Do you prefer the NES or the Atari 7800? Experiement

[gamecat80]

While not having a Super Mario or Zelda games, there were unique titles in the 7800's late lifecycle like Ninja Golf. The graphics were descent even they they are chunkier than otjher systems but what killed it hardwise was the TIA sound chip which was good enough for sound effects but not for music which was the norm for the competition.

 

 

The TIA sound is the weakest part of the 7800. And the controllers come in a close second, imo. But there are some games like Galaga, Food Fight, and Ms. PacMan that have decent TIA sound, so some of it is programming talent. But POKEY games definitely sound better. Graphics are good and don't flicker like the NES & SMS. And the 7800 was able to do high-resolution graphics too -- I already posted about that.

 

I agree that single screen games that don't have lots of background grpahics are best suited on the 7800, but not the Nintendo licensed games like Donkey Kong which were bad rip offs of the NES versions. I would have like to have a 7800 back in the day along with more XEGS games, but I lived in a town that only sold NES stuff and the nearest KayBee Toys was an hour's drive away...so guess what was my main game system was.

 

The 7800 could do single-screen games very well, as well as many other games. Look at Commando & Ballblazer. I think there could have been many games that utilize smooth-moving graphics/sprites like Ballblazer (racing games!) done well on the 7800. THAT is what the 7800 could really excel at! Sadly, this was not widely taken advantage of, and I don't even see the homebrewers doing this.

 

I disagree about Donkey Kong or the other Nintendo games on the 7800. Except for the crude TIA sound, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong Jr. and Mario Bros. look and play great on the 7800.

 

I liked how it was possible for two players to cooperate on the 7800 instead of always fighting against each other (depending on the game), but Atari needed a ton of fresh games beyond the stale arcade games that they seemed to drag out for every console. And yes, I was happy to see improved graphics and games like Food Fight, but the NES kicked Atari's ass when it came to variety.

 

 

Really, each system's success come down to the games library it has. For instance, the Astrocade is a far superior console in every way to the Atari VCS, but the VCS was much more successful because of it's huge library of games.

Except for sound (even though carts could use POKEY), the Atari 7800 is technically superior to the NES & SMS. But Sega and especially Nintendo fully supported their consoles, getting tons of 3rd party games support, and pushing their consoles capabilities to their max! Nintendo had to put extra hardware inside carts for more advanced games. The Atari 7800, on the other hand, had very few games or 3rd party support, had plans for it stripped, and Atari (Jack Tramiel) put most of his attention and funding in computers. It's almost like the 7800 was pushed out on the street and orphaned Kinda pisses me off a little because the 7800 had SO much potential to be a really great system.

 

But as they were released, yeah, I overall prefer the NES. But if the 7800 had been given it's deserved treatment and realized it's full potential, I would prefer it over the NES easily.

[gorfcadet]

I conned my brother into asking for a 7800 the year I got a NES for Christmas. We played both for a while, once Zelda and Contra hit, it was all over. I still love my 7800 (I still have my brothers 7800 lol) but for me its best value is as a homebrew console thanks to the awesome guys around here. I have over 500 NES games compared to like 30 7800 games.

Do not see this as I hate my 7800 or something crazy, but lets be real...

Is anyone going to take Pole Position over Rad Racer?

Midnight Mutants over Zelda?

Scrapyard Dog over Mario 1, 2, or 3?

I love the old arcade ports, but NES even had Gyruss, Contra, Gradius, Castlevania, Elevator Action, Burger Time, etc.

Nintendo had more AAA titles than the 7800 had titles. Do I wish it had been different? Of course, I love Atari products. I check AtariAge everyday, but history was pretty clear who came out on top in the 8-bit era.

 

Now I'll take a Lynx over a green screen gameboy or game gear all day long.

[108 Stars]

I said this in that post. Also I was fairly certain back in the 80's for a part that Australia was still considered part of europe.

Hey, I'm just trying to help here. I only read that you were not sure if all the previous Ataris had been released in Australia and NZ, nothing about Europe. If you had mentioned that somewhere, sorry.

 

About Australia... it was never part of Europe. Be careful, Australians might take offense. Australia is farther away from Europe than North America, there is countries like Iran and India between us and Australia. It's like suggesting China is in North America.

 

I think you are mixing up "Europe" with PAL territories. But PAL is purely a technical standard, and it is used in Africa and South America as well. PAL territories meaning Europe for many people is probably mostly because commercially Europe is the biggest PAL-market. African and South American countries usually do not have the same wealth.

