peteym5 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) I have some news about that came from our own current beta testers regarding the older version of 16K Venture compressed. For one thing, the game does not always crash, even after that sound crackle is heard. The game keeps playing. It also a random glitch that does not happen and crash all the time. One reason why it may crash is parts of the program are now deflated into RAM instead of majority of it on the cartridge ROM. Anything loaded into RAM can be altered. If something is going on with RMT pointers reading memory locations not a song and it starts writing to random locations in RAM where the program is running from, anything can happen. Several different versions of RMT might had been used for different version of Venture also. Now this sound problem does not seems not to be occurring every version on different OS, hardware configurations, and video hardware. It is not happening with the 400,800, 600XL, 1200XL. Also does not happen with the AltirraOS XL/XE OS. However we do not support glitches in my games generated from conflicts with OS hacks, custom hardware, or anything running an emulator. However Post# 424 should have information hacking a fix. It is not too hard to figure out why this got missed back when we first made Venture to run from a 16K cartridge so we can sell it for $39.95 instead of $49.95. I probably was focused on making sure it still runs on the 400/800 or had Altirra set to use the Altirra XL/XE OS. I usually leave the Firmware to the default settings for my first tests, I did not look into how to set up all the OS configurations until a year ago. Several different versions of Altirra had been put up for download since 2014. The Venture ROM image was sent to Video 61 and given to Kjmann so they can do the real hardware tests. I had the 16K version ported over back in March 2014, Kjmann was still running things and did not want to release it until the Portland Retro Gaming Expo in October. He has several Atari computers, and I believe we was selling 600XLs configured to 64K, Stereo Pokey, and Super Video upgrade. I have no information which machines he beta tested Venture on. Anyone can ask him which hardware he tested it on. This sound glitch was not known and reported to us until this year, 3 years after the game had been released. We have an updated version of the game that will be released going forward. Anyone who has issues with the game, does need to sent me a private message or email or call Video61. Edited December 31, 2017 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 The reason why you don't find out is because you don't have enough testers with enough REAL hardware testing it... once things get out into the world it seems it always gets found out by someone....after a person finally gets up the nerve to announce the issue... others who are unsure of their machines stability chime in... In all reality these machines are much more stable then a newbie who just got into or recently re acquired an Atari knows... After they hear others talk about the issue they know it's not their machine but rather the software/firmware.... It may be so protected that even paying customers can't get a consistent experience... To listen to all the this computer config that computer config is generally BS.... if it were that way... we wouldn't have anything at all to play/ run/ use on our Atari's..... as far as compatibility goes the Atari line and it's mods are pretty darn spot on and interchangeable for it's software base... the pbi based stuff plays along pretty well too... almost all coders know how to avoid the spots that would be trouble..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Even blaming bugs on RMT... Hilarious. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 It is not too hard to figure out why this got missed back when we first made Venture to run from a 16K cartridge so we can sell it for $39.95 instead of $49.95. I probably was focused on making sure it still runs on the 400/800 or had Altirra set to use the Altirra XL/XE OS. I usually leave the Firmware to the default settings for my first tests, I did not look into how to set up all the OS configurations until a year ago. Several different versions of Altirra had been put up for download since 2014. The Venture ROM image was sent to Video 61 and given to Kjmann so they can do the real hardware tests. Do you seriously expect anyone to believe this lame excuse? The first version of Altirra that was released in 2014 was version 2.50. In case you have forgotten, this is what you see the first time you run Altirra 2.50: In fact, this screen pops up every time you run the emulator on the built-in XL/XE OS with BASIC disabled and no disk/cartridge. So basically, you're suggesting that the following are true: You somehow didn't notice you were running a non-original OS, despite a giant purple splash screen indicating otherwise that looks nothing like what any physical Atari ships with and having the logo and name of the emulator, -or- you sent builds to QA without doing local testing on both the standard OS-B or XL/XE OSes. It took you two years to figure out how to use System > Firmware to select a different OS. Forget testing on real hardware, this means you didn't even have sufficient configuration testing coverage in emulation. Which is ridiculous, considering that one of the reasons to emulate is precisely that. Why would you even develop on the built-in Altirra OS for software that you have emphatically stated on multiple occasions is only supported and meant to run on real hardware? I don't even do that, even for software that's built in to Altirra. No one cares about your unsupported guesses about how other software you used may have been involved in causing issues in your software, especially when others are able to use those same upstream software packages without the same problems. Frankly I'm quite tired of having my software mentioned as part of your excuses for shipping your broken software. If you think Altirra is implicated then I'd rather you just not use it. