DaytonaUSA Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) http://www.gaikokugamers.com/2014/01/what-will-happen-to-last-gens-games.html We're starting to see it with games like Deadpool and Spiderman. Games that the developer no longer have licenses for, and thus can't be on Xbox Live's store, nor PSN's store. And while this might be acceptable if it only meant the closure of future sales, it also means that users that paid for the game will never be able to re-download the title in the future as the files have been completely deleted off Sony and Microsoft's servers. So if you ever got a new 360, or upgraded a hard drive, and you didn't backup your data.. the game is gone forever. Despite the fact you bought rights to play that digital copy that should be able to be re-downloaded as many times as you wish. It's something we saw with the original Xbox's Live store, and I personally lost a couple game's DLC that I'll never see again, because the games were taken down from that whole era once the 360 started hitting it's stride. But this last generation's DLC and online title libraries were FAR bigger and more instrumental to the success of consoles than it was with the original Xbox and PS2. One day the sad reality is, those servers for the PS3 and Xbox 360 will be taken down, and all those games and their supplemental DLC data will be lost. Of course we have programs like PlayStation Now, which will allow you to play a certain selection of PS3 titles, but what about the copies you already own? The problem is that these games and the plethora of DLC out there isn't disc based. If I want to play Fighter's Megamix, I simply find my disc and put it in my Sega Saturn... and play. In 10 years, when you have no online access to these game files any longer, and your Xbox 360 or PS3's hard drive randomly fails on you... you just lost your collection. Forever. If you're digital only, you're even more screwed. So other than programs like PlayStation Now, how do you think companies will handle the transition? And what do you think gamer's reactions will be when Sony and Microsoft both inevitably delete all of last generation's content off their stores? And more importantly, how will you protect your digital gaming investments? Edited January 10, 2014 by DaytonaUSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Who knows. In the case of the XBOX 360, it doesn't seem like it was as easy to crack as, say, the original XBOX, so it's tough to say where the old digital downloads will go down the line. Has the hacker 'n cracker community already snagged them somehow and backed them up? Either way, the consoles being easily hackable is going to play a large part in this for those that want to go that route. I believe earlier editions of the PS3 were easy to hack, so there shouldn't be much of a problem there. As for people that don't want to go that route, well, I think much like with the original XBOX, after a period of time they will be S.O.L. What that time is, no one knows (yet). it also means that users that paid for the game will never be able to re-download the title in the future as the files have been completely deleted off Sony and Microsoft's servers. Where did you get this from? With the XBOX 360, even if a game has been delisted, it still indeed sits on Microsoft's servers for re-download, strictly for those who purchased it in the past. When a XBOX user goes to their download history, the game in question will be there in the list for re-download. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necron99 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Where did you get this from? With the XBOX 360, even if a game has been delisted, it still indeed sits on Microsoft's servers for re-download, strictly for those who purchased it in the past. When a XBOX user goes to their download history, the game in question will be there in the list for re-download. until they remove the service. which will likely happen within 5 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaUSA Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Who knows. In the case of the XBOX 360, it doesn't seem like it was as easy to crack as, say, the original XBOX, so it's tough to say where the old digital downloads will go down the line. Has the hacker 'n cracker community already snagged them somehow and backed them up? Either way, the consoles being easily hackable is going to play a large part in this for those that want to go that route. I believe earlier editions of the PS3 were easy to hack, so there shouldn't be much of a problem there. As for people that don't want to go that route, well, I think much like with the original XBOX, after a period of time they will be S.O.L. What that time is, no one knows (yet). Where did you get this from? With the XBOX 360, even if a game has been delisted, it still indeed sits on Microsoft's servers for re-download, strictly for those who purchased it in the past. When a XBOX user goes to their download history, the game in question will be there in the list for re-download. My co-host on my podcast told me that Deadpool and Spiderman were taken down, even for those who already purchased it. When the license was lost, the game and it's backup were taken down for good. And honestly, even if that isn't true, when the games are eventually taken down off the servers, that will ring true. Look at my DLC for SW Battlefront II on the original Xbox. They didn't carry that over, it's gone forever. Edited January 10, 2014 by DaytonaUSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 My co-host on my podcast told me that Deadpool and Spiderman were taken down, even for those who already purchased it. When the license was lost, the game and it's backup were taken down for good. He told you? But where did he get the information? At least in terms of the 360 (I'm not sure how PSN works in that regard), having the content removed entirely, even for users that already paid for it, would be inconsistent with what has happened in the same situations in the past (like Double Dragon, OutRun, and plenty others). Look at my DLC for SW Battlefront II on the original Xbox. They didn't carry that over, it's gone forever. Except there are good chances you can probably find it if you have a modded XBOX. I wouldn't be surprised if it's floating around somewhere on the web. until they remove the service. which will likely happen within 5 years. This is a given in this day and age. Anyone that complains about it now has clearly been living under a rock for the last 5 years. People that have hefty digital libraries better hope their systems are crackable, otherwise they will be in a world of hurt if their systems die after the plug is finally pulled down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Random Terrain Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The future of gaming is finally here. Enjoy your disposable games before they expire. