Is it fact that Nintendo Saved Gaming?

[mbd30]

His statement was not just flawed, but hilariously flawed, so much so that I wonder if he's making such statements on purpose. Can anyone interested in classic video games really be that oblivious to the arcade? I mean, judging from his post, he thinks that Donkey Kong, Mario Bros., and Popeye were original titles for the Atari 2600, rather than ports of Nintendo arcade games, which is unbelievable. I suspect he's "trolling" or whatever you want to call it.

Maybe he was trying to say that the NES originally had the same kinds of simple arcade games that were on the VCS, but saying it in a confusing manner.

[high voltage]

His statement was not just flawed, but hilariously flawed, so much so that I wonder if he's making such statements on purpose. Can anyone interested in classic video games really be that oblivious to the arcade? I mean, judging from his post, he thinks that Donkey Kong, Mario Bros., and Popeye were original titles for the Atari 2600, rather than ports of Nintendo arcade games, which is unbelievable. I suspect he's "trolling" or whatever you want to call it.

Hello, of course I know DK MB Popeye, Sky Skipper and others are from the arcades, hey it even says on the VCS box, Nintendo, no really that's obvious. I never even said they're Atari originals.

Pay attention, please.

My statement was not flawed.

Edited December 19, 2013 by high voltage

[Austin]

My statement was not flawed.

 

Just asinine then, perhaps?

[MaximRecoil]

Hello, of course I know DK MB Popeye, Sky Skipper and others are from the arcades, hey it even says on the VCS box, Nintendo, no really that's obvious. I never even said they're Atari originals.

Pay attention, please.

"Pay attention"? That's ironic. I did "pay attention"; you are the one who needs to pay attention to what you are writing. The logical conclusion after reading your post is that you think that Donkey Kong, Mario Bros., and Popeye were original titles for the Atari 2600, rather than ports of Nintendo arcade games.

 

My statement was not flawed.

Yes, it was, and it has already been effectively explained by Austin why it was flawed. If the intended meaning of your post didn't match its literal meaning, then that's your issue, not anyone else's.

[Andromeda Stardust]

LOL guys on the "Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, and Popey were originally Atari VCS games" bit. I do believe I smell troll breath.

 

See, I believe it's the other way 'round the VCS has nice warm cartoony graphics, especially from the humble beginnings of beeps and blips (the quality jump from the colour box games to the silver box games was like....amazing), and memorable tunes (I can still hum Pressure Cooker, Moon Patrol, Big Birds Egg catch, Pitfall II and many more), but of course you had to be there.

 

Of course, over time programmers learned how to get the most out of the console, it's a natural progress. And developers used many tricks they had learned from programming previous console generations. Always remember the NES (Famicom) started off by doing VCS games (DK, Mario Bros, Popeye), so you could say the NES evolved from the VCS

But truthful, comparing NES and VCS is like comparing PC Engine and NES, worlds apart.

 

As I said before in 1988 many gamers had moved on using ST or Amiga, now all the sudden we had super quality graphics, amazing digitized sounds and music, and great gameplay.

As for the Atari being "raw" I stand by my words. It's audiovisuals definitely lack the polish that the NES has, but the same could be said comparing the NES to the 16-bit consoles. The NES was the first system to give the home video game market the vibrancy and appeal that so many golden era arcade games (Donkey Kong, Pacman, etc...) had. Arcade ports on NES actually looked and felt very close to their arcade counterparts. Sure they weren't exact ports, but the appeal was definitely there. You don't get that on the VCS, especially when you have say a rectangle onscreen and you have to use your imagination to pretend it is a space ship. On NES the entire screen is filled with multicolor sprite tiles, and although many earlier games these tiles were blank, there was no pretending what something was. That, and most later NES games had real polyphonic soundtracks instead of rocket blasts, explosions, or crude beeps. Sure Pitfall II had a soundtrack, but that required bus-stuffing the audio register using highly sophisticated expansion chips for the time.

