Devices that contain 65C802

[Kyle22]

I'm looking for info on the 65C802 chip. I have used search engines, but gotten no real results. I would like to know what devices use these chips. I know they were somewhat popular in Apple & Franklins. I can't find them for sale, and I am looking for one for my 800.

 

If I know what they are used in, then I know what to look for at junk sales, flea markets, etc.

 

Thanks!

 

-Kyle

 

[Rybags]

According to the Wiki article the 65816 was much more popular. Given the '802 uses the older DIP form factor among other things made it much less popular.

 

6502 derivatives were very popular in embedded applications e.g. microwaves, trip computers etc. for a time but these days cheap PIC and AVR types have supplanted most of the older types.

[Kyle22]

Given the '802 uses the older DIP form factor among other things made it much less popular.

 

Yes, I know, unfortunately...

 

I am looking for a 40 pin DIP to put in my Atari 800 (with standard 6502, not C014806).

[JamesD]

The only device you'll be able to find is the CD add on for the NEC TurboGrafx-16 game console.
They seem to be rare and expensive. Any that aren't expensive are probably defective.

[ricortes]

Commiseration. They were sold as upgrades to Apple IIs so if you get lucky, maybe 1 in 1000 will have one in it.

 

I've been fairly studious looking for them for at least the last 20 years w/o luck. I settled for a 65C02.

 

Just not a lot of love for 65802 or 65816. You'd think with them being plug in replacements for the 6502 and found in the IIGS and millions of Super NES respectively, there would be tools galore. Just isn't the case, maybe one or two C compilers and a handful of assemblers.

 

On the bright side, a reason to use emulators. Altirra supports the 65816. It could be used to see just exactly how much faster 65802/16 would be with their instruction set.

[JamesD]

Commiseration. They were sold as upgrades to Apple IIs so if you get lucky, maybe 1 in 1000 will have one in it.

 

I've been fairly studious looking for them for at least the last 20 years w/o luck. I settled for a 65C02.

 

Just not a lot of love for 65802 or 65816. You'd think with them being plug in replacements for the 6502 and found in the IIGS and millions of Super NES respectively, there would be tools galore. Just isn't the case, maybe one or two C compilers and a handful of assemblers.

 

On the bright side, a reason to use emulators. Altirra supports the 65816. It could be used to see just exactly how much faster 65802/16 would be with their instruction set.

The chips were listed on the Apple II mailing list at one time. I should have bought one then. I've been looking since about a year after that with no luck so at least 20 years.

The problem is that people that bought them are hard core Apple II fans and they don't sell their machines.

When those people die, whoever ends up with the machines probably don't even realize it has one.

 

IMHO, the biggest difference is compiler output. The stack handling kills the 6502 for C compiler output.

Once you learn the 65802 it would certainly be quicker to write code for because of the 16 bit support.

[ricortes]

Walking through WeirdStuff Warehouse today thinking 65c802. Saw a pile of keyboard/word processors AlphaSmart Pro for $10 each. Hmmm, made by two ex Apple employees, runs on 2 AA batteries, II GS compatible, it's got to be CMOS.

 

I get home and decide to google it instead of taking it apart. Epic fail.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/8406301108/in/[email protected]/

MC68HC11. An interesting pile of parts but no love. I continue my search.

[Kyle22]

I LOVE WeirdStuff I haven't been there in years, so I'm sure the stuff is different, but that place is one of my all time favorites.

[drac030]

Why 65C802 anyway? Isn't it exactly the same chip as 65C816, just without the 24-bit address bus pulled out?

[Kyle22]

Why 65C802 anyway? Isn't it exactly the same chip as 65C816, just without the 24-bit address bus pulled out?

It is ALMOST the same, the big difference is that it is PIN COMPATIBLE with the 6502. It will plug directly in to an Atari 800 CPU card (that has the 'extra' logic, NOT the newer C014806 type.)

[JamesD]

I think there was only one other device other than the Turbographics-16 CD drive and it made the CD drive look common.

[currentc]

I have some 65C802 chips. They are new in tube WDC W65C802P-8 that I bought to use in my Apple IIe and IIc. I have a couple of extras that I was thinking of putting up on ebay.

[68k]

I have some 65C802 chips. They are new in tube WDC W65C802P-8 that I bought to use in my Apple IIe and IIc. I have a couple of extras that I was thinking of putting up on ebay.

 

...a blast from the past! do you still have any W65C802P-8 chips left? I'm interested in buying them - how much are they?

[68k]

 

...a blast from the past! do you still have any W65C802P-8 chips left? I'm interested in buying them - how much are they?

 

bump!

[Mclaneinc]

He only did 4 posts and was last active on here in November 2014, I think you may be wasting your time...

[JamesD]

Yeah, he dug up the thread right after joining. My ebay search notification for the 65802 hasn't had a hit in an entire decade.
You are probably better off looking up the ability to use a 65816 as a 65802.