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I think its also rather ironic that the actual Altirra OS screen actually says to use the REAL Atari OS's for higher compatibility and tells you where to look... Oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Latest version of Venture with sound glitch bug corrected will be available at Atarisales.com for $39.95. We are working with customers who actually own a cartridge to resolve this sound problem. The issue is not affecting the Atari 5200 version of Venture also. I never put the blame on other software causing the issue, but nearly provided an explanation of how such an issue might had gone by unnoticed for years. I was also still using atari800win plus during the time of Venture development that does require real ROM images. I was uploading the ROM image to Kjmann to do tests on real hardware, who had a RAM cart + AtariMax cart. He is no longer working with Video61. As stated the sound glitch did not happen with certain models, versions of the OS, and a random glitch that does not always happen. We have a new dedicated set of beta testers that have more than one Atari computer model and with VBXE. Venture had been recently re-submitted to them and they did report stuff that never been posted. The first step investigating a reported bug is to use an emulator to see if the results can be replicated. I am being much more open about the development of Venture on 7800. Screenshots and WIP videos are being posted in the 7800 section. Been keeping things positive there. Edited December 31, 2017 by peteym5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Wow, you could not resist a dig "I was also still using atari800win plus during the time of Venture development that does require real ROM images" So the fact that Altirra has a developed internal OS that does not require the user to have real rom images to get use out of the emulator is its fault. The internal OS was and never has been quoted as the OS to use for maximum compatibility, it even says it on the logo screen at power on. Like Altirra's enhanced BASIC they are there as alternatives which allow the user the ability to use Altirra out of the package straight away if you don't have the real OS roms for emulation that matches real hardware as close as possible. The Altirra OS as with the BASIC offer very good compatibly and fixes / enhances etc to issues in the said roms. The fact that Avery has developed these internal roms is a great plus for new user or old hand but they are not the REAL OS that YOU should have been using in any tests. At the end of the day the quality of testing is on you, you missed a problem, its not the fault of what you used, its the fault of the programmer.. Its like the utility companies when they send you out a huge mistake bill and then blame the computers when the truth is its down to what info has been given by a human to it or the quality of programming of the software which is also a HUMAN error... Just take it on the chin and fix it for those customers, the ball stops with you alone... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I have play tested most of my life, I have always gotten a pat on the back, a paycheck, or a gift for finding a glitch, error, or other issue (play-ability, logic, process). I always get a happy acknowledgment or pleasant conversation. The project team loves what is found and are grateful for the chance to improve, change, or fix it. They never take it personal or as an attack on their respective trade within the group. The art improves the code improves the music improves the product improves , it's a win for everyone! Please PeteyM5 / V61 take the same happy, constructive, and positive attitude that has been and always will be the foundation of this industry! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I mean er um chill out man, take it easy, it's not personal dude.. keep at it... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Doc, I admire your attitude, I truly wish Petey would adopt it, I've beta tested a million and one things on lots of machines and even professionally at BMG for a very short time), I did it because I liked being involved and hoped I'd improve the product but most of all it was just great fun. So I admire any dev taking their time be it for money or not to make something for the community, its amazing to think anyone is making NEW software for this machine and I'm right behind them all the way BUT Petey mate, you make it hard to stand up for by these really odd decisions and attitude toward the punters, you know, the people you want to BUY your software and come back for more. DO your self a favour and listen to all these people, sometimes its not pleasant but its feed back and in your case its vital it gets heard and acted on, it may be hard to hear that a project you are working on feels cheap or old but that's what the public think, it may be a pain when coding has failed and its found after release but its just good customer service to help the people even if makes a dent in any profit because they WILL come back. Seriously Petey, this isn't rocket science, its good business practice, people should NOT need to scream it at you, your business depends on you doing good business practice. As for the blaming others, really daft, the ball always ends up in your hands, you come across as not very people personable (trust me, I am just as bad from depression at times) and if that's the case then its no big deal, we are what we are but when it comes to the game side and making a few coins from it you need to follow business practice. You want people to be think "hey, what's coming next from Petey", if you don't change things a bit you might just stop hearing people even bothering to ask what's next...NONE of us want that..... We really don't but an attitude change is needed... Paul.... Edited January 1, 2018 by