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ATR-8000 (and other) CP/M System disks here

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7 hours ago, a8isa1 said:

Question:  Will your CPMBOOT then work on a new disk created from my new ATR?    

 

ATR could be a while in coming.  First attempt generated sector error(s) on the copy.  CP/M DDINIT formatted without bad sectors being detected.

 

-SteveS

 

 

James is right.  The ATR uses mixed density formats, the first sector is always 128bytes (single density).  the system tracks are 512byte sectors, and the rest of the disk can have 256, 512, or `1024 byte sectors, depending on the option you chose during ddinit.  No Atari disk image utility is equipped to deal with that, in fact none of the readily available Pea Sea utilities to image disk are equipped to deal with that either.  That latter fact is the reason why the fellow created this way to make system disks from downloadable files, it is at present the only way, short of a very special disk image tool like Cryoflux or Greaseweasel, which require special hardware to create and generate disks and disk images.  So the fellow has done us a huge favor by making this.  He leverages the fact that the Atari by default uses mixed-density media.  All double-density Atari disks have three single-density sectors as the first on the disk, whatever the disk format is afterwards, single or double.  So an Atari formatted double-density disk is a good starting point for the utility.  You could use someone elses' double-density disk, but it would not have a single-density sector at the beginning and so would not be bootable, though CP/M might be able to read the data and run files on the disk, it could not read the boot tracks at IPL.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeffrey Worley

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10 hours ago, sup8pdct said:

Please note that the files that come with the different versions of CP/M cannot be interchanged for the most part. The BIOS is different and the files match the differences. There is a text file listing the changes. 

 

Can you please format a double sided 256 byte sector 5.25 disk and copy the files from the atr above onto it. Dont make it a system disk. Then make an atr image file of that disk from the drive connected to the atr8000. Then if you can, make an atr file using an xf551 of that same disk makeing sure that both read 1440 sectors. Please post both versions in this thread. That way, others dont have to use magnets ,witch craft and wizardry  to create the cp/m files disk. I had to assemble that disk by hand using a hex editor. Couldnt wrangle the double sided as ATR8000 and XF551 handle the 2nd side differently and did my head in.  Percom is different again!

 

It was a team effort to create the cpm boot file. My ATR8000 wont format (suspect fdc as mine has 1793 instead of 1797) so had to put file out there for others to test.

 

James

 

Moonlight_Mile has a slew of 1797 controller chips, three I think, new, so ask him for one.  That way you can get your ATR up and running the way it should be.  Also, some 1050's come with that controller the 97 chip, with a pin broken off.  You can replace the pin and have a chip for your ATR, and swap the 93 into the 1050, which won't know the difference.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

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3 hours ago, Jeffrey Worley said:

James is right.  The ATR uses mixed density formats, the first sector is always 128bytes (single density).  the system tracks are 512byte sectors, and the rest of the disk can have 256, 512, or `1024 byte sectors, depending on the option you chose during ddinit.  No Atari disk image utility is equipped to deal with that, in fact none of the readily available Pea Sea utilities to image disk are equipped to deal with that either.  That latter fact is the reason why the fellow created this way to make system disks from downloadable files, it is at present the only way, short of a very special disk image tool like Cryoflux or Greaseweasel, which require special hardware to create and generate disks and disk images.  So the fellow has done us a huge favor by making this.  He leverages the fact that the Atari by default uses mixed-density media.  All double-density Atari disks have three single-density sectors as the first on the disk, whatever the disk format is afterwards, single or double.  So an Atari formatted double-density disk is a good starting point for the utility.  You could use someone elses' double-density disk, but it would not have a single-density sector at the beginning and so would not be bootable, though CP/M might be able to read the data and run files on the disk, it could not read the boot tracks at IPL.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

I wasn't asking if I could copy a system disk to an image. I was asking if [EDIT] an image of the newly created double-sided disk of files can be used along with CPMBOOT to make a new bootable disk.

 

There is no need to answer my earlier question. It worked!

 

-SteveS

Edited by a8isa1

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I am going to work on it a bit after work. I have a working tandon 100-1a. Going to try to use that since that is a single sided drive. Going to try to format a few others on the xf.