[Jakandsig]

 

Atari lost. You can try to pretend otherwise, but Nintendo BURIED Atari in the late 1980s, and by the 1990s, Atari was irrelevant as a console manufacturer. You can split hairs, whine that Nintendo didn't start this, didn't start that, people were playing (entirely different) games on computers, blah blah blah, but regardless of how you try to revise history, Nintendo was hugely instrumental in the reconstruction of the American video game industry. If it were up to Atari, we would have been playing regurgitations of Centipede and Asteroids in the late 1980s, and the industry wouldn't have grown nearly as quickly.

 

I'm starting to agree with the other members of AtariAge that you're either an overzealous fanboy or a troll. Every thread you've started has the bitter aftertaste of devil's advocacy and historical revision, and you're not satisfied until you've bullied the answer you want from other AA members. You say "Was XXX a failure?," when what you really mean is "XXX wasn't a failure, and I won't be happy until you agree with me." Don't count on me to validate your wrongheaded opinions, and I doubt you'll get that validation from anyone else.

 

No see, you're the dumbass who is revising history and reandomly pulling out your ass anyone who actual ones to have historically accurate information about nintendo and the industry is somehow an atari fan. Everything in this post you made is pure BS because you are an obsessed little boy.

 

You don't even have any examples, In my Xegs thread where did I argue with people who did not agree with me? i have looked through some of your eraly posts, the fact you are still active baffles me because you pull so much shit out your ass you are constantly part of the problem.

 

Nintendo was not instrumental at all. There were other consoles after the 2600 (but you don't know this because you are to busy calling everyone who knows history more than you atari fan boys just because) and the industry was already on a climb before the NES came out. I found a post somewhere by Rouge that even had links to someone making the same statement as you (maybe it was you) that made everything you are saying bs.

 

This thread is for information. Maybe Nintendo did introduce a new thing, maybe they did help in some way, it may be possible, by not the way you are making up and a few others in this thread.

[Jakandsig]

LOL guys on the "Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, and Popey were originally Atari VCS games" bit. I do believe I smell troll breath.

As for the Atari being "raw" I stand by my words. It's audiovisuals definitely lack the polish that the NES has, but the same could be said comparing the NES to the 16-bit consoles. The NES was the first system to give the home video game market the vibrancy and appeal that so many golden era arcade games (Donkey Kong, Pacman, etc...) had. Arcade ports on NES actually looked and felt very close to their arcade counterparts. Sure they weren't exact ports, but the appeal was definitely there. You don't get that on the VCS, especially when you have say a rectangle onscreen and you have to use your imagination to pretend it is a space ship. On NES the entire screen is filled with multicolor sprite tiles, and although many earlier games these tiles were blank, there was no pretending what something was. That, and most later NES games had real polyphonic soundtracks instead of rocket blasts, explosions, or crude beeps. Sure Pitfall II had a soundtrack, but that required bus-stuffing the audio register using highly sophisticated expansion chips for the time.

And so did the colecovision who always seem to be forgotten for some reason.

[Austin]

And so did the colecovision who always seem to be forgotten for some reason.

Hm... I think you are missing the point. There was a level of polish with early Arcade to NES conversions that you didn't have with systems like the Colecovision.

 

Examples:

 

Donkey Kong, Colecovision -

 

http://youtu.be/bT6yiCbxRYk"

 

Donkey Kong, NES -

 

http://youtu.be/gr-6j87tqcQ"

 

Of course, once games like this started coming out, the comparison and/or examples above become completely moot:

 

http://youtu.be/pAeRIQZak3g"

[Jakandsig]

 

Hm... I think you are missing the point. There was a level of polish with early Arcade to NES conversions that you didn't have with systems like the Colecovision.

 

Examples:

 

Donkey Kong, Colecovision -

 

http://youtu.be/bT6yiCbxRYk"]

 

Donkey Kong, NES -

 

http://youtu.be/gr-6j87tqcQ"]

 

Of course, once games like this started coming out, the comparison and/or examples above become completely moot:

 

http://youtu.be/pAeRIQZak3g"]

Well that's just one example. There are many in boths favor.