[godslabrat]

I prefer the NES, because Nintendo saved gaming.

[John Mayor]

 

Hey, I'm just trying to help here. I only read that you were not sure if all the previous Ataris had been released in Australia and NZ, nothing about Europe. If you had mentioned that somewhere, sorry.

 

About Australia... it was never part of Europe. Be careful, Australians might take offense. Australia is farther away from Europe than North America, there is countries like Iran and India between us and Australia. It's like suggesting China is in North America.

 

I think you are mixing up "Europe" with PAL territories. But PAL is purely a technical standard, and it is used in Africa and South America as well. PAL territories meaning Europe for many people is probably mostly because commercially Europe is the biggest PAL-market. African and South American countries usually do not have the same wealth.

You actually nailed this a bit to well because I was about to edit in the word PAL in a previous post. Most of the media over the years always referred to PAL as Europe so i just assumed that it was a thing not worth exploring in more detail. Irony.

[John Mayor]

 

I conned my brother into asking for a 7800 the year I got a NES for Christmas. We played both for a while, once Zelda and Contra hit, it was all over. I still love my 7800 (I still have my brothers 7800 lol) but for me its best value is as a homebrew console thanks to the awesome guys around here. I have over 500 NES games compared to like 30 7800 games.

Do not see this as I hate my 7800 or something crazy, but lets be real...

Is anyone going to take Pole Position over Rad Racer?

Midnight Mutants over Zelda?

Scrapyard Dog over Mario 1, 2, or 3?

I love the old arcade ports, but NES even had Gyruss, Contra, Gradius, Castlevania, Elevator Action, Burger Time, etc.

Nintendo had more AAA titles than the 7800 had titles. Do I wish it had been different? Of course, I love Atari products. I check AtariAge everyday, but history was pretty clear who came out on top in the 8-bit era.

 

Now I'll take a Lynx over a green screen gameboy or game gear all day long.

I think Midnight Mutants would be better compared to a less stripped down PC adventure games, as that's what it seemed like to me. But yeah you make fair points. It seems like opinions differ by where some people live. In the USAs case anyway.

 

The Only thing I don't get with the NES is the homebrew scene. There are even dedicated fans for it here, yet for some reason the 7800 seems to have a more active homebrew scene. Something that actually seems to happen Maybe with ever Atari consoles. Maybe because most people who grew up with the 2600 are older and are probably more into programming or something.

[mbd30]

The 7800 has a more active homebrew scene because there weren't many great releases for it. Homebrewers are seeing what they can do with the console.

 

The NES was already pushed to its limits.

[John Mayor]

 

The 7800 has a more active homebrew scene because there weren't many great releases for it. Homebrewers are seeing what they can do with the console.

 

The NES was already pushed to its limits.

That is the same conclusion I had but then i realized the 2600,Jaguar,Lynx have high home brews. With the 2600 being very popular and being pushed by companies such as Epyx, and the other two which have more games than the TG16 yet the PC engine has next to no homebrew with it;s 40 American releases.

 

It's a question we may never have an answer to. Like how many licks does it take to get to the gum in a blow pop.

[gorfcadet]

I was thinking the same thing about homebrew. Is the NES just that hard to program? Is dealing with different mappers like a complete rule change maybe? Atari being stateside and the programming tools in English probably has something to do with it as well.

Considering the Intellivision and Colecovision scenes, I suspect having developer kits and notes in English probably moves the scene along faster for those systems.

Now what kind of homebrewer bad @$$ would it take to get the 32X CD to purr like a kitten?

 

I do think the 7800's best years are ahead of it and that is why I'm glad I own two!

[TheGameCollector]

Now what kind of homebrewer bad @$$ would it take to get the 32X CD to purr like a kitten?

 

 

 

Hmm, makes me wonder if someone could successfully port the PC version of Sonic 3D Blast to it (I imagine the extra effects and Special Stages of Saturn version would be too much for it to handle, but the PC Special Stage I could see as doable), or maybe even Gex.

[gamecat80]

It seems like opinions differ by where some people live. In the USAs case anyway.

 

 

You are reading too much into that. Opinions differ because of personal experience and personal preference. And maybe a little bare minimum knowledge of console hardware and if it was used to it's full potential or not...

It's not a regional "thing".

