The original front-loader NES is a very reliable piece of hardware

[MaximRecoil]

Despite their bad reputation for reliablity, how often do they have real hardware or other component failures? Practically every problem anyone ever has with them is the result of "dirty" contacts in the 72-pin connector and/or the game cartridge, which is not a hardware or component failure, it is a maintenance issue.

 

Granted, the unique quasi-ZIF 72-pin connector is more susceptible to dirty contacts being a problem, i.e., with the same level of "dirt" on NES console/game contacts and on Atari 2600 console/game contacts, the Atari 2600 is far more likely to load the game properly than the front-loader NES is. However, when both consoles and their cartridges are actually clean, I would say that they are both equally reliable in terms of properly loading the game, though I would give the overall edge in reliability to the NES due to having less switches to go bad, and having more reliable switches to begin with.

 

The NES's PCB is higher quality than the Atari 2600's too, though this doesn't generally affect reliability. It comes into play if you are going to do rework or modifications to the PCB, because the traces and pads on the Atari 2600 PCB are much more delicate, thus more easily damaged by heat from a soldering iron and/or the suction from a "solder sucker".

 

What were some truly unreliable consoles, i.e., ones where actual component failures were likely? I briefly had a flaky ColecoVision when I was a kid, which if I remember right, is a relatively common problem that is caused by a poor quality power switch. I've owned two Atari 2600 and two Atari 7800 consoles, and they've both been very reliable, though on one of the 7800s I had to fix a solder joint on one of the card edge connector legs because it had a void in it, which made 7800 games (but not 2600 games) intermittently display in black and white (wiggling the cartridge would make it go in and out of color).

[RickR]

Bally Astrocade is the world champion of unreliable consoles.

[BassGuitari]

Astrocade, Channel F, Colecovision, and DINA immediately come to mind. I've had a few bad Intellivisions, too. And I've heard things about the APF M/P1000. Jaguar CD systems are notoriously flaky, but I don't know if that's from component failure per se or just shoddy design.

Any time I see an Astrocade, I just assume it doesn't work. And if by some miracle it does work, I know it's only a matter of time before it stops working for no reason.

[jmetal88]

My NES has bad capacitors in the power supply. I get a horrible buzz in the audio if I use it with a 9VAC adapter like it was designed for. Since I've been too lazy to replace them, I just power the thing with a hefty 9VDC power adapter that already has a rectifier and filter capacitors inside. Cuts the buzzing right out.

[MaximRecoil]

My NES has bad capacitors in the power supply. I get a horrible buzz in the audio if I use it with a 9VAC adapter like it was designed for. Since I've been too lazy to replace them, I just power the thing with a hefty 9VDC power adapter that already has a rectifier and filter capacitors inside. Cuts the buzzing right out.

Yeah, electrolytic capacitors inevitably go bad eventually, some earlier than others. They are like tires on a car, which will go bad with time whether you use them or not (either by going bald from driving or dry rot / weather cracking from sitting). I've replaced all of them on certain vintage gizmos and PCBs I own just as a preventative measure, before they go bad. I haven't done it to my NES yet, but maybe I should.

 

It is strange that the external NES wall wart is nothing but a stepdown transformer, with the actual DC power supply being internal. I wonder why they did it that way. Were any non-Nintendo consoles like that?

Edited December 20, 2013 by MaximRecoil

[Seob]

Capacitors will go bad, so every console needs some sort of cap replacement some day. Of course the gamegear is know for bad caps, also the vectrex will need new caps if you want to keep it running. The amiga cd32 needs a caps replacement also since 2 caps come factory installed the wrong way around.

Same with lasers in optical drives, they will need to be replaced some day. Thus making cartridge based consoles a bid more reliable.

[+wood_jl]

Aside from the finicky cart slot, I think they're quite reliable. However, I've really never had any trouble from any of the other cartridge-based consoles either, personally.