 

And I would not say NG is a good comparison. Because Coleco did not have many side scrolling platformers, and NGII ran on the MSX.

[Jakandsig]

Of course the background graphics might take a hit.

 

Also NGII NES is not an arcade game.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Jakandsig

[Austin]

Also NGII NES is not an arcade game.

 

And? My point is that, after a period of time, what you guys are bickering about didn't matter anymore. The NES evolved well past the traditional early arcade game days (but to be fair, the entire industry did as a whole). There was a level of polish in so many of the NES's AAA games that you just didn't find on prior consoles, period. Even the early black box arcade ports ran and animated smoother than many (if not all) arcade-to-console conversions prior. Stardust had it right on that part.

 

Still though, if you want to argue the quality of the arcade conversions that appeared on both the NES and Colecovision, I would be interested in seeing a video of a Colecovision one that obviously beats the NES version by a landslide. C'mon, post away!

[Jakandsig]

 

And? My point is that, after a period of time, what you guys are bickering about didn't matter anymore. The NES evolved well past the traditional early arcade game days (but to be fair, the entire industry did as a whole). There was a level of polish in so many of the NES's AAA games that you just didn't find on prior consoles, period. Even the early black box arcade ports ran and animated smoother than many (if not all) arcade-to-console conversions prior. Stardust had it right on that part.

 

Still though, if you want to argue the quality of the arcade conversions that appeared on both the NES and Colecovision, I would be interested in seeing a video of a Colecovision one that obviously beats the NES version by a landslide. C'mon, post away!

My point which you missed is NGII is on the MSX, which in turn could run on the Colecovision.

 

Also your point is kind of invalid. NES was not even able to produce certain arcade graphic only slightly before its time let alone currently outside a select few games. Evolving past early arcade games is an odd statement. The entire industry as a whole is also just as odd, that happened before the NES.

 

There are arcade games were the coloecovision is better than the NES version, I do not know however where you got the word landslide from.

 

Overall I think this post is mostly confused and is based on thinking I think the Colecovision will beat the NES in a landslide and that throwing a game that is not an arcade games, that can run on the consoles you are trying to say cannot run it, is a tad silly.

[Jakandsig]

Now, yes, NES would later have other games that would beat it out, although arcade port wise at least a good portion of the NES life till maybe 88+ was the coleco comparable.

[mbd30]

Nintendo was not instrumental at all. There were other consoles after the 2600 (but you don't know this because you are to busy calling everyone who knows history more than you atari fan boys just because) and the industry was already on a climb before the NES came out. I found a post somewhere by Rouge that even had links to someone making the same statement as you (maybe it was you) that made everything you are saying bs.

After the crash, the American video game industry went from being a multi-billion dollar industry to being a hundred million dollar industry.

 

After the NES, consoles and video games started selling huge again. SUPER MARIO BROS. 3 ALONE GROSSED OVER ONE BILLION DOLLARS.

 

There were other consoles besides the NES but nothing else came close in North America in terms of popularity and sales.

 

Nintendo was instrumental in reviving the video game industry in the US.

Edited December 28, 2013 by mbd30

[CatPix]

My point which you missed is NGII is on the MSX, which in turn could run on the Colecovision.

Except that standard MSX computer (and so, games, especially later games) have 64 Ko of RAM, twice the amount of RAM in a Colecovision. sure, many MSX games can run on a Colecovision, but not ALL MSX games Unless maybe you use carts with additional RAM, or the SGM.

[Austin]

My point which you missed is NGII is on the MSX, which in turn could run on the Colecovision.

 

Find it for me then. Via a quick search, I don't see a single mention of the game on the MSX. Personally, I doubt a MSX version of any Ninja Gaiden game exists--perhaps you are confusing it with a different game.

 

Also your point is kind of invalid. NES was not even able to produce certain arcade graphic only slightly before its time let alone currently outside a select few games. Evolving past early arcade games is an odd statement. The entire industry as a whole is also just as odd, that happened before the NES.

