gorfcadet Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 CPUWIZ, These boards are amazing. You have done some terrific work; I think they are art beyond just what they can actually do. Now all we need are some new stock cart shells (multi-colored and clear would rock) and for someone to find a crate of unused Pokeys! So here is my question: I've been playing my 8-bit X-Mas cart from RetroUSB lately and I love the built in Christmas lights. Stella's Stocking is more fun to play IMHO, but now I'm wondering if your board could handle or be modded to handle leds similar to the 8-bit X-Mas line? I would love to see a Christmas cart for the old 7800 one year with the lights and all just to show the NES fans where the best homebrews are really at. If nothing else I could totally see a collection of Christmas themed hacks of some of Bob's games like Super Circus Atari Age. That clown would be a great Santa! Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or just have a fantastic week guys. If CPUWIZ, Bob, and some of the others here had been calling the shots, the console wars may have gone down very differently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Looking forward to working with these boards. Bob Not as much as we are looking forward to seeing what you can do with them!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColecoGemini Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 So would these new boards be used as a competitor, or a complement to the XM? Seems like some XM-only games will run on them without really needing the XM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Pac Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Yeah you can talk about the XM but it hasn't been officialy released. I for one am wondering will it ever come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LidLikesIntellivision Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 So would these new boards be used as a competitor, or a complement to the XM? Seems like some XM-only games will run on them without really needing the XM. Hmm... I wasn't thinking in a complement to the XM. A game that requires both VersaBoard and the XM! Even more possibilities! Sounds good to me. --EDIT Not that I was considering a competitor. It's was a very nice alternative. A very cool improvement by CPUWIZ! :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 So would these new boards be used as a competitor, or a complement to the XM? Seems like some XM-only games will run on them without really needing the XM. I see it as a complement to the XM. Remember that the XM is more than just a POKEY chip; it has lots of other features which make it a worthwhile accessory, even with everything these new boards can do. Most of the features of the XM can be selectively enabled or disabled in a game, which makes it easier to create games that can be played either with the XM or with the stock 7800 console. If a game uses the High Score Cartridge functionality, for example, it can simply disable the high score table if the XM is not present. Sound is a bit different: if you want your game to have the best sound possible with or without the XM, and if you can't put a POKEY chip in the cartridge, you'll need two (almost) completely different sound designs: one for POKEY if the XM is present, and another for TIA if it is not. That adds a lot of extra work. Giving developers the option to put a POKEY chip in the cartridge allows them to standardize on POKEY (if they choose to), secure in the knowledge that even players without the XM can enjoy it. But that in itself doesn't make the XM superfluous. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 So here is my question: I've been playing my 8-bit X-Mas cart from RetroUSB lately and I love the built in Christmas lights. Stella's Stocking is more fun to play IMHO, but now I'm wondering if your board could handle or be modded to handle leds similar to the 8-bit X-Mas line? I would love to see a Christmas cart for the old 7800 one year with the lights and all just to show the NES fans where the best homebrews are really at. You can do a lot more than just add LED's, just google for projects using a PIC12F629. It all comes down to how much the PSU can handle. LOL Merry Christmas, everyone. And let's not turn this into another XM discussion please. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 I've just sent off the design to China, this will be my last contribution to the 7800, unless I can actually recoup some of the investment (highly doubtful). This board is gonna be 4 times as expensive as the one in my avatar. Oh yeah, I also added support for 32K and 64K chips, since a lot of people have stock of them. I wrote some PLD code to do this, when I got Super Circus from Bob. If it were see-through, this is what it's gonna look like... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmervine Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 @cpuwiz....thank you for doing this...looking forward to seeing what great games can now be developed for the 7800!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Giving developers the option to put a POKEY chip in the cartridge allows them to standardize on POKEY (if they choose to), secure in the knowledge that even players without the XM can enjoy it. But that in itself doesn't make the XM superfluous. It also will save countless numbers of 7800 common carts from being cannibalized for the POKEY chip/boards. Just think of all the Ballblazer carts that will be spared an untimely death! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 CPUWIZ, can you work out something with AL to get these produced in batches for use in the storefront? So if, say, PMP were to make "Kangaroo" or "Pitfall II", the games could get thrown onto these cards through AL and sold directly, with you getting some of the cost back? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 24, 2013 Author Share Posted December 24, 2013 We usually do, many of the games in the store run on my boards. We'll see, I have a feeling that he is cooking something up himself (well, someone else doing it for him), since he hasn't commented on any of the new board designs. Maybe I should have done a Kickstarter, LOL. I just went over all the costs for parts, design etc., without the VersaBoard, I am already over $1400.00 in. But then again, every time someone takes money upfront, something weird happens. @Ben: MANY MORE BALLBLAZER CARTS WILL DIE, BECAUSE OF THE NEW BOARD! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Maybe I should have done a Kickstarter, LOL. I just went over all the costs for parts, design etc., without the VersaBoard, I am already over $1400.00 in. I would be in!!! @Ben: MANY MORE BALLBLAZER CARTS WILL DIE, BECAUSE OF THE NEW BOARD! Really? What for...the POKEY chip itself? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 25, 2013 Author Share Posted December 25, 2013 Yes, Ballblazer is the cheapest source for POKEY chips. Anyone want to donate a few POKEY's to me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Yes, Ballblazer is the cheapest source for POKEY chips. Anyone want to donate a few POKEY's to me? I'll check...I may still have a few to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) I see it as a complement to the XM. Remember that the XM is more than just a POKEY chip; it has lots of other features which make it a worthwhile accessory, even with everything these new boards can do. Most of the features of the XM can be selectively enabled or disabled in a game, which makes it easier to create games that can be played either with the XM or with the stock 7800 console. If a game uses the High Score Cartridge functionality, for example, it can simply disable the high score table if the XM is not present. Sound is a bit different: if you want your game to have the best sound possible with or without the XM, and if you can't put a POKEY chip in the cartridge, you'll need two (almost) completely different sound designs: one for POKEY if the XM is present, and another for TIA if it is not. That adds a lot of extra work. Giving developers the option to put a POKEY chip in the cartridge allows them to standardize on POKEY (if they choose to), secure in the knowledge that even players without the XM can enjoy it. But that in itself doesn't make the XM superfluous. Don't forget the XBoard. So there's cart based Pokeys, XM based Pokeys, and XBoard based Pokeys. Maybe CPU or someone else could make a stripped down/minimalistic cart port interface with a Pokey slot on it so those that don't have the XM or XBoard can benefit from Pokey goodness without having to waste Pokey chips on each new homebrew release. Look at the Game Genie/Shark cart connectors on the 16-Bit consoles for inspiration on size. Maybe Kickstart that.... Edited December 25, 2013 by Lynxpro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I know Brad at Best probably wont cut deals on pokeys if bought in bulk . Anyone else that would have any ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 25, 2013 Author Share Posted December 25, 2013 DMaybe CPU or someone else could make a stripped down/minimalistic cart port interface with a Pokey slot on it so those that don't have the XM or XBoard can benefit from Pokey goodness without having to waste Pokey chips on each new homebrew release. Look at the Game Genie/Shark cart connectors on the 16-Bit consoles for inspiration on size. Maybe Kickstart that.... Hmm. Does anyone know if connectors, like the ones Curt used for the High Score Cart, are readily available? I am sure he won't mind, that I am hot linking his picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Don't forget the XBoard. So there's cart based Pokeys, XM based Pokeys, and XBoard based Pokeys. That's right. I have an XBoard in my 7800, in fact, so I should have remembered! Maybe CPU or someone else could make a stripped down/minimalistic cart port interface with a Pokey slot on it so those that don't have the XM or XBoard can benefit from Pokey goodness without having to waste Pokey chips on each new homebrew release. Look at the Game Genie/Shark cart connectors on the 16-Bit consoles for inspiration on size. Maybe Kickstart that.... I don't know ... if you're going to go that route, you might as well wait for the XM. I have a feeling that any interest there might be for an external POKEY module will vanish once the XM is finished. I seem to recall that Curt once raised the possibility of making an "XM Lite", with only one or two features included (either the High Score Cartridge or POKEY; I don't remember), but there wasn't a lot of interest and the idea was dropped. If you opt for an internal POKEY upgrade instead, then you're right back to something like the XBoard. I do know that the original HSC's pass-through design is very wobbly and awkward, so a similar form factor wouldn't be very appealing. I own a HSC also, but it's one of the ones with the battery-drain problem, and I must say that I don't use it regularly. It would be really nice to have an alternative to original POKEY chips. A full-featured POKEY includes lots of features which go to waste when it is used in 7800 cartridges only for sound. The manufacturing costs would probably blow this idea right out of the water, but it should certainly be possible to make a smaller POKEY, as was done with other popular sound chips over the years. The AY-3-8910, for example, also started out in a DIP-40 package ... ... and was eventually shrunken down to this ... ... but curiously, Atari never seems to have done something similar with POKEY. The only exception I can think of is the Quad-POKEY module that was used in arcades: (EDIT: I just noticed that there's another thread about this very subject!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Sound is a bit different: if you want your game to have the best sound possible with or without the XM, and if you can't put a POKEY chip in the cartridge, you'll need two (almost) completely different sound designs: one for POKEY if the XM is present, and another for TIA if it is not. That adds a lot of extra work. Giving developers the option to put a POKEY chip in the cartridge allows them to standardize on POKEY (if they choose to), secure in the knowledge that even players without the XM can enjoy it. But that in itself doesn't make the XM superfluous. Excellent points, jaybird3rd. Also with projects like this one down the road... http://atariage.com/forums/topic/174793-help-choose-my-next-sound-update/ ...there would be a need for a third different sound design accounting for the Yamaha YM2151 chip. These boards are indeed a very nice compliment for the XM, but agree absolutely in no way makes the XM superfluous. Additionally, it exemplifies again how the XM with a long term view in mind saves time, money, and other resources. Nevertheless, this is a labor of love on CPUWIZ's part which is very much appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I proposed at one point the idea of implementing an XM-alike in modern hardware, as I figure it would be more cost-efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Allan Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 It would be cool to have a quarter-height cart with a Pokey chip in it that you could keep plugged into the 7800 and just plug carts into that. Allan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 It would be cool to have a quarter-height cart with a Pokey chip in it that you could keep plugged into the 7800 and just plug carts into that. Allan What a novel idea! The pokey cart coming soon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted December 26, 2013 Author Share Posted December 26, 2013 I'll ask again, does anyone know where to get the connector? Does anyone have a broken 7800, so I can get my hands on a cart port? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I'll ask again, does anyone know where to get the connector? Does anyone have a broken 7800, so I can get my hands on a cart port? I'll check tonight....I'll also check and see if I have any spare Ballblazer carts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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