I have been using copymate to sector copy. It is one of the few that allows a source disk past drive two. ( the atr is usually in drive 3 since I have two physical drives connected) This sector copier allow you to not format the disk. Have tried it both ways.

I did get scopy to work on Sparta 3.2. That forces a format. Unfortunately, I don’t have a spd-x cart.

Since I am going to use the tandon I will only have 1 physical drive connected so I can try another sector copier. Any sure proof sector copier out there? ( I know you answered this Jeff but thought I would throw it out to the rest of the community. )

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14 hours ago, a8isa1 said:

 

 

It *did* require formatting both sides of a *flippy*  (I have some disks with 2 notches and 2 index holes which work on the ATR).

 

 

 

Ha!  I only recently made my first flippies.  The Atari pretty much never needs them, but my Osborne 1 sure does.  I just kinda eyeballed where the index hole should be on the other side of the disk and punched holes in the top and bottom of the sleeve (not the disk of course) with a single-hole paper puncher.  It works fine.  However, the disks I was using have brittle jackets and the jackets will crack!  Other disks I've got don't do that.  Maybe aged plastic or just cheap plastic.  Still, you can make a flippy with a single-hole punch if you are careful when inserting the jaw under the disk jacket, avoid snagging on the felt inside and avoid sticking the jaws in so far they can scratch part of the media used by the drive for storing data.

 

best,

 

Jeff

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4 minutes ago, Jeffrey Worley said:

Ha!  I only recently made my first flippies.  The Atari pretty much never needs them, but my Osborne 1 sure does.  I just kinda eyeballed where the index hole should be on the other side of the disk and punched holes in the top and bottom of the sleeve (not the disk of course) with a single-hole paper puncher.  It works fine.  However, the disks I was using have brittle jackets and the jackets will crack!  Other disks I've got don't do that.  Maybe aged plastic or just cheap plastic.  Still, you can make a flippy with a single-hole punch if you are careful when inserting the jaw under the disk jacket, avoid snagging on the felt inside and avoid sticking the jaws in so far they can scratch part of the media used by the drive for storing data.

 

best,

 

Jeff

Necessity had me make a few back in the day.  

 

It was convienient to have ATRMON on one side of a disk and CP/M on the other side, because I could not seem to keep both disks together!

 

My problem is nearly all of my disks have been reused time and time again.  Had a box (of 5) new old stock manufactured *flippy disks* but the one I used Yesterday is the only one I could find.

 

-SteveS

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9 minutes ago, Jeffrey Worley said:

Ha!  I only recently made my first flippies.  The Atari pretty much never needs them, but my Osborne 1 sure does.  I just kinda eyeballed where the index hole should be on the other side of the disk and punched holes in the top and bottom of the sleeve (not the disk of course) with a single-hole paper puncher.  It works fine.  However, the disks I was using have brittle jackets and the jackets will crack!  Other disks I've got don't do that.  Maybe aged plastic or just cheap plastic.  Still, you can make a flippy with a single-hole punch if you are careful when inserting the jaw under the disk jacket, avoid snagging on the felt inside and avoid sticking the jaws in so far they can scratch part of the media used by the drive for storing data.

 

best,

 

Jeff

Yeah, that's how we did it on 8" floppies BitD.

On 8", the write-protect notch was a write-protect notch (the notch was covered to enable writing, exposed to protect from writing), not a write-enable notch like it is on the 5.25" disks, so we didn't have to punch that one.  But yeah, spread the jacket open and stick the hole punch in there to punch each side of the jacket for the index hole.

 

IIRC, there were two different types of 8" floppies, soft-sectored, where there was a single index hole in the media, and hard-sectored, where there were a whole bunch (hole bunch?) of index holes in the media.  The drive that I was using could only take the soft-sectored, single index hole style.  Well, there's a piece of trivia that I haven't thought about since the early 80s!