[Seob]

Maybe the nes homebrews have problems with the lockout chip. I think you cannot copy the chip because it's still proparty of Nintendo, and seeing Nintendo going after youtubers for using there assets, i think they will also hitnhomebrewers who clone the lockout chip. Sure you can bypass the lockoutchip on the console, but that's a very inpractical way if you want to distribute games for the Nes.

[Cynicaster]

I love the old arcade ports, but NES even had Gyruss, Contra, Gradius, Castlevania, Elevator Action, Burger Time, etc.

Nintendo had more AAA titles than the 7800 had titles. Do I wish it had been different? Of course, I love Atari products.

 

It seems Atari-branded products tend to get a retroactive “pass” on their glaring shortcomings, more so than products from other companies do. I’ve always assumed this stems from the bedrock of nostalgia provided by the brand’s association with the Atari 2600.

 

I fully realize discussions like these are largely a “matter of opinion” and that there is no accounting for taste, but I really struggle to believe that anybody saying they prefer the 7800 over the NES is being remotely objective. The technical specs of the two consoles are moot. BetaMax provided better video quality than VHS, but only a small handful of my favorite movies were ever released on BetaMax, so who cares? I’ll take VHS, thanks.

 

On a side note, I never saw the backwards compatibility of the 7800 as much of a selling point. It was probably appreciated by parents who didn’t want to see their accumulated Atari 2600 game libraries go to waste, but as the end user of the product I couldn’t have cared less. Sure, it’s great nowadays to have a retro console that can play the libraries of two consoles, but I’m pretty sure I never once put a single 2600 game into that console for the 1.5 years I had it before trading it up for the NES. By that time, I’d been playing 2600 games for 6 years and was thoroughly burned out on them. It didn’t help that by that time the Atari 2600 had become a bit of a joke on the schoolyard playground. Seems stupid to care about stuff like that as an adult, but as a kid, the importance of the “cool factor” cannot be overstated.

[desiv]

It seems Atari-branded products tend to get a retroactive “pass” on their glaring shortcomings, more so than products from other companies do. I’ve always assumed this stems from the bedrock of nostalgia provided by the brand’s association with the Atari 2600.

You shouldn't assume..

 

Actually, considering the number of threads about hideous joysticks, power connections, RF only, no pokey, etc etc etc just on this forum, I'm not sure where this "pass" actually is..

 

Lots of people, many of them fans of the systems, are very vocal about their shortcomings... VERY VOCAL..

 

One of the things that I think attracts some of the homebrewers are the shortcomings.. It's the thought of getting "it" to work in spite of the shortcomings that creates the challenge...

 

As for this thread, I prefer the 7800, but honestly admit that probably because it's the system I got. I was into neither BITD. I went from Odyssey 2 to computers. Never really played console games from that point on, until 10 years ago or so, when I started to get back into it.

My first (and only) Atari console was the 7800, and I liked that system. I was there at the right time and got a CC2 and haven't looked back since..

Nothing against the NES. Had I chosen an NES and a multicart for that at the time, I'm sure I'd be here extolling the virtues of the NES over the 7800. And to be honest, looking at the catalog of games, I'd say the average person in a fair comparison would more often choose the NES... It has lots of great games.. Personally, I ignore the number of bad games or the bad-to-good game ratio thinking. If a system has mostly bad games, but the good games it has are awesome to you, then it's an awesome system to you. You don't have to play the bad games.

 

So, for me, 7800, but for no reason other than it's the one I got first.

(I was eventually given an NES, but only have a few games for it (3 I think?). It's fun, but I was deep into the 7800 by then..)

 

desiv

Edited January 27, 2014 by desiv

[Cynicaster]

You shouldn't assume..

 

Actually, considering the number of threads about hideous joysticks, power connections, RF only, no pokey, etc etc etc just on this forum, I'm not sure where this "pass" actually is..

 

Lots of people, many of them fans of the systems, are very vocal about their shortcomings... VERY VOCAL..

Even if a shortcoming is acknowledged, as far as I’m concerned, you’re still giving a “pass” if you’re willing to look past that shortcoming and advocate the platform. That’s fine—-people don’t need to justify what they like and what they collect—-but for me, if a system has crappy sound, borderline unusable controllers, flaky connections, and a slim-to-nonexistent library of good exclusive games then I’m inclined to just write that system off as “no good” and spend my time (and money) elsewhere.