 

Upon buying my used NES, I Ebay'd a cheap replacement cart slot, replaced the old one (and chucked it in the trash) and stuffed a loaded PowerPak in there and never looked back. So I don't change cartridges and there's little to no wear. Then I read (somewhere on these forums) that I should have cleaned and re-bent the original's contacts instead of a cheap replacement. Too late.

 

But not only is the console reliable, but the controllers (I know there's not much to them, but look at other consoles' controller failures) and the light gun seem pretty durable, too.

[Algus]

I've used one of those "cheap Chinese knockoffs" for years and never had a problem with it. I suppose quality varies (and I bought mine before NES was super hot as a retro collectible) but it was so cheap that I'd have no issue periodically replacing it.

[Tr3vor]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the Xbox 360 in this thread. The original models were terrible.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Tr3vor

[RickR]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the Xbox 360 in this thread. The original models were terrible.

 

Oooh, he's right. Original Xbox 360 is the champ. It's just not the first console that comes to mind when I'm on AtariAge.

[Reaperman]

I'll toss Cybiko under the bus. It had rechargable batteries that really needed some basic charging circuitry...but they didn't bother with it. End result is that if you left them plugged in over night, they'd most likely be dead.

 

I've got 3 of them--all killed their stock cells (I bought 12 on clearance and passed them out to all my friends.). Luckily swapping the batteries and charging externally is as easy as removing a screw--which was actually an uncommonly difficult move at that time, now everything has that.

 

Wireless, inter-tainment

Edited December 20, 2013 by Reaperman

[Tr3vor]

 

Oooh, he's right. Original Xbox 360 is the champ. It's just not the first console that comes to mind when I'm on AtariAge.

 

Because there's totally not an active "Modern Gaming" subforum...

 

But yeah, I've never seen a dead NES.

Game Gears are also crappy. I have 2 of them and neither work. I need to order a cap kit

Edited December 20, 2013 by Tr3vor

[Austin]

The "fat" PS2 models had a fairly high defect rate as well. Not as high as the original 360, but still up there.

[Cynicaster]

Despite their bad reputation for reliablity, how often do they have real hardware or other component failures? Practically every problem anyone ever has with them is the result of "dirty" contacts in the 72-pin connector and/or the game cartridge, which is not a hardware or component failure, it is a maintenance issue.

Sounds kind of apologist to me. Call it a maintenance issue if you want, call it a reliability issue if you want; semantics aside, the salient fact is that it's a crappy design that is prone to problems. The whole insert-cart-and-push-down mechanism is a glowing example of needless complexity, with the unnecessary moving parts introducing failure modes that would otherwise not exist.

 

I'm sure there is some marketing reason why Nintendo did it--perhaps to make it look less like a game console at a time when game consoles were anathema to retailers--but that's beside the point; judged strictly on its functional merits, the design sucks, and constitutes a marked step backward from what preceded it.

 

Great game library, though!

 

My other systems:

 

I remember "wearing out" my original Atari 2600, which was a light-sixer. The cartridge slot worked fine, but the joystick ports and AC adapter port eventually crapped out, presumably having developed broken solder joints from too many plug/unplug cycles. Probably an easy fix, but we ended up just getting a new one, if I recall.

 

Our 7800 worked fine for the time we had it, right up until we gave it away (yeah, I know).

 

Original model Genny worked fine until we gave it away (yeah, I know).

 

My original model PS1 was a cheaply made POS, but it did still play games when I sold it.

 

Original model PS2 was (and still is) rock solid.

 

On my PS3, I had to replace the laser head after a few months because it wouldn't read discs.

[Seob]

I have a dead nes. need to find out what the problem is.

unfortunately replacing caps on the game gear isn't always succesfull. got one that i did a caps replacement on, a led mod, but it still shuts down it self.

[boxpressed]

I've puchased 12 Astrocades, 9 of which were described as "working."

 

Of those 12, only 5 work reliably (and 4 of those 5 were described as working).

