Idea: Soundcard for ST?

[Matej]

Are there any soundcard upgrades DAC/FM/OPL2/OPL3/SID/POKEY for ST?

I mean something like on MSX was... (MSX-Audio,MSX-Music)

Or 2xYm2149 upgrade?

Just want to know.

Is possible to make such upgrade?

(probably easiest way will be to use diy MIDI synth)

 

VS1103b gots perfect sound...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKQlumoD8go

 

So soundcard will be like 30Euros (chip cost cca 15USD)...

There are another chips by VLSi...

They can playback MIDI,MP3 (beautiful soundtrack),WAVs etc etc...

 

So new ATARI ST demos or games will have beautiful music...

Plus there will be YM2149 for game effects...

[ParanoidLittleMan]

There was very cheap DAC solution, what goes on parallel port, and even some games could use it.

Adding another PSG , so YM, SID, Pokey would not improve much.

 

And saying soundcard for ST - where you want to connect it ?

Just get an STE and will have quality DMA audio.

[Lynxpro]

I'd think the best route to go would be a cartridge to USB connection so you could plug in the Apple iPod Shuffle models that have the Motorola 56K DSP that the Atari Falcon used. You'd need a driver but giving ST owners Falcon quality audio would rule...

[+DarkLord]

There was the Tweety board...

[tresas]

Hmmm...sound upgrade on Atari ST? You can try a Roland MT-32 with midi connection. The only con is the limited support of games...

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZXer8pnjnM

[+DarkLord]

Thanks for that link. I'd almost forgotten Sierra Systems (and a handful of others

I think) support for MIDI in games.

 

It also makes me sad. It makes me long for the days when developers and

programmers would support something because it was way cool, and not

just because X amount of people had it, and it met their profit margin

expectations...

[MrMaddog]

Interesting... Recently I felt that Atari should have had a FM synth chip for the STe to give games Sega-like music which was better than what ST arcade ports used, not to mention being used for MIDI as well till the user was ready to move up to a more proper sequencer like the MT-32. But even that would have gone unused along with the DMA sample sound...

[Lynxpro]

Interesting... Recently I felt that Atari should have had a FM synth chip for the STe to give games Sega-like music which was better than what ST arcade ports used, not to mention being used for MIDI as well till the user was ready to move up to a more proper sequencer like the MT-32. But even that would have gone unused along with the DMA sample sound...

 

I think Atari would've had to pay the developers to add support for the STE's enhanced graphics and sound and as we all know, that didn't happen. Had they done so, perhaps more games would've went to 720K floppy standard, BlItter support, MIDI support, Motorola 68010/020/030 support [not to mention 68881/68882 support], STE graphics & sound support, and STE enhanced controller port support. I didn't even include the Falcon in this since the gig was pretty much up by then.

 

And I still don't understand to this day why the STE didn't surpass the Amiga's graphics modes and what Corp's logic was in not doing so [other than pinching pennies].

[Lynxpro]

Thanks for that link. I'd almost forgotten Sierra Systems (and a handful of others

I think) support for MIDI in games.

 

It also makes me sad. It makes me long for the days when developers and

programmers would support something because it was way cool, and not

just because X amount of people had it, and it met their profit margin

expectations...

 

Sierra wasn't doing it for the greater good; they wanted to distinguish their titles from their competitors plus cut their development costs down by promoting MIDI across all platforms and thus cutting down the need to touch "bare metal" by treating MIDI as an audio API.

 

They also sold Roland MT-32s. They certainly did at their booth at the World of Atari show circa 1989.

[Fletch]

The MT-32 is really the most logical choice here. Every ST has MIDI ports and some games already support the MT-32. I've seen MT-32's sell on ebay for under $50.

[Zogging Hell]

There was also a sound cartridge that came with the game BAT, which was a step up from the standard ST sound. Not many games used it though, I think only BAT and its sequel BAT II (surprisingly) had the code for it, although other games by the same company (Ubisoft?) were meant to use it as well.