 

Again, I was just making the point that Atari dud platforms seem to get a lot more love than Brand X dud platforms, and it’s hard to understand why, until you consider the nostalgic ties that so many retro gamers have to the brand name.

[BydoEmpire]

Even if a shortcoming is acknowledged, as far as I’m concerned, you’re still giving a “pass” if you’re willing to look past that shortcoming and advocate the platform. That’s fine—-people don’t need to justify what they like and what they collect—-but for me, if a system has crappy sound, borderline unusable controllers, flaky connections, and a slim-to-nonexistent library of good exclusive games then I’m inclined to just write that system off as “no good” and spend my time (and money) elsewhere.

IMHO it's because there are great games for the 7800, and all it takes is one for the console to be magic. Slim-to-nonexistant? That's a personal thing, of course, but I certainly wouldn't agree. Food Fight alone makes the 7800 worth owning, but there are other good games. Again, I wouldn't choose it over the NES - it's not even in my top 3 favorite Atari consoles (2600, 5200, XEGS by the way) - but that doesn't make it bad. It has pros and cons like every system. I advocate for the 7800 to the small extent I do because I've really enjoyed it and still play it. It's as simple as that. I honestly don't think it has a lot to do with brand name since I (and I would guess 99% of the AA forumites) have consoles from pretty much every maker.

[Cynicaster]

IMHO it's because there are great games for the 7800, and all it takes is one for the console to be magic. Slim-to-nonexistant? That's a personal thing, of course, but I certainly wouldn't agree. Food Fight alone makes the 7800 worth owning, but there are other good games. Again, I wouldn't choose it over the NES - it's not even in my top 3 favorite Atari consoles (2600, 5200, XEGS by the way) - but that doesn't make it bad. It has pros and cons like every system. I advocate for the 7800 to the small extent I do because I've really enjoyed it and still play it. It's as simple as that. I honestly don't think it has a lot to do with brand name since I (and I would guess 99% of the AA forumites) have consoles from pretty much every maker.

 

The reason why I probably sound like a “7800 hater” is that owning the system in the late 80’s turned me into one. I think there is still a bad taste in my mouth all these years later after having the console when it was current and being so let down by the experience.

 

Let the record show that I agree 7800 Food Fight is fantastic—in fact, it’s one of maybe 5 ports on any console that I actually like better than the arcade original. There are other good games for the system, sure, but I can’t think of any that are either exclusive to the 7800 or not done just as well or better elsewhere.

 

When I look at just the set of Activision titles on the Atari 2600, in my opinion, I see more “value” and enduring appeal than the entire 7800 catalog—which is just as telling as it is crazy, considering the 7800 is not one, but two consoles later for Atari. The reason is that those games are fantastic specimens of classic video games and you actually need an Atari 2600 if you want to play them at their best (sorry Atari 5200 Kaboom, but I’m going to need the original in this instance).

[xDragonWarrior]

I fully realize discussions like these are largely a “matter of opinion” and that there is no accounting for taste, but I really struggle to believe that anybody saying they prefer the 7800 over the NES is being remotely objective. The technical specs of the two consoles are moot. BetaMax provided better video quality than VHS, but only a small handful of my favorite movies were ever released on BetaMax, so who cares? I’ll take VHS, thanks.

 

I agree, we should prefer the modern consoles over the retro consoles but we don't. Not only are the games MUCH better graphically and sound wise,they are also Much longer.I think it's more of a Nostalgia thing.We grew up with a console so even those there are much better consoles out we prefer the nostalgic consoles.For instance, I prefer a Gamegear and Gameboy over a PSP and a PS1/PS2 over a PS3.I mean why would anybody prefer a 2600 over a PS4 or X1,there better in EVERY way.so Nostalgia has alot to do with it most of the time.

 

 

And yes I prefer the 2600 over the Intellivision.

Edited January 28, 2014 by xDragonWarrior

[gamecat80]

Nostalgia is only part of it. Personal preference is a bigger, more important "thing". The modern consoles with their extremely powerful hardware, extremely hi-res, realistic, "movie-like" graphics with ugly brown/grey color palettes and an over-abundance of first-person shooter games does NOTHING for me. Gimme decades-old classic, FUN, arcade/action/platform games and consoles ANY day over the new crap.

