,Marble Craze,Subterranea,,Mountain King,Jungle Hunt Road Runner Star Wars: TESB Barnstorming,Desert Falcon,Stampede, Pitfall, The Smurfs and others were side scrollers before the Nes came along.Also when the Famicom/Nes came out, there was still a Videogame market as the Casio PV-1000,7800, Vectrex, AdventureVision, Colecovision(etc) and the Sega SG-1000 (which coincidentally came out the same day as the Famicom) where already out and selling.There was still a videogame market, although it was very slim.

 

Here are pics so you can SEE proof and not READ it.

Once again, a lot of you are not reading the many posts I made in this thread, and in many i mean little. Like the post after this.

 

I mean do i really have to get a nintendo fanboy to join the forum or something to make my point any more clearer than it already is?

[Jakandsig]

Fixed.

No actually I was right, and my point was true, he posted wikipedia links and culd not read, like you can't.

[Jakandsig]

1. That thing on the Select-A-Game machine looks more like four separate buttons rather than an integrated gamepad.

2. Support for the Vectrex was dropped in early 1984, before the NES was released here in the States.

3. Likewise, the ColecoVision was officially discontinued in 1985, most likely before the NES was released.

4. The SG-1000 was released in Japan, where the video game crash never happened (because the game companies there had restraint and weren't greedy corporate morons).

5. Are we seriously talking about the AdventureVision? This machine didn't even matter when the video game industry was *alive.* If you're using this as an example of a game system that proves the NES didn't revive the market, pick another example.

6. Casio PV-what now? Was this even released in the United States?

 

I'm sorry, you're just clutching at straws to make a very flawed point. The game industry was, at the very least, dormant in 1984, and the rising popularity of the NES in the latter half of the decade revived it. We can argue all day about whether or not it was a lucky fluke or whether another company could have brought the market back to life (judging from the 7800, it wouldn't have been Atari), but the fact remains that it was Nintendo that got Americans gaming again.

Or maybe you guys could read this guys post which is entirely wrong and makes no sense. Maybe then you may actually post links that prove him wrong before he starts quoting wikipedia like every other argument outside this board.

[Seob]

Man, why are you so impossible? In other threads you started, you do the same thing, ask a question, people answer, you not liking the answer and then start pissing off the people trying to help.

PLEASE GROW UP. Try to communicate in a decent way, or please stop posting here.

[xDragonWarrior]

Once again, a lot of you are not reading the many posts I made in this thread, and in many i mean little. Like the post after this.

 

I mean do i really have to get a Nintendo fan boy to join the forum or something to make my point any more clearer than it already is?

OK here is my proof again:

Ultima II which came out in 1982 had Tile Based Graphics and all Intellivision games had Tile Based Graphics.See image below

 

When the Nes came out there was STILL a Videogame market as there were sill consoles and PC games being produced .

 

The Donkey Kong Game And Watch had a D-pad before the Nes. See image below

 

Defender and many other games had scrolling before the Nes came along.See image below

 

If this Is not enough proof to back up my claims then I don't know what Is.

Edited November 2, 2013 by xDragonWarrior

[RevEng]

Or maybe you guys could read this guys post which is entirely wrong and makes no sense. Maybe then you may actually post links that prove him wrong before he starts quoting wikipedia like every other argument outside this board.

 

Your initial post didn't ask for links to try and disprove people on other sites. You just stated "I wanted to know that if these accomplishments were indeed 100% true as many of you seem to not realize in earlier thread how the NES is the reason why video games in general still exist".

 

Next time, let me recommend you write "I wanted to know if you guys can provide links to sources to factually support or dismiss these popular NES claims" instead, rather than complain when people provide you what you asked for.

 

Many of your "facts" aren't, in fact, stated explicitly in your 3 linked articles. Can we get specific linked sources for each claim? It would help to check the veracity of these claims and provide counter sources.

[JamesD]

Customizable character sets are not the same as tile graphics. NES tiles are much larger and based in cart ROMs where customizable characters are smaller and must be downloaded to RAM. This may sound like I'm splitting hairs but you can almost instantly change tiles by pointing somewhere else in ROM or by switching ROM banks. The underlying technology is the same but the difference makes the NES tiles much more useful. I wouldn't call it a leap but it was an important step. Arcade games back to at least Space Invaders used custom character sets though they were fixed.