Edited January 22, 2018 by JamesD

[Geister]

Back in the 80's I was plying with the idea of using an 816 processor in the Atari. I had though about using an Apple II proto board to make an external card on the PIO bus. I was going to give 512K of static ram and control of the bus. I bought a Turbo-816 card for the C64 and reverse engineered the glue logic to take to internal clock and make it run the 816, but there was something preventing it from working. I finally ran a forty pin cable to the CPU socket and got the board to work at the screaming speed of 1.79mhz.

 

I recently found a box of odd experiments in the basement and had hoped the 816 board was in there, but no such luck. If anybody knows where Bob Tune got to, he may still have that card in the boxes of junk I gave him. What I did find in that box was a 65802 chip that I got as part of an evaluation kit from Western Design Center. If anyone wants to make me an offer...

[+slx]

Wouldn't it be possible to creat a "pseudochip" using an SMD version of the 65C816 on a small PCB with Sally-like pins that does whatever conversion is required to make it work? You probably gather from my description that I am not an electronics guru but there are devices like SwinSID for the C64 that are built that way.

 

There might be hope for the 400/800 as tf_hh wrote that he might make a new edition of the SCCC 65C816 compatible.

[ricortes]

This is one of those great ideas that never went anywhere. By that I mean the 65802 pin compatible with the 6502. For example it wasn't compatible with the XL series or the C64. So the only thing it was a drop in replacement for was the Apple and those users stayed away from it in droves. I think Kyle found a simple 816 => 6502 hack in the comp.sys.atari.8bit newsgroup and built it. Still that was only good for 800 users with the earlier processor board that took a 6502B.

[68k]

Back in the 80's I was plying with the idea of using an 816 processor in the Atari. I had though about using an Apple II proto board to make an external card on the PIO bus. I was going to give 512K of static ram and control of the bus. I bought a Turbo-816 card for the C64 and reverse engineered the glue logic to take to internal clock and make it run the 816, but there was something preventing it from working. I finally ran a forty pin cable to the CPU socket and got the board to work at the screaming speed of 1.79mhz.

 

I recently found a box of odd experiments in the basement and had hoped the 816 board was in there, but no such luck. If anybody knows where Bob Tune got to, he may still have that card in the boxes of junk I gave him. What I did find in that box was a 65802 chip that I got as part of an evaluation kit from Western Design Center. If anyone wants to make me an offer...

 

I will try to make a drop-in replacement for the W65C802 chip but need a few samples of the "real thing" to reverse engineering it, so I'm definitely want to buy it! will send you a PM right now!

[68k]

This is one of those great ideas that never went anywhere. By that I mean the 65802 pin compatible with the 6502. For example it wasn't compatible with the XL series or the C64. So the only thing it was a drop in replacement for was the Apple and those users stayed away from it in droves. I think Kyle found a simple 816 => 6502 hack in the comp.sys.atari.8bit newsgroup and built it. Still that was only good for 800 users with the earlier processor board that took a 6502B.

 

I think the 65C802 will work in a Commodore VIC-20 since it used the originally MOS 6502, and as far as I know both these chips are bus compatible - that's the first thing I will try as soon as I got my hands of that elusive 65C802 chip anyway :-)

[_The Doctor__]

and here we were hoping on our beloved Atari being the first go at it...

Edited January 23, 2018 by _The Doctor__

[68k]

Atari 600/800 XL is up next... I don't have Atari 800 which would make it easier (hardware wise, that is... don't know if software needs to be patched for 65C802).

[Kyle22]

Wouldn't it be possible to creat a "pseudochip" using an SMD version of the 65C816 on a small PCB with Sally-like pins that does whatever conversion is required to make it work? You probably gather from my description that I am not an electronics guru but there are devices like SwinSID for the C64 that are built that way.

 

There might be hope for the 400/800 as tf_hh wrote that he might make a new edition of the SCCC 65C816 compatible.

That is sort of what our Sweet-16 is. a 40 pin DIP 816 on a small board not much larger than the chip with a GAL on the underside of the board.

 

Picture in this thread: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/104214-fine-tooned-engineering/page-2?do=findComment&comment=3772018

[+David_P]

Back in the 80's I was plying with the idea of using an 816 processor in the Atari. I had though about using an Apple II proto board to make an external card on the PIO bus. I was going to give 512K of static ram and control of the bus. I bought a Turbo-816 card for the C64 and reverse engineered the glue logic to take to internal clock and make it run the 816, but there was something preventing it from working. I finally ran a forty pin cable to the CPU socket and got the board to work at the screaming speed of 1.79mhz.

 

I recently found a box of odd experiments in the basement and had hoped the 816 board was in there, but no such luck. If anybody knows where Bob Tune got to, he may still have that card in the boxes of junk I gave him. What I did find in that box was a 65802 chip that I got as part of an evaluation kit from Western Design Center. If anyone wants to make me an offer...

 

 

FTe produced a limited number of '816 drop-in boards for the XL/XE series; there's a PCB with a programmable logic on one side, adn the '816 on the other. The pns, however, are very soft gold, and very prone to breaking off if you remove/insert it with any frequency.

 

I've got one - pulled from one of my 800xls and replaced with a normal CPU. I think there's a thread on the topic somewhere here...