 

For major pre-Crash consoles, nothing comes close to the Astrocade for unreliability. But finding a working one is totally worth it.

[Great Hierophant]

The original Gameboy was Nintendo's only other console to suffer from widespread reliability issues. The screen would develop dead vertical lines down the screen over time. Mine did back in the ay so but fortunately it was on the side of the console. Later it was discovered that the connector for the LCD screen would become loose Some heat from a heat gun or a soldering iron does the trick.

 

Nintendo's problems are annoying but easily fixable.

 

The TurboDuo I hear also has a serious problem with bad caps.

 

The Jaguar doesn't surprise me as it is a product of Tramiel Atari. Tramiel's Commodore and Atari products tend to have a high failure rate.

[Austin]

The TurboDuo I hear also has a serious problem with bad caps.

 

The Jaguar doesn't surprise me as it is a product of Tramiel Atari. Tramiel's Commodore and Atari products tend to have a high failure rate.

 

Yep, the DUO can be problematic thanks to bad caps.

 

The Jag itself is pretty solid. The Jag CD on the other hand is a different story all together.

[+pboland]

I've owned a lot of consoles and I mean many multiples of each. I think it's easier to list the console that were rock solid.

 

- Sega Master System (version 1 made by Tonka)

- Atari 2600 four switch model (wood grain or vader)

- Odyssey2 (the console itself, not including the controls)

 

Never had a Master System that didn't work from day one (I've owned 8 of them). Out of about 20 2600's four didn't function but they were busted up petty bad. As for the OD2's I've owned about 12 of them. Two had issues, but like the 2600's it looked as if someone jumped on them.

[Rex Dart]

I recently pulled my old Game Gear out to swap carrying cases (old foam lining had disintegrated), and was disappointed to find that it no longer powers up. I guess they are as unreliable as I've been hearing. Not looking forward to the capacitor replacement.

 

 

I guess the NES' main issue is the connector being dirty. I did the repair on mine where you carefully bend the pins up so that they make better contact... I think it was a mistake. The system grips carts way too hard now, so hard that they often won't boot if pressed down into the system. Should've just boiled it or whatever the current trick is.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Rex Dart

[+thegoldenband]

I've had plenty of Atari 2600 consoles with problems: bad chips, bad power jacks, bad controller inputs, bad "chiclet" capacitors that make the screen randomly go fuzzy, etc. They're fairly sturdy but by no means bulletproof.

 

Many Intellivision I consoles suffer from an overheating problem that makes them crash. The Intellivision II doesn't seem to have that issue, but the controllers are very failure-prone, unfortunately.

 

The Virtual Boy is another one that, as I understand it, is almost guaranteed to fail with time, thanks to a bad adhesive used on the ribbon cable.

 

The original (Model 1) Genesis had capacitor problems, but the revised Model 2 is pretty tough. I've never heard of any significant hardware issues with it.

[RickR]

 

Because there's totally not an active "Modern Gaming" subforum...

 

 

That "Modern Gaming" forum is like Abercrombie at the mall to an old-timer like me.

[MaximRecoil]

Sounds kind of apologist to me. Call it a maintenance issue if you want, call it a reliability issue if you want; semantics aside, the salient fact is that it's a crappy design that is prone to problems. The whole insert-cart-and-push-down mechanism is a glowing example of needless complexity, with the unnecessary moving parts introducing failure modes that would otherwise not exist.

The difference between something not working because it is dirty, and something not working because of a component failure, is not a matter of "semantics". And it is not as if you need to clean it before every use. A clean NES and clean cartridges will generally work reliably without any further cleaning for the next few years.

 

I guess the NES' main issue is the connector being dirty. I did the repair on mine where you carefully bend the pins up so that they make better contact... I think it was a mistake. The system grips carts way too hard now, so hard that they often won't boot if pressed down into the system. Should've just boiled it or whatever the current trick is.