The Apple II does not have programmable characters or hardeware tile graphics. It's tile based graphics programs are all done with software rather than hardware but I'm sure it helped inspire ROM based tiles. I also believe levels made of graphics tiles pre-date Ultima but I think Ultima was the first that used them as a backdrop rather than walls.

[Jess Ragan]

Or maybe you guys could read this guys post which is entirely wrong and makes no sense. Maybe then you may actually post links that prove him wrong before he starts quoting wikipedia like every other argument outside this board.

What's wrong with the post? The Vectrex was discontinued in 1984, the ColecoVision in 1985. Those are facts, verified by Wikipedia. Check the site if you don't believe me. Or don't check it and live in your own fantasy world. You seem happier there.

[Osgeld]

nm

Edited November 3, 2013 by Osgeld

[BassGuitari]

I'm almost out of popcorn here.

[AtariLeaf]

I did not claim that at all, nobody seems to want to read whole posts here. That is what an average fanboy who believes the site would say, people don't post links and references here usually. period.

 

If I was say AGAIN as if you people are not slow enough, a fanboy of X system, and we are having a discussion, and you make statements, he will use a wikipedia link as a source, you say it's not true, he laughs because you posted nothing.

 

The issue with this is that you people post links before in other subjects, but on the same subjects many threads later, act like everyone already knows were those links are, or just straight up don't want to post links and think people would believe you.

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

I mean do i really have to get a nintendo fanboy to join the forum or something to make my point any more clearer than it already is?

I am a hardcore Nintenco fanboy. I own every Nintendo system ever made with the exception of Virtual Boy. I started NES collecting in 2002 but only picked up the Atari 2600 in 2012. It is the only pre-NES system I own. I'd like to ask you what "point" the mere presence of a Nintendo fanboy such as myself bears on your argument?

 

OK here is my proof again:

 

[...]

 

The Donkey Kong Game And Watch had a D-pad before the Nes.

What's your point? Nintendo designed the Game and Watch series. They invented the D-pad as we know it. It actually started with the Famicom in 1983, which had permanently attached D-pads. Someone decided that a cross shaped piece of plastic, paired with tactile buttons and rubber domes underneath, were better suited for home console use than cheap plastic joysticks that tend to break down. Yes, a real arcade quality joystick mounted in an immobile cabinet is just as responsive if not more so than a D-pad, but the D-pad is cheaper, smaller, lightweight, and less prone to breakage compared to a scaled down console joystick such as the Atari CX-40. Believe it or not, the crappy stock Atari joystick is still a better overall design than a lot of other pre-NES systems. The Intellivision controller that many of you claim is a precursor to the joypad, may as well have been a sawed-off joystick with a lighter spring underneath it.

 

The primary flexibility in the VCS despite it's limited hardware is the fact the display needs to be refreshed on every scanline, although this is as much a crutch as it is the VCS's greatest asset. This allows tricks that advanced programmers can pull off techniques that otherwise wouldn't have been possible. This allowed the VCS to stay fresh late in the game when all the other generation 2.0 consoles faltered.

 

The NES, on the other hand, has a brilliant tile system. Graphics tiles can be flipped horizontally and/or vertically, contain multiple colors including transparency, and the NES had an awesome rendering system that allows the background playfield to be offset both horizontally or vertically, enabling built in 8-way scrolling of levels without complex programming trickery or cost to CPU time. Graphics were stored in separate ROMs with a separate bus system for both the CPU and PPU.

 

Most importantly, Atari was designed to run PONG and Combat, but eventually became a popular console for arcade ports.

 

NES was designed to display arcade style multicolor graphics tiles, but eventually gave rise to many exiting video game genres, especially platformers. Cart mapper hardware pushed the capabilities even further. Instead of blocky characters made from rectangular pixels, bloops and beeps for sound effects, gamers were greeted with vibrant, cartoony graphics with identifiable characters and catchy theme songs that played during gameplay, which people would often get stuck in their head and hum them too long after the console was switched off.

 

Atarians are a special breed. It is very difficult in the minds of people, young or not, to make the jump backwards from colorful sprites and energetic chip-tunes to blocks and blips and beeps. In fact it took me ten years of retro collecting to muster the courage to buy a pre-NES system, so by and large I used to serve the narrow-minded fanboyish group-think that the NES was the first real games system. And I am really facing the writing on the wall in that my VCS is the fastest growing segment of my games collection, second only to the NES in shear number of carts. And it dawned on me a month back that I now have more posts here on Atariage than I do on Nintendoage.