[oky2000]

There was also a sound cartridge that came with the game BAT, which was a step up from the standard ST sound. Not many games used it though, I think only BAT and its sequel BAT II (surprisingly) had the code for it, although other games by the same company (Ubisoft?) were meant to use it as well.

Very interesting, I have never seen hardware sold with that game when I find it on ebay so never even knew about this. It's one of those games on my 'will play it on real hardware one day' list but now I have to make sure I get the full release version not just the disks hmmmm.

 

As the ST has a cartridge port it is probably quite do-able to put a soundchip on a cartridge (like the SID chips carts for the Commodore 16/Plus4 etc) but like others have said if you have an STE and a Roland MT-32 (LAPC-1??) then it's probably good enough not to warrant a bespoke soundchip implementation.

 

It's funny isn't it, the early games like Gauntlet 1 and Technocop etc didn't seem to have a problem using just samples via software 68000 based routines, it's only the later games fuelled by greedy CEOs that were technically inferior in implementation vs what is possible IMO.

Edited November 13, 2013 by oky2000

[Zogging Hell]

Very interesting, I have never seen hardware sold with that game when I find it on ebay so never even knew about this. It's one of those games on my 'will play it on real hardware one day' list but now I have to make sure I get the full release version not just the disks hmmmm.

TBH the sound is nice through it, but rather limited. The thing I prefer about chip tunes from this period is that they take up hardly any space, so you get a lot of variety, whereas samples chew through floppy disks like no-ones business so tracks and samples are re-used. The Amiga has a lot of nice tunes for its super sound hardware, but on a lot of games the same track is used over and over and you quickly get sick of it.

 

As the ST has a cartridge port it is probably quite do-able to put a soundchip on a cartridge (like the SID chips carts for the Commodore 16/Plus4 etc) but like others have said if you have an STE and a Roland MT-32 (LAPC-1??) then it's probably good enough not to warrant a bespoke soundchip implementation.

It's never going to be as good as the MT32 or another sound module, but is better than the built in sound chip.. there is some more info here.

 

http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9824

 

It's funny isn't it, the early games like Gauntlet 1 and Technocop etc didn't seem to have a problem using just samples via software 68000 based routines, it's only the later games fuelled by greedy CEOs that were technically inferior in implementation vs what is possible IMO.

I suppose a lot of the earlier games were actually programmed on the ST, rather than a port from the Amiga or PC, so they were written more with the hardware in mind. A lot of the later games really pushed things on the graphics front though, with more colours on screen, which really eats up processor power and leaves little room for nice samples. Your right though, sometimes if you don't push the hardware quite as hard you get a better result

[Zogging Hell]

And I still don't understand to this day why the STE didn't surpass the Amiga's graphics modes and what Corp's logic was in not doing so [other than pinching pennies].

I think the problem for the STe was that it was released at the same time as the TT, which had those extra screen modes, and probably from Atari's perspective, if the STe had had similar graphics potency the reasons for buying a TT go down. Same reason why it probably didn't sport a 68k running at 16mhz, which it should also have had imho

[Lynxpro]

I think the problem for the STe was that it was released at the same time as the TT, which had those extra screen modes, and probably from Atari's perspective, if the STe had had similar graphics potency the reasons for buying a TT go down. Same reason why it probably didn't sport a 68k running at 16mhz, which it should also have had imho

 

If you are correct, then that was totally short-sightedness on Corp's part. People in the market for a 520STE or 1040STE weren't going to be purchasing a TT; if not an STE, they were going to buy an Amiga 500.