 

I wonder why the write-protect/write-enable notch polarity changed for the differing disk sizes?  Maybe to make it easier to identify which side of the disk is "up"?  Of course, the cynic in me says that it was to make it harder for people to use both sides, so that the manufacturers could sell more disks....

 

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Latest development.

Like a moron I suppose xf551 can’t do flippy disks.

Anyway, I hooked up one of my tandon drives. This one is a double sided one. But I unhooked the top head (doesn’t work anyway). I was able to format, write and everything. Now, running cpmboot in mydos it just gets stuck in a loop. Running it Spartados clearly does something. It returns to the D1: prompt after running. As when I brought up the ATRMON after trying the mydos disk it errored out. But with the spartados run cpmboot it gives me the “c” after I try to boot the cp/m disk.

Now, maybe my disk is ok but something is wrong with the atr. The z80 or the memory chips? Could this affect the booting of the cp/m disk?

I am going to take a break then I will go down and swap out some chips. See if it changes anything.

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8 hours ago, Jeffrey Worley said:

Moonlight_Mile has a slew of 1797 controller chips, three I think, new, so ask him for one.  That way you can get your ATR up and running the way it should be.  Also, some 1050's come with that controller the 97 chip, with a pin broken off.  You can replace the pin and have a chip for your ATR, and swap the 93 into the 1050, which won't know the difference.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

The 1050 uses a 2797 . Very different beast when compared to a 1797 hardware wise. Programming both however are almost the same.

James

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7 hours ago, a8isa1 said:

I wasn't asking if I could copy a system disk to an image. I was asking if [EDIT] an image of the newly created double-sided disk of files can be used along with CPMBOOT to make a new bootable disk.

 

There is no need to answer my earlier question. It worked!

 

-SteveS

Yes you can, but once you have the system booted and a data disk with all the files, it is much easier to use DDSYSGEN to create more 'system' disks. As usual like with most other disk boot type systems, format a data disk 1st then write system to it. There are utils to move the system down lower in memory. Don't know the reason for doing that yet.

 

One thing to do is a program on the atari side to write files to a cp/m data disk to easily transfer programs and data. Need remember block size etc.

 

Below is the readme file on the data disk. Apologizes if it already has been shown earlier.

 

James

 


What is on this disk
====================

from SWP:
---------
MAKESYS.DOC .... read this to learn how
                        to make a system disk.
NEWS.DOC ....... read about new ATR8000
                         CP/M system software.
MODEM.DOC ...... instructions for modem
                         program from CPMUG.

DDINIT.COM ..... diskette formatting
                          and verifying program.
DDSYSGEN.COM ... program to read/write
                           system area of disks.
CONFIG.COM ..... customized CP/M system
                         generation program.
SYSTEM.SWP ..... relocatable copy of
                          CP/M and SWP bios.
MODEM.COM ...... MODEM7 communications
                          program for ATR8000.
DISKDEF.COM .... program to set up ATR
                         to use disks made by
                         other computers.
DISKMON.COM .... utility program for
                           tinkering with disks at
                           the track/sector level.

 

from Digital Research:
----------------------
DDT.COM ........ 8080 machine language
                        debug utility.
ASM.COM ........ 8080 assembler.
LOAD.COM ....... loader for making .HEX
                          file into .COM file.
ED.COM ......... simple text editor.
MOVCPM.COM ..... CP/M relocator.
SUBMIT.COM ..... batch command file
                           processor.
XSUB.COM ....... more batch processor.
SYSGEN.COM ..... 8 inch single density
                           disk sysgen.
PIP.COM ........ file copying program.
STAT.COM ....... program to display and
                        change various system
                         parameters.

 

from the public domain:
-----------------------
D.COM .......... fancy file directory
                        listing program.
DISK76.COM ..... improved file copying
                        utility. replaces the
                        functions of PIP.

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My first attempt at making a bootable double sided disk went well.  I just sector copied my image to a formatted floppy, ran CPMBOOT.   Disk worked great.  All the files were acessible.  I didn't need to start with a bulk erased disk or a flippy disk.  The ATR8000 always wants to see a valid disk when first powered but other than that  no tricks or hoops to jump through.

 

The next attempts did not go well.