Mclaneinc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) @DOC, @McLaneinc For your information, I have a new set of beta testers and testing all my new games. They do not want to come onto the AtariAge 8-bit forum, but are normally on Atari.IO. They may go into the programming section for information. Myself and the beta testers are under non-disclosure that protecting personal information. They use real Atari computers. So if you want to beta test, send me a PM or write to Video61. All communications with them are done through private communications. As stated Venture was been on the market for 4 years now, I am not sure when I started development. Sometime after Tempest Xtreme. I was working with a different person back then, May had been using different emulators, Altirra was something new I started using later to help debug stuff. Each time a new version is released or I had to re-install windows, I have to set the ROMs up again. I do not recall every thing we tested Venture on, all I do know it seemed very rock solid at the time. Edited January 1, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 You want people to be think "hey, what's coming next from Petey" We're all thinking that already. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) water You want people to be think "hey, what's coming next from Petey", if you don't change things a bit you might just stop hearing people even bothering to ask what's next...NONE of us want that..... Paul.... We're all thinking that already. I hinted or stated what I have been working on here and in other threads about new and upcoming games. Which new games I am looking to start up and work on. There are several beta testers working with us now and the new stuff has been playing solid across different Atari 8-bit hardware and firmware. We have "Putt 18 Miniature Golf" on cartridge that has four full 18 hole courses. There will be many different shapes on the walls, moving obstacles, water hazards, and traps in the game. Two playing options, can use the pointer, hold down fire for desired strength of stroke and release, or play the 2600 Miniature Golf style that has a square representing the putter club and distance determine strength. Can play one or two player mode. Requires joystick to play. I ported many of my games over to the 5200, we are waiting on some parts for the cartridges. I started learning about the 7800 and see which games can be ported over to that system as well. Venture is on the priority list for both systems. Edited January 2, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Get some media up for the golf, I do like a golf game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 We're all thinking that already. Ha ha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Putt 18 Miniature Golf may be available sometime in later winter/early spring. It will be on cartridge for $39.95. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thank you for that, looking nice, are you adding any more to it? Just out of interest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Pete, Watched the video and have some feedback - not that you were looking for any Basic gameplay seems there but it looks repetitive. Corner blocks and something spinning to alter the ball Obstacle objects all act the same and are of similar small size - just different shape Nice to see the ramp objects I didnt really see any hazard objects like Water or 'Rough' grass. Some sort graphical enhancement to the play field would be nice also. Looks very 2600ish. The ball movement didnt seem smooth to me - there didnt really appear to be any difference in ball speed for the club hit. A hard hit just meant the ball went further, but medium hits seemed to have the same speed, just not traveled as far. Not sure if others feel this way but the ball movement doesnt see right to me. Would be nice if the hole layout could scroll in 1 direction to provide a bigger playfield Would be interesting to see what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 One other last thought would be to add a 'gravity' option. As a difficulty setting to alter the trajectory of the ball to increase difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 That was an early work-in-progress video of Putt 18 just showing a few holes. Game was tweaked since then to fix some issues before I release it. We are just waiting for some time after the release of the last cartridges release to give everyone a breather. We will be preparing all the printed material for this and one other game soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) https://youtu.be/kU18O7-pjj0 Here is a longer Putt18 Game Play. I had to cut some of the video to make it fit inside 15 minutes. (Youtube limit) Edited January 3, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) Any texture of astroturf/grass for tilt/unlevel ground? or flags/ shadows to indicate surface angle going to be added? the mechanism to do unlevel or tilted ground it isn't far from magnets/gravity in a pinball or other such game... Edited January 3, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Texture for tilted/uneven ground, slants, slopes, hills, is a darker shade of green with some pixels pointing down hill. I tried different ideals and the arrow thing worked the best. Been done in many other miniature golf and even golf games with the putting green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I'm hopelessly unqualified to speculate on gameplay, but I immediately notice untidy transitions (garbage when moving from one screen to the next) and jumpy status bar updates. Synchronise display list changes to the vertical blank and redraw the status line incrementally rather than erasing the whole thing and re-drawing it. My $0.02. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 After many years coding most of the time bugs were my fault and not toolset. RMT doesnt go mad if code dont mess with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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