[Zogging Hell]

There is also the slight problem that the ST hardware would start to struggle with anything too far ahead of the Amiga's hardware, the Falcon screen speed dies in high res high colour modes due bandwidth issues and the on ST this would probably be even worse. I'm sure the ST could have been upgraded to maybe 32 or 64 colours without outpacing the rest of the hardware but the 256 which was being put about by the ST magazines before the STe's release would probably have killed it, it would have been not much good for anything but still screens, like Amiga's HAM. You would probably need to upgrade the graphics hardware (a proper graphics card with its own memory) to get that to work and then the ST becomes a lot more expensive and also unviable. Compared to a Mac Plus or Mac Classic which was still being sold at the time, the ST was still a good buy. The STe does solve most of the original ST's flaws, so its not that bad. It's more a problem that the STFM was good enough, and so cheap, it kept selling by the bucket load, meaning the STe never got a proper foothold and software support.

 

Atari were, it seemed, more about trying to out mac the Mac in the professional sector and saw that consoles were about to eat up the games market. This presumably influenced their marketing decision to try and push the ST line as a serious tool, rather than a gaming platform.. The Apple Mac had done that well, carving out a niche against the PC world, and the platform has a pretty terrible selection of games.

[Cyprian]

the Falcon screen speed dies in high res high colour modes due bandwidth issues

actually Falcon has better memory performance than A1200

 

and the on ST this would probably be even worse

and from CPU point of view ST has better performance than A500. In case of blitter (STE vs A500) it depends on blitting mode.

 

somewhere on Atari-forum.com you can find my thread with group of tests of memory performance for Atar ST/TT/Falcon and A500/1200/4000 with and without accelerator cards

 

 

But back to the topic, I'd like to have YM-Stereo mod.

[Lynxpro]

BUMP.

 

What about adding the YM2151 and the TI Speech Synthesis chip used by Atari Games arcade titles? Then [theoretically] more of the original arcade code could be used in the ST conversions of those games and thereby reduce RAM and 68000 usage to play the sampled audio clips.

 

Note: Curt's 7800 XM includes a YM2151 - and a POKEY - and that's one of the reasons. From 1984 on, Atari Games Corp used the YM2151, a TI Speech Synthesis chip, POKEY and apparently a dedicated 6502 to manage all of that audio in their games. This is why so much is missing from the ST ports of the Gauntlet games vs the arcade originals…or Tengen's Genesis/Mega Drive version [which has a similar YM chip even though it lacks the other chips and a slower 68000 than the ST].

[Lynxpro]

actually Falcon has better memory performance than A1200

 

and from CPU point of view ST has better performance than A500. In case of blitter (STE vs A500) it depends on blitting mode.

 

somewhere on Atari-forum.com you can find my thread with group of tests of memory performance for Atar ST/TT/Falcon and A500/1200/4000 with and without accelerator cards

 

 

But back to the topic, I'd like to have YM-Stereo mod.

 

Do you mean a dual YM2149 daughter board?

[Thorsten Günther]

There is also the slight problem that the ST hardware would start to struggle with anything too far ahead of the Amiga's hardware, the Falcon screen speed dies in high res high colour modes due bandwidth issues and the on ST this would probably be even worse. I'm sure the ST could have been upgraded to maybe 32 or 64 colours without outpacing the rest of the hardware but the 256 which was being put about by the ST magazines before the STe's release would probably have killed it, it would have been not much good for anything but still screens, like Amiga's HAM.

I beg to differ: a 160x200@256 mode would have needed the exact same bandwidth and CPU/Biltter power as the 320x200@16 mode, and the same amount of RAM (IBMs MCGA card only had 64KB of RAM and already sported the ubiquitous 320x200@256 mode). In 1989, this would have meant the STE would have entered the market as a rather low-cost computer with the bursting colours and 8 bit stereo sound of a PC equipped with both a VGA/MCGA and Soundblaster card.

 

This might not have saved Atari, but IMHO the STE would have sold a lot better.

[galax]

I had a Stereo Replay cartridge that came bundled with a version of Quartet. A few games supported it, including Wings of Death which sounded fantastic through my hi-fi in about 1991. I may still have it in my parents' loft somewhere.