 

For the next two I get only as far as the "C" being echoed in Atrmon.

 

On the third attempt I got to the CP/M splash but then greeted with sector errors. I cannot proceed past that point.

 

I decided to redo CPMBOOT on the very same disk just above.  I got a different result.

 

At first It looked the same but this time after responding ENTER to the sector errors the directory listing appeared and the A> prompt came up.  Further, I could access every program on the disk.  Some worked without any problems.  Some worked but I would get 2 sector errors again before return to the A> prompt.  XSUB didn't work at all.  Sector errors and it kicked me to the A> prompt.

 

I should mention that all the above attempts were done after error free formatting and sector copying.  The difficulties occur only when I try to start CP/M.

 

Anyway,  I'll leave the ATR.   Perhaps someone else would like to try to generate a working double sided disk.

 

I'm also enclosing an image of what I saw in my last go.  (Sorry about the image quality.  LCD doesn't work well at all with my scan converter and I still haven't repaired/replaced my svideo cable.  Software 80 columns, 'nuff said).

 

a8isa1_CPMBOOT_result.thumb.jpg.a239a3dc8955ff1356a5e44b23d27471.jpg

 

-SteveS

a8isa1_cpm_files_raw.atr

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13 hours ago, Jeffrey Worley said:

All double-density Atari disks have three single-density sectors as the first on the disk, whatever the disk format is afterwards, single or double. 

Actually no. On almost all cases all the sectors on double density disks have a size of 256 bytes. The drive firmware does treat the three first sectors as single density for the purpose of transmitting the sector to or from the computer, but that is another matter.

 

The only exception that I know are disks formatted with the Duplicator that format those sectors at 128 bytes, and that make those disks incompatible with some other double density drives.

Edited by ijor

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My first attempt at making a bootable double sided disk went well.  I just sector copied my image to a formatted floppy, ran CPMBOOT.   Disk worked great.  All the files were acessible.  I didn't need to start with a bulk erased disk or a flippy disk.  The ATR8000 always wants to see a valid disk when first powered but other than that  no tricks or hoops to jump through.
 
The next attempts did not go well.
 
For the next two I get only as far as the "C" being echoed in Atrmon.
 

 
imageproxy.php?img=&key=f4dcc336a70d5c685467eced1e0f32e3c60f39f52e101fedd67f1346bd15c63ea8isa1_CPMBOOT_result.thumb.jpg.a239a3dc8955ff1356a5e44b23d27471.jpg
 
-SteveS
a8isa1_cpm_files_raw.atr



Glad I’m not the only one stuck with just a “c”. I didn’t even think of trying a ds/dd disk.

When your cpmboot runs does it sound like it is writing to the disk or erroring when trying to write? I have just about tried everything I could think of. I’m gonna try a ds/dd disk tomorrow and try your atr. See what happens. What dos and sector copy are you using?

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1 minute ago, moonlight_mile said:

 

 


Glad I’m not the only one stuck with just a “c”. I didn’t even think of trying a ds/dd disk.

When your cpmboot runs does it sound like it is writing to the disk or erroring when trying to write? I have just about tried everything I could think of. I’m gonna try a ds/dd disk tomorrow and try your atr. See what happens. What dos and sector copy are you using?

You hear the drive home and then advance one track.  Drive select light won't go out.

 

-SteveS

 

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9 hours ago, moonlight_mile said:

 

 


Glad I’m not the only one stuck with just a “c”. I didn’t even think of trying a ds/dd disk.

When your cpmboot runs does it sound like it is writing to the disk or erroring when trying to write? I have just about tried everything I could think of. I’m gonna try a ds/dd disk tomorrow and try your atr. See what happens. What dos and sector copy are you using?

 

 

The whole CPMBOOT drill is just to get a system for the ATR8000 to boot from when you have nothing else.  Once you have this, you have no need for the CPMBOOT utility, the ATR8000 can format and systemise it's own disks now.  So, boot your ATR8000 from the disk you made.  Run the CONFIG utility and answer the questions it asks about the disk drives you have connected to your ATR8000.  Then allow the utility to write the system tracks to your disk.  Reboot the ATR8000.  It is now configured with your particular disk drive setup.  Proceed to run DDINIT and format some double-sided disks.  Then run DDSYSGEN and copy the tracks from your boot disk into memory and then write those tracks to your newly formatted double-sided disks.  This is just normal cp/m stuff.