 

I play games for fun and as an "escape". Classic games with their more simple cartoony or computer-y graphics and sounds do that for me. Modern games and consoles with their "realism" DON'T

[desiv]

If we're talking about modern versus classic (when did that happen in this thread??), for me it's less about nostalgia and more about ease of use.

I don't have a lot of time to invest in game playing nowadays..

So, simpler is better. Quick and fun...

When I look at a modern controller with all the buttons.....

Nothing against it as probably the best way to play certain types of games, but it's not just fire (and maybe run)..

 

I think this is one of the reasons that the "casual game" market has taken off so much...

 

Yes, new beautiful looking/sounding games with complex story lines and controls can be awesome for a gamer...

 

But sometimes, I just want to run and eat dots...

 

I find it difficult to even get into the RPGs (computer) that I used to like back when I had more time... So it's not just nostalgia, it's time an playability.

 

 

desiv

[+GoldenWheels]

I think it is a little unfair to paint the newer consoles as simply grey/brown fps machines. There are simple, arcade like, pick up and play options for gamers via downloadable games.

 

Lately I tend to be like desiv--either my time is shorter, my attention span has decreased, or both, and I am craving simplicity and on/off gameplay. But then I fired up Final Fantasy 3 the other night. How deep will I make it before quitting and just playing some 7800 Joust? Who knows.

Edited January 29, 2014 by GoldenWheels

[SiLic0ne t0aD]

I never owned or played an Atari 7800. So I'm going to have to go with the NES for sure. My favorite system next to the ColecoVision

[NinjaFlicker]

The Atari 7800 wins for me, in a tight race. But that's mostly because I prefer the Nintendo/Square style of exploration based gameplay, and I'm horrible at simple Atari-era twitch games.

 

Allow me to explain.

 

I've played everything to death on the NES, and I've played that style again in every Japanese released console released since. And it's all evolved. How can anyone go back to Final Fantasy's slow squeaks, broken elemental damage/status attack systems, and endless grind, after playing any of the story based games in the series? What makes a Contra a classic, if you've already beat Gunstar Heroes and Metal Slug? Imagine playing Ys III or Symphony of the Night before Link's Adventure, and then coming back to the NES and trying to convince yourself that you're having fun as you wait for the s...l...o...w... text to fill the screen.

 

Besides, each of these games has an actual win state to reach for. Either you reach it, or you don't. Once you have reached it, what happens next?

 

By contrast, the 7800 keeps kicking my ass. And I can expect it to kick my ass in the time it takes for someone to reply to my answers on Skype on a slow day. But I'm only competing with my childhood. Can I beat my own high score?

 

With that said, and with all due respect to Ballblazer and Super Mario 3, if I'm going to play through an 8-bit library, it's usually a portable one. Link's Awakening, Parodius, Fatal Fury Special, Streets of Rage 2, Metal Gear Solid, Mr. Do, Mario's Picross, and Final Fantasy Legend II, simply have more to offer than their NES and 7800 counterparts.

 

And although not a substitute, Sonic Triple Trouble and the Warioland series help make up for losing Super Mario 3.

Edited January 29, 2014 by NinjaFlicker

[+swlovinist]

Played a 7800 at a friends house back in the day. I knew it back then as just an Atari. Played Joust and Mario Bros on the system. Played the NES within the same year. The NES was just getting popular where I lived(Northern California). Within a year many in my neighborhood had one. The only person who had a 7800 was my friend mentioned above. Played a ton of NES. Fast forward to post freshman year of college. My first games in my game collection was my box of 7800 games and system. A great game system that was really under supported at the time. I play both now, and have a complete library for both the NES(US) and 7800. Obviously the NES library of nearly 800 games give it more diversity.

 

As for the whole single arcade screen thing for the NES, I would have to say that Mario Bros is fantastic on it. One of my favorite games. As the homebrew scene, Battle Kid 1 & 2 are amazing.

 

My favorite 7800 game is Robotron 2084. I even created a custom twin stick controller to play it. (two tac 2 controllers, zip ties, and a unused shelving board)

[BydoEmpire]

they are also Much longer

I totally disagree. 30 years later I'm still playing Demon Attack, Galaxian, Donkey Kong and a million other classics. Once I finish a modern game, as fun as it was, it's done - no interest whatsoever to play again. Classic arcade-style games are longer because that's their entire design. They're meant to be played "forever." Nostalgia is certainly a part of it, but only one part...

 

Nostalgia is only part of it. Personal preference is a bigger, more important "thing".

Yup.