Yes, in my experience, bending the pins is a mistake. I tried it years ago on various NESs, because it seems to make sense that it would work, but if you really think about it, that odd 72-pin connector that Nintendo used is designed to be loose when inserting the cartridge, which is why they referred to it as a ZIF (zero insertion force) connector, even though it wasn't truly a ZIF connector (more like a quasi-ZIF connector). They were loose when they were brand new. Pushing the cartridge down after inserting it is what is supposed to then make the tight contact (which is how all ZIF connectors work). Since it is not a standard card-edge connector design like is used in top-loaders and arcade machines, trying to transform it into one by bending the pins is an exercise in futility. Death grip connectors (i.e., original connectors that have had the pins bent out, or aftermarket connectors which have a death grip to begin with) tend to only work when you don't push the cartridge down, and even then, only some of the time (or most of the time at best). But remember when your NES was brand new? It worked the first time, every time, for a few years, at least the ones my friends and I had in the '80s did. My cousin Mike got his when they were first released nationally in '86, and it didn't start blinking until '90 or '91, and he didn't even take care of his stuff; it was cruddy and I'd seen him smack it plenty of times when he'd get mad at a game he was playing. It wasn't until about the mid '90s that everyone realized that it was likely that every NES was destined to become a "Blinking NES", and not just the ones that were abused (like my cousin's NES).

 

I believe that any original Nintendo-manufactured 72-pin connector that hasn't been bent out of shape, either by attempts to fix it or by use of a Game Genie, only needs a proper cleaning to work 100% again (and clean the contacts on the motherboard that the 72-pin connector slides onto as well).

 

Here's a video showing that my NES works the first time, every time with its original 72-pin connector:

 

 

You can see from how easily the cartridges are inserted and removed that it is an original connector and the pins haven't been bent up to try to tighten the contact or anything. That NES was given to me in the late '90s because it was "broken". I tried all the various things, such as first cleaning the original connector with isopropyl alcohol, then bending the pins on a spare original connector I had to make my own death grip connector, and then trying a new aftermarket death grip connector. The best it would do is work most of the time with one of the death grip connectors, and only with the cartridge in the "up" position.

 

At some point, based on work with arcade hardware and such, I determined that isopropyl alcohol isn't much of a contact cleaner. I discovered this when I used a pencil eraser on some arcade boardset card edge contacts that I'd already "cleaned" with alcohol, and the eraser came back black, and the contacts were visibly cleaner than before. Ultimately I discovered Bar Keepers Friend, the active ingredient being oxalic acid, and that stuff truly cleans contacts, quickly and easily, with no elbow grease required. So I pulled my NES's original unaltered 72-pin connector out of the drawer, went at it with a toothbrush dipped in a thin solution of BKF and water, and the NES worked perfectly, and it still does a few years later.

Edited December 21, 2013 by MaximRecoil

[CatPix]

A good bathing in white vinegar does the trick, too. 30 minutes in a bowl of crystal vinegar (wine vinegar works too, but your console might smell of cheap wine if you use it :3 ) and voilà, it's as new. Really since that, I use vinegar for cleaning everything. This and cardboard. sounds stupid, but cardboard act like the eraser.

[MaximRecoil]

A good bathing in white vinegar does the trick, too. 30 minutes in a bowl of crystal vinegar (wine vinegar works too, but your console might smell of cheap wine if you use it :3 ) and voilà, it's as new. Really since that, I use vinegar for cleaning everything. This and cardboard. sounds stupid, but cardboard act like the eraser.

Yes, the acetic acid in vinegar will cut through oxidation and other contaminates eventually. It isn't as powerful as oxalic acid, but it will work. Cardboard is a mild abrasive, much like an eraser, so that's where its effectiveness comes from. Bar Keepers Friend contains oxalic acid and a mild abrasive (much milder than e.g. Comet or Ajax), which is why it makes for such an excellent contact cleaner; very quickly and easily.