Edited November 3, 2013 by stardust4ever

[high voltage]

fact is if NES wouldn't have happened in USA, video gaming would have continued on C64 Apple 2 and IBM, like it did.

CGW introduced a NES/SMS section during the late 80s, but it was very brief as it wasn't popular. The NES saved nothing.

Edited November 3, 2013 by high voltage

[high voltage]

that reminds me there was some silly UK gaming magazine called N64 once, and they claimed Nintendo invented analogue controls and the 4-player console. oh how we laughed.

 

truth is Japanese are a nation of copiers, not inventors, but they copy and refine it if needed.

[cimerians]

They did a great job to bring back mainstream consumers into buying cartridges again, most games were well done. They didn't "save" anything though...people were still gaming in those few years between 85' and 86'. Companies crashed but video games never died.

 

They focused on games and nothing else. Atari had no chance and since Nintendo had some cute characters and a solid system\games coming out that they found themselves on the top in the USA buy the late 80's. I personally didn't want anything to do with it initially since I was into computer gaming at the time but...........

 

I remember when I first saw it around 86' in Toys r' Us with only a handful of games on display in a small glassed in section with these black boxes with the words Nintendo on it. I thought, Nintendo??? Since when did they make a game console? Because I only saw some 'generic' games in boring black boxes, Popeye, Baseball, Ice Climber... I said screw that I have a computer and I would walk down the isle to the larger section of C64\Atari computer games.

 

A few years later after playing Super Mario and Baseball at a friends house I bought it.

 

Those aisle's in Toys R' Us would then overflow with Nintendo games year after year.

Edited November 3, 2013 by cimerians

[cimerians]

fact is if NES wouldn't have happened in USA, video gaming would have continued on C64 Apple 2 and IBM, like it did.

CGW introduced a NES/SMS section during the late 80s, but it was very brief as it wasn't popular. The NES saved nothing.

 

I have to agree but Nintendo had it easy, Commodore was still not advancing enough other than releasing better but more expensive computers and of course Apple was still big bucks.

 

Nintendo was releasing cheap gaming consoles that were catering to the 5 year old's at the time. The same ones who ignore the early consoles these days lol

 

Even guys like me caved in just to be able to play a game of Tecmo Bowl so they got us too.

 

They had it easy in my opinion, Sega was a bit late in the game but I think they gave Nintendo a run for the money.

Edited November 3, 2013 by cimerians

[Draikar]

Saying NES is the longest running console is fight'n words here, I think it all depends on what was the first console people remembered playing first.

[Jakandsig]

Man, why are you so impossible? In other threads you started, you do the same thing, ask a question, people answer, you not liking the answer and then start pissing off the people trying to help.

PLEASE GROW UP. Try to communicate in a decent way, or please stop posting here.

Or you just made this all up. And the fact no one answered the thread as of this post you made at all. Heck, a Nintendo guy a few posts up just said a lot of you guy's words are wrong, why not post links or he will think you are all blathering?

 

Have you ever been in a conversation with a fanboy of a company before ever? they will quote wikipedia like the bible, you say they are wrong, but they have a wikipedia source (as bad asit may be) and you know you have to link or show a picture, or reference something to prove them wrong, here you guys are doing none of that, it's the same as saying stuff without links while a fanboy links to wikipedia and that fanboy will not believe you because is bad source is still a source, so you need to prove his bad source wrong with a good source, this may be why nobody here edits wikipedia to make sense because you are all to busy letting happen and not doing something about the spread of pure ignorance.

[The Usotsuki]

Analog joysticks new with the N64? Hell, I'd been using analog joysticks since 1984 with the Apple //c - and I know they were around before that on the original ][, let alone the Atari 5200... HORP DORP

[RevEng]

...this may be why nobody here edits wikipedia to make sense because you are all to busy letting happen and not doing something about the spread of pure ignorance.

[JamesD]

Analog joysticks new with the N64? Hell, I'd been using analog joysticks since 1984 with the Apple //c - and I know they were around before that on the original ][, let alone the Atari 5200... HORP DORP

The Tandy CoCo had analog joysticks from day 1 (1980) and the first analog joysticks on the Apple II date back at least until 1979 if not possibly 1978. I think the first year all apple had was paddle controllers.

I think the other poster is giving the NES way too much credit.

Edited November 4, 2013 by JamesD