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojay1997 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 My co-host on my podcast told me that Deadpool and Spiderman were taken down, even for those who already purchased it. When the license was lost, the game and it's backup were taken down for good. And honestly, even if that isn't true, when the games are eventually taken down off the servers, that will ring true. Look at my DLC for SW Battlefront II on the original Xbox. They didn't carry that over, it's gone forever. Your co-host is wrong. If you purchased the games before delisting, you still have them on your hard drive and can re-download them if your hardware fails. Also, both games were released on disc and are dirt common. Nothing to worry about, at least with these two particular titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atariboy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) The files are still there and can be redownloaded for the life of the online service via your download history. They just delete the marketplace page for the game and disable the purchase ability. Except there are good chances you can probably find it if you have a modded XBOX. I wouldn't be surprised if it's floating around somewhere on the web. I suppose there might be something minor that isn't yet known about, but at least 99% of all Xbox DLC is archived and easily available. I'm quite sure that Battlefront II's DLC, be it a patch or free or paid expansion content, is easily sourced online for installation on a modded Xbox. Sadly, I think it's going to be much more difficult for future systems to ever be cracked open to such a degree as the original Xbox has been. Edited January 10, 2014 by Atariboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Sadly, I think it's going to be much more difficult for future systems to ever be cracked open to such a degree as the original Xbox has been. Yeah, that's my biggest worry when it comes to digital downloads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaUSA Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thing is you shouldn't have to mod a system to access what you paid for. And no, I doubt the ps3, ps4, Xbox 360, and Xbox one will be as easy to mod as an original xbox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thing is you shouldn't have to mod a system to access what you paid for. Yep, I am pretty sure most of us here feel the same way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think they will fade for many years until nostalgia hits and then playstationage , xboxage, and Wiiage will all have huge forums with massive cult followings. Although I can't see them being as retro or classic as the 70s and 80s consoles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Thing is you shouldn't have to mod a system to access what you paid for. And no, I doubt the ps3, ps4, Xbox 360, and Xbox one will be as easy to mod as an original xbox. If I have to mod my system to access what I paid for, I'll feel no qualms about pirating the hell out of tons of things I DIDN'T pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaUSA Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Haha totally. I don't typically pirate software or anything, but I'll hack the living daylights out of my ps3 and 360 if they do that. And I won't feel a bit bad for doing it either lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godslabrat Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Haha totally. I don't typically pirate software or anything, but I'll hack the living daylights out of my ps3 and 360 if they do that. And I won't feel a bit bad for doing it either lol. Exactly. I've tried for years to be totally legit when it comes to copyrights. Software, games, movies, music... if I didn't pay for it, I don't have it (some minor exceptions exist for a few historical rarities unattainable by any other means). I'm the poster child for "Piracy is bad, mmmkay?" But if I wake up one day and find out that I have to hack my 360 to get the stuff I legit paid for... the gloves will be off. I tried to play by the rules, and you boned me, MS. I will fill that 360 with anything I can get my hands on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I know the physical copies will skyrocket in price after a decade, as it has for all the previous systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Except there are good chances you can probably find it if you have a modded XBOX. I wouldn't be surprised if it's floating around somewhere on the web. Keep in mind that anyone that worries about this stuff to begin with are probably trying to stay legal with respect to copyright law. Telling those people to break the law is not a valid counter argument imo, but it does show how badly copyright law needs REAL reform rather than continuing to be the perpetual joke that it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Not sure if I'd agree with statements that system A, B, or C is going to be "difficult" to hack. Whether via soft or hard mods, pretty much every system invented has been cracked through last gen. The Wii is super easy. Xbox, Gamecube, PS2 were as well, all through soft mod at the least. There are tons of highly intelligent, clever, motivated individuals out there, and the loss of DLC/DRM types of games will only motivate them further. For collectors/retro gamers, this will be required on these newer systems, and I have confidence it will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGameCollector Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Where are you guys getting this worry about modding Xbox 360 and PS3? It has already been done for years. Don't J-Tagged 360's run unsigned code? That's where you get these people playing burned games before release and digital games that aren't available anymore. With PS3 they have firmware downgrades and mods for those older firmware which also run unsigned code. The backup is already happening. A huge torrent of digital Wii stuff was also already distributed in 2012. I'm sure all of these will eventually be updated and missing nothing by the time these systems all die in retail settings. While I'm not saying law abiding citizens should have to break laws to get stuff they paid for, I agree that people need to fight to change ridiculous copyright laws. If enough people sue the content providers over their paid for but now unobtainable content, it will at least cause those content providers to pay legal fees every single time they are brought to court and tried for the same thing over and over and over again. Sure the people suing will have to pay court fees too if the lawsuit is a draw, but like I said if enough people do it then it will eat away at the companies' funds enough to leave an impression and force them to change their ways. Sure, they have clauses