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HatefulGravey

Turbo Graphx 16 and case price check

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When you initially listed this as a price check, you listed the system, controllers, turbotap and case. You said you had games to sell too, but you were going to do research on those. The thing is, you did not say from the start that the package would require the games to be included. You asked for a price check and did not show pictures of any games, a list, etc. I think that kind of gave the impression that the console was (or was going to be) up for grabs on its own without the games. Someone mentioned $100-$150 range, and you said you would be fine with that. I am one who PM'ed you offering just that ($150 plus shipping), and you came back with $300 for the system and some games...not quite what I was looking for.

 

I understand you want to sell it with the games and make a whole lot more (who wouldn't), but don't be upset because some people are not using the console in the "traditional" way. You have decided to sell it, and the main objective for you would be to get money I would assume. So, if you do not want to sell it without the games, simply decline the offers and revise the posting asking for a price check with pictures and description of everything included.. If there is worry about what the console is going to be used for after the fact, maybe you can have them sign a contract promising never to do bad things with it! :-D

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I think the theory is that, say playing ROMs on an everdrive on your TG-16 is the same as playing the real chip on real hardware. ROMs through an emulator is emulation and some people act like they've smelled old tuna when you say that word. Purists.

 

When you emulate, you are losing a lot of the feeling in the process. The LCD monitor you are probably playing on, input lag with controls, graphical glitches, they all play their part in affecting the overall experience for many of us. Playing on real hardware, even if only through a flash cart, allows for the genuine feel received by playing on a real television set, with no input lag, and no compatibility issues. In the case of the Turbo Grafx in particular, it allows us to play imports on the system as well without needing an expensive converter, or re-wiring the system by hand. Taking into consideration how much Turbo Grafx games have risen in price over the years, the flash cart is pocket change when you think about it (about $80 and totally worth it).

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When you emulate, you are losing a lot of the feeling in the process. The LCD monitor you are probably playing on, input lag with controls, graphical glitches, they all play their part in affecting the overall experience for many of us. Playing on real hardware, even if only through a flash cart, allows for the genuine feel received by playing on a real television set, with no input lag, and no compatibility issues. In the case of the Turbo Grafx in particular, it allows us to play imports on the system as well without needing an expensive converter, or re-wiring the system by hand. Taking into consideration how much Turbo Grafx games have risen in price over the years, the flash cart is pocket change when you think about it (about $80 and totally worth it).

Not trying to sound like a dick:

 

I am aware of the issues surrounding emulation, as someone who has a hacked Xbox sitting next to 7 or so real physical consoles all hooked up to play at the press of one button. I was simply trying to explain it to the OP. I'll assume you are doing the same since the question was not really mine but I knew the answer.

 

Sometimes you certainly lose "some of the feel" using emulation. Where even 1 degree off can ruin it--as a Joust fan I can attest to that, timing matters to the nth degree. Other times you don't lose feeling at all, or the one degree is completely tolerable. I'd even suggest the heresy that I see games perform BETTER on emulation (reducing flicker in points and minimizing classic slowdown, ironically, because that is also an emu issue in itself). but the gasps might empty the virtual room of air.

 

Llet me just correct your mis-assumption: I game both on a 27 inch CRT and an older 60 inch rear projection LCD, both right next to each other basically. Perhaps newer TVs and their processing has gotten more intense, I wouldn't know, as my newest HDTV is 4+ years old, and my 60 is 7+. Lucky for me however my set displays no input lag, and I have verified this by using the CRT and the HDTV at the same time split off of the same RCA cable. Perfectly identical. The picture on the LCD is also, excellent, with the biggest difference (really only) between that and a CRT being a lack of vividness, that bright pop.

 

So far as cost and the everdrive, as someone who has tried to build an actual TG-16 library and certainly hit this issue head on, brother, I can relate. My actual library is the weakest sports titles+keith courage selection you have ever seen for that very reason. I'd love to have an everdrive, But at least for now, emulation fills my TG-16 needs.

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I do not even know where or how emulation got into any subject here. Playing games (or "ROMS" as some may call it) on real hardware is *not* emulation, period. When you insert a hucard (or a cartridge), you are inserting a PCB that contains a chip (or multiple chips) called ROMS. These contain the game data which is streamed into the console...and the outcome is that you play the game.

 

Someone (or many someone's) over the course of the years have read off and copied these ROMS from real cartridges and saved them on computers for archiving and use with emulators. The ROMS themselves are 100% the game code from the actual chip in the said cartridge (unless they were originally copied or "dumped" incorrectly of course). No different. The "emulator" is a program written on the computer that attempts to emulate the real hardware and run the original ROM code.

 

That said, if you take the original ROM code and run it on *original* hardware, you are not emulating. You are playing the real game on the real hardware.

 

When you call playing ROMS on an everdrive into a real machine "emulating", it's like saying playing a backup 5 1/4 floppy disk game on a real C64 is "emulating a C64 game". Or playing a copied VHS movie on a real VHS player is "emulating a VCR". It does not make any sense...at least for people who understand what is occurring when you play them this way.