 

Please re-read my paragraph, and it would be appreciated if you write out legible sentences so we can at least try to understand the point you are attempting to make.

 

There are arcade games were the coloecovision is better than the NES version, I do not know however where you got the word landslide from.

 

Then please post links to them. If you are intent on making a statement, please give an example.

 

Overall I think this post is mostly confused and is based on thinking I think the Colecovision will beat the NES in a landslide and that throwing a game that is not an arcade games, that can run on the consoles you are trying to say cannot run it, is a tad silly.

 

How can a post be confused? Does it have a brain? Can it think for itself? Hmm. Interesting. Please tell me more!

[Andromeda Stardust]

So what if the Coleco had more RAM than the NES? The NES has 2kbytes instruction RAM and 2kbytes of video RAM. Either can be expanded using extra hardware inside the cartridge. It also has a separate bus/ROM for graphics and data. No other console that I'm aware did this. So while the Coleco had to load all of the graphics data into RAM, the dual bus NES could load up to 8kbytes of tiles at a time from ROM, leaving the CPU+2kbytes of memory free to calculate physics, execute instructions, store variables, etc with virtually no tax on the CPU to draw graphics onscreen since the PPU handled all of that. Exact locations of sprite tiles can be set by writing to a specific register, and this is stored in PPU RAM. Bam, and you get a perfect little 8x8 or 8x16 tile of colorful pixelated bliss. Multiply that by 64 and overlay it on top of an entire sprite-filled background that can be effortlessly scrolled either horizontally or vertically. Add bankswitching into the mix and tilesets can be swapped out instantly with zero load time. I'd like to see any other pre-crash system do that.

Edited December 28, 2013 by stardust4ever

[gamecat80]

This thread is starting to get crazy.

 

The ColecoVision and it's launch game, Donkey Kong, were released in the summer of 1982 --- 1 year before the release of the Famicom, and 3+ years before the NES. Donkey Kong on the NES was released in the summer of 1986. Early Famicom/NES games like Excitebike, Duck Hunt and Wild Gunman were more "simple" and could easily be done on the ColecoVision. And games like Antarctic Adventure are quite similar on both the CV and NES. The NES had the ability to "cheat" with extra hardware inside it's cartridges, so later games tended to have deeper gameplay.

 

Look, I'm not saying the CV is as powerful as the NES. It isn't. The NES is more powerful and has more colors (though I sometimes find the NES colors a bit "dull") and better scrolling capabilities. I grew up with the NES during it's golden years of the late 80s in the US. But let's not dismiss the CV as "just a pre-crash console". It was a powerful pre-crash console that was looking forward

[+wood_jl]

Who is to say who "saved" gaming? What is for certain is that Atari, Coleco, and Nintendo were all instrumental in *advancing* the state of home console gaming, all at different points in the timeline. That's not arguable. Whether or not one-or-the-other "saved" gaming is completely arguable, we'll never all agree, so each should just take it as an experience unto oneself. I happen to enjoy all 3 of them, and with a modern flashcart (and AV mod in the case of Atari and Coleco) I have so much fun with them that I hardly have time to contemplate what this controversy is about.

[high voltage]

As mentioned before, NES was there at the right place at the right time (it wasn't easy and they worked hard (source: Game Over)), but it could have been Sega or even Atari or someone else instead.

Nintendo did it for USA, big deal to them, but the real winner was/is PC gaming.

 

What pisses me off is that the NES fanboys get it wrong with 'oh look how amazing, Nintendo did this and invented that, Nintendo changed/saved video gaming'.They truly believe that.

They're getting the generations wrong, the year of the crash wrong, and obviously strongly believe there weren't any video games before NES, but they know of ET, and that's all.

Short sighted all of them....

Edited December 28, 2013 by high voltage

[The Usotsuki]

Then were Pac-Man and Galaga chopped liver?

[Punisher5.0]

This was long overdue