Jinks Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Sorry Jaynz. I went a touch too far to cause you that much grief. Xm or not its all good. If your posting on a 7800 forum you may be a 7800 fan. Thats good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Okay, I admit it, I lost my top for a bit.No prob.. Everyone is allowed to react and vent. We all have our moments.. Glad it was just "for a bit" tho, as it really only gets annoying when it keeps going and going, well after when people already know you point... Here's the thing. I'm sick of the XM. D'oh.. um.. Never mind.. desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Read the rest of the post, Desiv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Read the rest of the post, Desiv. That's too much work and I'd have to take things seriously.. :-) :-) desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Well, then, I'm afraid I'm just going to have to shoot you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Carefull might want to edit that last post dude. You live in ussa where guys get locked up for posting things like that joking or not. Its happened... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I would hope that most 7800 fans would be old enough to get a Monty Python reference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2600 Forever Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I would hope that most 7800 fans would be old enough to get a Monty Python reference... I'd think he is talking about one of the 20-25 year old analyst drones at some government agency of your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Okay, I admit it, I lost my top for a bit. HA HA! I've done that a time or two. I've also been personally attacked a time or two. Sometimes I deserved it, of course. But about your thoughts on the 7800 vs. 7800XM - I tend to agree. I mean, I'm kind of new to the whole 7800 scene (NOT new to Atari) and I'm kind of intrigued by it all, and I wonder if the 7800XM will become the de-facto standard. The price of a 7800 XM is $150, and if you want a *NICE* 7800 system - as few sane would want to place a $150 device upon a P.O.S. - that's not exactly cheap, either. So the combined bar for entering the 7800XM world is relatively high. I'm playing "wait and see," although I am interested in the XM. I think your question is valid, however: "Which way shall 7800 development go?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoTonah Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I'm not sure why there is a need for the XM to be compatible with all 7800 carts... that is the holdup, I believe. If a game isn't compatible, how hard is it to unplug the XM and plug in the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I'm not sure why there is a need for the XM to be compatible with all 7800 carts... that is the holdup, I believe. Curt's update concerning XM development is here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/218921-xm-any-chance-it-will-be-in-our-hands-by-christmas/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2875154 What's being worked on: -Synth test code for the Yamaha chip -Final rev board design checks -Firmware updates still need to be addressed -Ironing out remaining compatibility and functionality issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I would hope that most 7800 fans would be old enough to get a Monty Python reference...I got the reference right away.. desiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) Son when you were in your dads bag I was in bagdad.. Edited December 18, 2013 by Jinks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Okay, Jinks, that just made me /super/ old in comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) HA HA! I've done that a time or two. I've also been personally attacked a time or two. Sometimes I deserved it, of course. But about your thoughts on the 7800 vs. 7800XM - I tend to agree. I mean, I'm kind of new to the whole 7800 scene (NOT new to Atari) and I'm kind of intrigued by it all, and I wonder if the 7800XM will become the de-facto standard. The price of a 7800 XM is $150, and if you want a *NICE* 7800 system - as few sane would want to place a $150 device upon a P.O.S. - that's not exactly cheap, either. So the combined bar for entering the 7800XM world is relatively high. I'm playing "wait and see," although I am interested in the XM. I think your question is valid, however: "Which way shall 7800 development go?" I wish there was a way that the XM and the XBoard could be used together. I was totally unaware of the XBoard previously but if one didn't care about the YM2151 and/or built-in HSC and you owned a 7800 with the Maria chip socketed, it's definitely the more economical approach. Not to mention supporting DUAL POKEYs if the 7800 homebrew scene ever decided to take advantage of that [as some have done on the A8 side]. And I'm truly intrigued by the idea of a 7800 with an XM and an XBoard with 256K RAM [but the 4K onboard the 7800] and 3 POKEYs to use [not counting any cart-based ones too] all together. Shame they don't get along standard. Edited December 20, 2013 by Lynxpro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well.. anyway.. back to Qix. I did play a little bit with the logic on this one and I'm convinced that it CAN be done on a regular cart. What I'm running into now isn't so much the boundary-drawing issues, but the Qix itself, as a rainbow colored group of several lines constantly flipping about. It's not as bad as, say, Tempest, but there's the problem that each line has to bound detect with the drawn-in area as well as collision detect with the in-drawing characters. The 7800 could probably drop to four Qix lines to save on processing, but that bit remains a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm not a fan of the 7800 so maybe I'm not the right person to ask, but... what's with the sudden interest in system add-ons? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of working within the system's limitations? It's my opinion that if you are a fan of the 7800, you're not showing it much love by demanding a peripheral that turns it into something it's not. Besides, we all know what happened with the ColecoVision's Super Game Module. The one game everyone wanted for the SGM- Donkey Kong Arcade- was never released. These expansions never get the support the base system did, and needlessly fracture the user base. Just say no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well.. anyway.. back to Qix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm not a fan of the 7800 so maybe I'm not the right person to ask, but... what's with the sudden interest in system add-ons? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of working within the system's limitations? It's my opinion that if you are a fan of the 7800, you're not showing it much love by demanding a peripheral that turns it into something it's not. Besides, we all know what happened with the ColecoVision's Super Game Module. The one game everyone wanted for the SGM- Donkey Kong Arcade- was never released. These expansions never get the support the base system did, and needlessly fracture the user base. Just say no! That's what I am mostly interested in, working within the limitations of the system, inside a cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm not a fan of the 7800 so maybe I'm not the right person to ask, but... what's with the sudden interest in system add-ons? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of working within the system's limitations? It's my opinion that if you are a fan of the 7800, you're not showing it much love by demanding a peripheral that turns it into something it's not. Besides, we all know what happened with the ColecoVision's Super Game Module. The one game everyone wanted for the SGM- Donkey Kong Arcade- was never released. These expansions never get the support the base system did, and needlessly fracture the user base. Just say no! FYI...http://atariage.com/forums/topic/219744-my-latest-revision-of-the-megacart/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2887459 Understandably, as you're not a fan of the 7800, if you are referring to the XM module, you are mistaken if the belief is it's "a peripheral that turns (the 7800) into something it is not". Sorry to hear the ColecoVision SGM is still missing Donkey Kong Arcade; "real life" does come first though. The XM module with 250 units accounted for already has Donkey Kong XM and Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest done as developed games utilizing it. The XM module provides POKEY sound to Beef Drop VE (For those who do not have an original Beef Drop cartridge with included POKEY chip), and Froggie. It also provides high score saving to 9 of the original retail titles which included the high score save code data in their original programming, as well as to a slew of released homebrew games. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Nonetheless, this dead horse has been beaten enough. There are some that are either misinformed or/and do not like the concept of centralized hardware, and want all necessary hardware contained within each cartridge; neither methods are 'wrong' - centralized or cart-by-cart basis. It is up to the developers how they wish to utilize and showcase the hardware and the games. One or the other does not make you more or less a fan, or showing more or less love for the system. It's fantastic to see and have a plethora of options developed for the 7800 platform. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Understandably, as you're not a fan of the 7800, if you are referring to the XM module, you are mistaken if the belief is it's "a peripheral that turns (the 7800) into something it is not".No, that's a reasonably accurate summary. A cartridge programmed to rely on the XM's hardware will not function properly or at all when plugged into a stock 7800, therefore such cartridges cannot honestly be described as 7800 games. It's too bad the XM design didn't drop the Yamaha chip (WTF?) and work more like the Cuttle Cart. That would have been much more useful. As is, the only way to play XM games is by creating an actual physical cartridge... which, again, will only work on a 7800 with an XM installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 No, that's a reasonably accurate summary. A cartridge programmed to rely on the XM's hardware will not function properly or at all when plugged into a stock 7800, therefore such cartridges cannot honestly be described as 7800 games. It's too bad the XM design didn't drop the Yamaha chip (WTF?) and work more like the Cuttle Cart. That would have been much more useful. As is, the only way to play XM games is by creating an actual physical cartridge... which, again, will only work on a 7800 with an XM installed. The game is programmed to rely on hardware mapped to a specific address location. You technically can build a cart PCB that would run games, that are 'not 7800 games' (By your definition), without an XM on a stand-alone 7800, without a problem. Bentley Bear and Donkey Kong XM are two excellent examples of this fact. CPUWIZ already proved and demonstrated running both without an XM. The resources and practicality of mass producing such a PCB/cart-type are just some of what may be possible issues that come into question. Remember that the NES has dozens of different PCB/cart-types (Commonly referred to as "mappers") containing a plethora of different additional hardware (chip) configurations from its 'stand-alone' base, making up ~90% of its entire library of games. However, Nintendo had very deep pockets for such provisions. The SMS is in a similar boat. Again, this dead horse has been beat to death and more, there are those who don't want some of the hardware centralized in a device, but on every cart...It is very well understood. It still does not mean the XM, because it allows the hardware to be centralized instead of built for every game/cart, "turns the 7800 into something it is not". In case this was missed or misunderstood linked above: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/219744-my-latest-revision-of-the-megacart/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2887459 NES: Konami VRC6, Konami VRC7, NAMCO 163, Sunsoft 5B "(WTF?)" SMS: Yamaha YM2413 FM synthesis chip "(WTF?)" The Harmony 2 (H2) will "work more like a Cuttle Cart" and better, if that type of hardware homebrewing is your interest or "much more useful" to you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I'm not a fan of the 7800 Then one has to ask what you're doing in a forum marked, "Atari 7800" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DracIsBack Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 No, that's a reasonably accurate summary. A cartridge programmed to rely on the XM's hardware will not function properly or at all when plugged into a stock 7800, therefore such cartridges cannot honestly be described as 7800 games. It's too bad the XM design didn't drop the Yamaha chip (WTF?) and work more like the Cuttle Cart. That would have been much more useful. As is, the only way to play XM games is by creating an actual physical cartridge... which, again, will only work on a 7800 with an XM installed. Dude - why do you hate this thing so much? If you don't like it, don't buy it. Some of us are curious to see what would have happened had Atari taken the route Nintendo did and actually invested in cartridge enhancements regularly to improve their games (RAM, battery, mappers, sound chips). It's also possible some games will be developed to work on a both a stock and an XM based 7800. Don't see why you feel the need to perpetually villanize someone's hard work 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZylonBane Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Dude - why do you hate this thing so much? A better question would be why its supporters get so agitated and hyperbolic when people call it out for what it is. For example, this thing isn't taking the route Nintendo did. It's taking the route Sega did with the 32X. So stop being dishonest with yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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