 

best,

 

Jeff

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21 hours ago, sup8pdct said:

The 1050 uses a 2797 . Very different beast when compared to a 1797 hardware wise. Programming both however are almost the same.

James

Oops.  Going off of memory apparently got me there.  TY.

 

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Ok, I am waving the white flag.

I have copied the cpmfiles oh around 30 times and I can get it to work correctly. I have followed the directions I just can’t seem to figure it out.

I thought about getting a Kryoflux or a greaseweazle to image the atr to floppy but I hate to spend the money for 1 disk.

Can any kind user out there send me a few premade cp/m disks? I’ll pay for them and/send you some blanks if you like.

Any help appreciated!
Craig

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8 minutes ago, moonlight_mile said:

Ok, I am waving the white flag.

I have copied the cpmfiles oh around 30 times and I can get it to work correctly. I have followed the directions I just can’t seem to figure it out.

I thought about getting a Kryoflux or a greaseweazle to image the atr to floppy but I hate to spend the money for 1 disk.

Can any kind user out there send me a few premade cp/m disks? I’ll pay for them and/send you some blanks if you like.

Any help appreciated!
Craig

You are in the US?  Let's talk this evening.  I will help you get going, even send you a boot disk in the mail if we can't fix you by phone.

 

best,

 

jeff

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Well,

   After getting known good bootable copies of ATR CP/M disks from Jeffery, I still get the Dreaded "C".

 

I have tried the disks on a few different drives, swapped out all the socketed chips for other ones I have to no avail.  Obviously, something is incorrect with my ATR.  The only thing that hasn't been touched is the Rs232 dip switch block.  I don't know if this would actually affect the CP/M but if you think that might cause an issue I can look into it to verify the switch settings.  All the Jumpers are set correctly per the manual, and I have tried both my original rom and the one I burned.

 

Anyone have any clue as to what the issue on this ATR-8000 is?

 

Thanks!

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See this discussion. I have booting CP/M images (HFE) working on my ATR8000!
 
 
 

I am not exactly sure the issue is with the floppy and controller. I have two good 1797 chips, same result.

I did hook up my hxc2000 sd card reader from my st and the atr did access it but I don’t think either item knows what to do with it as I think the autoboot on the sd card is for the st (or maybe the unit itself).

Would the gotek be necessary in your setup?

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gotek necessary? Maybe, can your device run "FlashFloppy" ? If so, maybe gotek isn't necessary.

 

I hooked up a second gotek (+FF) this weekend, and my ATR is running CP/M with two FF-drives.

I need three.. working on that one.

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gotek necessary? Maybe, can your device run "FlashFloppy" ? If so, maybe gotek isn't necessary.
 
I hooked up a second gotek (+FF) this weekend, and my ATR is running CP/M with two FF-drives.
I need three.. working on that one.

I don’t think I can flash it with anything but hxc software. But not sure. However, I went over to the hxc forums and there were a few entries regarding Atari 8 bit. So i downloaded some of those configs and your hfe file so I will give it a shot.

Will let you know how it turns out.

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20 hours ago, moonlight_mile said:

Well,

   After getting known good bootable copies of ATR CP/M disks from Jeffery, I still get the Dreaded "C".

 

I have tried the disks on a few different drives, swapped out all the socketed chips for other ones I have to no avail.  Obviously, something is incorrect with my ATR.  The only thing that hasn't been touched is the Rs232 dip switch block.  I don't know if this would actually affect the CP/M but if you think that might cause an issue I can look into it to verify the switch settings.  All the Jumpers are set correctly per the manual, and I have tried both my original rom and the one I burned.

 

Anyone have any clue as to what the issue on this ATR-8000 is?

 

Thanks!

Of course I'd verify that the serial jumpers

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