Venture Official Release

[xxl]

31 minutes ago, CharlieChaplin said:

(On the other hand, we are not talking about actual PC/console software, but about A8 software here...)

you are right, the scale is completely different, there are large companies selling, here small, often one-person companies sell. it is much easier to rob one person.

[Marius]

3 minutes ago, xxl said:

you are right, the scale is completely different, there are large companies selling, here small, often one-person companies sell. it is much easier to rob one person.

XXL, seriously. No one here wants to rob anyone. I pay for everything I use on a8. Even the things that are free, and I keep using, can count on a donation from my side. 

 

The question is more: how ethical is it, that people sell software (for big money) while they KNOW the software does not work properly. 

 

 

[xxl]

all games sold by the above mentioned corpo have bugs. You don't like it? Do not buy it!

I disdain the view that someone want to dump the purchased product and dissolve it because someone will "fix" it.

Edited October 22, 2020 by xxl

[Mr Robot]

12 minutes ago, xxl said:

you are right, the scale is completely different, there are large companies selling, here small, often one-person companies sell. it is much easier to rob one person.

In the case of Video 61, the one person being robbed is the customer.

 

I fully respect the rights of the small software producer, even yours. I may think you are being a bit of a dick making your point the way that you are, but it's your software, you state it doesn't work with some configurations so it's all fine. We're a small community and no one is getting rich supporting us, anyone who does make things for the community, hardware, software, art, 3d work, spare parts, whatever, should be supported and that includes not ripping off their stuff. 

 

Video 61 sells buggy crap, people report the bugs, the bugs don't get fixed, they can't return the buggy cart. Video 61 are ripping off their customers at that point. They aren't the small producer that needs supporting any longer, just lazy crooks. Would it be better if one of their customers dumped the cart and asked for help fixing the bugs and then sent the cart image via PM to anyone who offers to help? Or are you just saying "HAHA you bought a lemon, tough shit"?

 

[Albert]

1 minute ago, Mr Robot said:

Would it be better if one of their customers dumped the cart and asked for help fixing the bugs and then sent the cart image via PM to anyone who offers to help?

If I catch anyone doing this via AtariAge, they will receive a permanent ban on the forum. 

 

 ..Al

[Mr Robot]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

If I catch anyone doing this via AtariAge, they will receive a permanent ban on the forum. 

 

 ..Al

Yes, sorry again Albert, I was just being hypothetical, not suggesting anyone should do that on your forums.

 

[Marius]

7 minutes ago, xxl said:

all games sold by the above mentioned corpo have bugs. You don't like it? Do not buy it!

I disdain the view that someone want to dump the purchased product and dissolve it because someone will "fix" it.

Yeah, of course me too.

 

You don't seem to understand what I am saying. The point is: they advertised their games using fake accounts. An atari 8bit scene is today something different than the big companies you mention. Selling bugs for being good is in my eyes the same as robbery. You and I can disagree about that, but that is my opinion.

 

I would nobody encourage to share (buggy) code. Never. But I also would be able to warn people for lost money, in buying untested and proven buggy stuff.

[Marius]

5 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

Video 61 sells buggy crap, people report the bugs, the bugs don't get fixed, they can't return the buggy cart.

Well that is not completely true. Lance will do refunds. I think he is not a bad guy, but he should communicate about this. He could make sure that what he sells has a certain (good!) quality. In my opinion he lacks that attitude too much.

 

I am sure Lance accepts returns of the cart, and he will do a complete refund. So that is a good thing. But I also know people won't return, or perhaps they think they can't return. He simply should stop selling crap. Let someone please help these guys in improving their stuff.

 

From a positive point of view: the titles have most certainly some potential, and with a little bit of help here and there, they could become real classics. Lance will probably sell way more titles, if all this trouble is left behind.

 

But well... as @flashjazzcat already mentioned. I should stop supporting these people, and I also should stop dreaming about a perfect world.

[Mr Robot]

10 minutes ago, Marius said:

Lance will do refunds

This is not what I was told by Pete when I asked him if I could return any carts I was unhappy with for some reason. 