for people when they get their system or game and have to agree to the terms of service saying the company is not liable, but not if the person bringing it to court is suing them on behalf of the person who was screwed because they are not the one who digitally signed the agreement. For example your wife or your dad gives you $20 to spend on digital games. You buy the games. The games are taken away from you digitally and you want them back. Your dad/mom/wife/husband is angry that they spent money on your present and the present was taken away. Your mom/dad/wife/husband could then sue the company on your behalf, because they are not the one who digitally signed away rights to the purchase like you did, but they are still the ones who paid for the game by giving you the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaUSA Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Where are you guys getting this worry about modding Xbox 360 and PS3? It has already been done for years. Don't J-Tagged 360's run unsigned code? That's where you get these people playing burned games before release and digital games that aren't available anymore. With PS3 they have firmware downgrades and mods for those older firmware which also run unsigned code. The backup is already happening. A huge torrent of digital Wii stuff was also already distributed in 2012. I'm sure all of these will eventually be updated and missing nothing by the time these systems all die in retail settings. While I'm not saying law abiding citizens should have to break laws to get stuff they paid for, I agree that people need to fight to change ridiculous copyright laws. If enough people sue the content providers over their paid for but now unobtainable content, it will at least cause those content providers to pay legal fees every single time they are brought to court and tried for the same thing over and over and over again. Sure the people suing will have to pay court fees too if the lawsuit is a draw, but like I said if enough people do it then it will eat away at the companies' funds enough to leave an impression and force them to change their ways. Sure, they have clauses for people when they get their system or game and have to agree to the terms of service saying the company is not liable, but not if the person bringing it to court is suing them on behalf of the person who was screwed because they are not the one who digitally signed the agreement. For example your wife or your dad gives you $20 to spend on digital games. You buy the games. The games are taken away from you digitally and you want them back. Your dad/mom/wife/husband is angry that they spent money on your present and the present was taken away. Your mom/dad/wife/husband could then sue the company on your behalf, because they are not the one who digitally signed away rights to the purchase like you did, but they are still the ones who paid for the game by giving you the money. There's a problem with your theory on 360s. Jtagged systems have to be old. Like... really old. And they have to have not been online and received an update for a LONG time. There's very few of these systems out there that fit that requirement to jtag. And you make sueing sound like it's really easy. Like you just waltz down to Lawyerland and pick a guy out and go to court the next day and get cash the day after that. Normal people don't have the means to sue a company as big as Microsoft over $20 worth of DLC. Just saying. I agree that I'd condone piracy if they took it away, like they did with the original Xbox. And I agree it would be nice if someone sued them if they did it again. But the real reality of the situation is that we don't have the raw files for DLC to store for the future, we don't have all Xboxes able to be Jtagged, and most middle class citizens don't have the means to sue a juggernaut like Microsoft, and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonaUSA Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Not sure if I'd agree with statements that system A, B, or C is going to be "difficult" to hack. Whether via soft or hard mods, pretty much every system invented has been cracked through last gen. The Wii is super easy. Xbox, Gamecube, PS2 were as well, all through soft mod at the least. There are tons of highly intelligent, clever, motivated individuals out there, and the loss of DLC/DRM types of games will only motivate them further. For collectors/retro gamers, this will be required on these newer systems, and I have confidence it will happen. Hacking them is one issue, sure. And it could be overcome in time, sure. But think of all the DLC content that's out there. All the dload only titles out there, unlike the original Xbox days. Do we really have all those raw files to store and distribute online for the masses who purchased them legitimately? It's an honest question, not trying to sound mean or anything. IS there a way to get these raw files, and has anyone started to collect them? Running burned game discs is one thing, and that should be easy. But acquiring all the DLC and dloaded titles is another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGameCollector Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I think I saw raw 360 DLC files on fluxgamer. They definitely had the PSN ones up. Edited January 11, 2014 by TheGameCollector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yes I've seen sites with tons of XBLA defunct game files. Gamers are often by nature hoarders, and digital hoarding is no different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 There's a problem with your theory on 360s. Jtagged systems have to be old. Like... really old. And they have to have not been online and received an update for a LONG time. There's very few of these systems out there that fit that requirement to jtag. That's the issue with the 360. I know the PS3 was blown wide open early on, but Jtagging a 360 was about as far as it got, and it's used for mostly copying DVD images, not much more. I wasn't aware of being able to run XBLA titles as well, but again, it's pretty much relegated to earlier systems so it doesn't do many a whole lot of good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGameCollector Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) I just found this on ebay: "R-JTAG is a new modification brought to us by Team Xecuter that allow newer xboxes to now receive the JTAG mod. R-JTAG is far superior to RGH and RGH2, in most cases producing better/faster boot times..." Oh and apparently you can RGH an Xbox 360 slim instead of J-Tagging or R-Jtagging it. R-Jtag is supposed to allow newer phat Xboxes to be J-Tagged regardless of dashboard type. RGH does a similar thing of allowing the running of unsigned code. Edited January 11, 2014 by TheGameCollector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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