 

He told me that I was probably a pirate who would buy all the carts, rip them and return them, so no, no refunds for sold carts. I didn't realise he was singling me out, I assumed it was policy.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Mr Robot
In hindsight it probably didn't help that we had just been arguing about digital versions before I asked that question. But the reason I was asking abotu digital versions is that I don't have the ability to dump carts, read disks or read tapes!

[xxl]

18 minutes ago, Marius said:

The point is: they advertised their games using fake accounts.

the aforementioned corpo sponsors reviews, what's the difference? and what? you don't like it?

Before buying, check the independent reviews of the editorial office with an established reputation, not the troll farm. And if someone feels the messianic need to warn humanity against errors in video61 games, let them record own review.

[xrbrevin]

Just now, xxl said:

let them record own review.

and await the personal abuse from the author ?

[flashjazzcat]

11 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

In the case of Video 61, the one person being robbed is the customer.

13 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

He told me that I was probably a pirate who would buy all the carts, rip them and return them, so no, no refunds for sold carts.

Just ? Stop ? Buying ? 

 

Have you noticed that people who are the most paranoid about 'piracy' and/or who deliberately cripple their software with copy protection methods or boobie-traps targeting certain popular upgrades also benefit from free publicity off the back of the resulting controversy? The product becomes divisive, thereby garnering loud backing from its supporters as well as ire from detractors. It's great way of securing disproportionately large amounts of air-time for unremarkable products.

 

On the other hand, 'cloning' is becoming a real issue, even in the realm of hardware. This is very often driven by politics and acrimony between various vendors, and the sad result is that developers really do have to have one eye on protecting their intellectual property. This is not what the Atari hobby is supposed to be all about, however, and the first person to lose out because of such negativity will be the end user, as talented and level-headed developers decide it is not worth their while to bring new products to market.

[Marius]

8 minutes ago, xxl said:

the aforementioned corpo sponsors reviews, what's the difference? and what? you don't like it?

Before buying, check the independent reviews of the editorial office with an established reputation, not the troll farm. And if someone feels the messianic need to warn humanity against errors in video61 games, let them record own review.

It seems you make some kind of a sport trying to justify wrong behavior. That other companies do bad things, does not mean that I should act differently (because I could know the information I read is false). That means that the world is sick, and I will stand up against that till I die. You simply can not compare 'big business' in a small scene like this... well you can compare, but the comparison doesn't make any sense.

 

If person #1 reports: hey there is a bug with this program.

and then fake person #2 reports: oh I bought the cart and here everything works fine.

 

There is really NOTHING that justifies that behavior of person #2. It is wrong, and it should be judged that way. Also by you XXL. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Marius

[xxl]

and this is supposed to be an excuse? the fact that the troll farm has a different opinion cannot be an excuse to dump and distribute the game under the guise of "someone will fix it". maybe it's like with the equipment? fixing bugs is too costly and it is not profitable to fix bugs and faulty devices are still sold? and what? you don't like it? do not buy.

[Mr Robot]

14 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

Just ? Stop ? Buying ? 

 

Never have, never will. Digital only or I'll just live without it, there are plenty of other games I can play. I probably shouldn't have hidden the notes to that effect in the edit reason box!

 

16 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

On the other hand, 'cloning' is becoming a real issue, even in the realm of hardware. This is very often driven by politics and acrimony between various vendors, and the sad result is that developers really do have to have one eye on protecting their intellectual property.

You must be talking about Bound cloning the Terrible Fire 536. Apparently JLCPcb had a website vuln and Bound just helped himself to the gerbers for whatever he wanted. The political stuff about postage was all just a smokescreen, he's cloning lots of peoples stuff and purely doing it for profit.

 

I think RetroTink is doing it right, fabbing in China but only providing a testing firmware so you have to upgrade as soon as you buy one. 

 

[Albert]

4 minutes ago, xxl said:

you don't like it? do not buy.

This. 
 

  ..Al

[flashjazzcat]

6 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

You must be talking about Bound cloning the Terrible Fire 536.

I wasn't, although I was very disappointed to hear of what happened with TF.

[Marius]

12 minutes ago, xxl said:

and this is supposed to be an excuse? the fact that the troll farm has a different opinion cannot be an excuse to dump and distribute the game under the guise of "someone will fix it". 

Never am I talking about dumping and distribution. I am talking about the fact that people should not lie. Not big companies, not small companies. That's all. Of course people decide by themselves what they buy or not, but in a scene like this one, when people think they are talking to someone else just like a regular user, and it turns out that it was a fake person, ... then I can understand people feel robbed. That is the behavior I am talking about all the time. 

I do not want anything to be dumped or spread. I want bad habits to stop. 

[flashjazzcat]

1 minute ago, Marius said:

I am talking about the fact that people should not lie.

This. Never bullshit the end user.

 

[Marius]

@peteym5 and @video61atarisales

 

Since you seem to be completely aware of anything that happens here in this thread, just for your info:

 

I have an e-mail here in my mailbox written by Lance R. (sent from an address V****61@t**.net) from date May 18th, 2017.

In which Lance (yes already in 2017!) writes to me that:

 

1. I (Marius) found a bug

2. Peter says he found the errors

 

 

Ok... let me summarize this.

In 2017 the bug was mentioned, and confirmed by Lance (Video61). Also confirmed was in 2017 that Peter found the errors. 

 

Then read this BS Peteym5 write now in his FB group:

 

So what is interesting here.

 

1. He blames Sal (Kjmann)

2. He states that due to Sal he was not aware of any bugs.

3. He states that it took several years before the bug was noticed by anyone...

 

Well even if these three statements are true, it still does not explain why they already in 2017 knew about the bugs, and that in 2020 still carts were/are sold with the same bug.

 

So who is telling lies now? 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Marius

[Mclaneinc]

23 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

This. Never bullshit the end user.

 

Sadly this isn't practised by the big companies for the most part...

 

It does worry me when the little companies do it as their honesty and quality are incredibly important to them making a living, there's no vast revenue from other places to fall back on so when you get Petey being allowed to tell customers they are pirates and no refund for you it looks bad on Lance as I presume petey is just a supplier to Lance and should not be making company policy even if it is his game. I wonder if Lance even knows he's being used in the FB post?

 

Petey is worse than the itch you can't scratch, he's more like the itch you would be happy to cut your leg off to get rid of it..

 

What with Centron Peter and this Peter we have to wonder if all Peters are infected, eh JAC!

Edited October 22, 2020 by Mclaneinc

[+Stephen]

Not surprising considering that even after perhaps a dozen people complained of music skipping on transitions (due to VBI being disabled), Pete said he could not hear it.  In addition to being a paranoid liar, he's also hearing impaired it would seem.

[Mclaneinc]

8 minutes ago, Marius said:

@peteym5 and @video61atarisales

 

 

Ok... let me summarize this.

In 2017 the bug was mentioned, and confirmed by Lance (Video61). Also confirmed was in 2017 that Peter found the errors. 

 

Then read this BS Peteym5 write now in his FB group:

 

 

So what is interesting here.

 

1. He blames Sal (Kjmann)

2. He states that due to Sal he was not aware of any bugs.

3. He states that it took several years before the bug was notices by anyone...

 

Well even if these three statements are true, it still does not explain why they already in 2017 knew about the bugs. And that in 2020 still carts are sold with the same bug. 

 

The truth from Peter, good luck....

 

The truth is that him and Lance are the root of the problem, I presume Lance has known of the issues but lets Petey be his mouth...Lance should have got Petey to fix the item and not sell any while that was being done, to still be selling the same bugged item is just wrong, it makes a mockery of good customer service and loyalty to the customer...2 things very much needed in a small business world..

 

As for selling a bugged item, Microsoft have got away with it for decades...

Edited October 22, 2020 by Mclaneinc

[Albert]

That thread on Facebook was not going well for Peter.  Here's the last comment before Peter deleted the entire the post... Followed by a new post attacking Sal (again) a few minutes later.

 

 

Here's the first comment on his brand new post:

 

 

He's never going to learn.

 

 ..Al

[carlsson]

I kind of regret talking Peter out of entering the C64 market, due to how the "scene" part of it mostly deals with piracy. He would have had a field day with those people once his game(s) were released, cracked and spread. Like mentioned before, the A8 community in comparison seems like a role model in respect and honesty.