Edited by eightbit
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I do not even know where or how emulation got into any subject here. Playing games (or "ROMS" as some may call it) on real hardware is *not* emulation, period. When you insert a hucard (or a cartridge), you are inserting a PCB that contains a chip (or multiple chips) called ROMS. These contain the game data which is streamed into the console...and the outcome is that you play the game.

 

 

How do you NOT know where that got into the subject here considering you already expounded in post #18 on my answer to his Q, that had already explained it? :? That was where it came in, he had a question. Pretty clear.

 

Anyway. Since it's been explained 4 times now, I am sure he understands the reasoning even if he does not agree with it. Good luck with your sale Garvey.

Edited by GoldenWheels

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How do you NOT know where that got into the subject here considering you already expounded in post #18 on my answer to his Q, that had already explained it? :? That was where it came in, he had a question. Pretty clear.

 

 

 

 

What I was trying to say is that emulation came in where it did not need to because there was a misconception that playing ROMS on real hardware was "emulation". I thought that was quite clear, but it wasn't according to post #24 (six posts after mine)...where there is mention of "emulating on consoles".

 

Anyhow, back to the sale. Please repost all of the items for sale and a price for everything. That would work.

Edited by eightbit
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What I was trying to say is that emulation came in where it did not need to because there was a misconception that playing ROMS on real hardware was "emulation". I thought that was quite clear.

 

Well since you said "I do not even know where or how emulation got into any subject here" it wasn't clear to me and I don't really think that is on me--since that is just not the same thing as saying "emulation came in where it did not need to"--to me that would be a"why did emulation come into any subject here" but even then, you know the answer...because he had a misconception.

 

I guess after that I was just unclear what explaining it again accomplished and was wondering if we have simply devolved into soapbox territory. Your first explanation was quite good and cleared anything up if perhaps mine was too ambiguous, though I explained it ok i thought.

 

EDIT quoted it before your EDIT (haha) but in light of 24, understood.

Edited by GoldenWheels

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@eightbit I meant no harm to you in anyway. Please don't take it personally. Honestly, the people giving me grief aren't going to post in the open. Believe me, if you have sold something here you have more than likely seen exactly what I'm talking about, if you haven't try it and see what I'm talking about. If what I'm talking about mirrors something we talked about in PM please believe it is completely unintentional.

 

I agree with those of you that say it isn't for me to decide what people do with it once it is sold. That is why it isn't sold. It is easy to assume money is my primary motivation. Clearing the extra things I picked up to make sure they made it to the hands of people that would enjoy them the way they should be enjoyed is the primary factor here. I'm not passing judgement on people that run roms at all. I have a lot of those too and a MAME machine in the living room. I'm completely ok with that. I just don't understand spending all that money if you are only going to run fake games on it. Call them what you want, they are fake games.

 

Yeah, I put a price on the collection. Yeah, it was $300. I priced it out over a 6 month average for the games, took a chunk off that because it is in a bundle and posted a number. No one likes to make an offer and those that will do it want to put the lowest of low numbers on things. Money isn't the primary motivation, but if I wanted to give it away I could do it locally.

 

This is more off topicish talk but I feel the need to say this as I'm not sure how long I'll be around here to say it and it certainly needs to be said. If you enjoy your hobby try to think that maybe your kids, and their kids will as well. If we let it all go to crap now what will be left for them? It might seem like a small thing and like I'm making more of it than I should but if you think that you are likely forgetting how great it feels to open the box that has that classic item you have been hunting for years in it. If you don't know that feeling you probably own more flash carts than actual games and you are missing out on the best part of this hobby. Even if I sell or lose everything I collected I'll never forget the first VCS game I played in my adult life, the first sealed VCS game I got in the mail 25 years after those stopped selling in stores, and the feel of 40 year old plastic still around because someone cared to it keep around because someone else might care in the future. Not many things this simple have the power to move people these days. If you have to hate me for feeling like this I'm ok with that and I hate that you have missed something that was this big for me. I hope you find that something for yourself one day.

 

/rant

 

This item is no longer for sale here, and for what it is worth I'm truely sorry I started all this over games. Don't forget, its all in the name of fun people.

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I have nothing against you at all my friend :) I love the same things you do and have been collecting now for 30+ years :) I understand your sentiment completely as I am sure most other people on AA do. I still do believe there is a place in the world for flash carts for the convenience factor and the wear and tear (protecting originals) factor amongst others, and was not trying to imply that it was "better" than the originals....just that on a technical level playing them that way is the same "code". I am a technician by trade so I tend to look at things deeply :)

 

It is your option as to whether you want to sell it here or not, but don't let these things get you down. I am still interested in the package for my brother's upcoming birthday...if you are willing to work a little on the price.

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Is the turbo booster still available? I would like one for my system. Thank you

 

I think the original poster wanted to sell as a bundle, but I will let him chime in on that. It appears you are looking for a/v out. If you are slightly handy and can follow directions, there are quite a few youtube tutorials on wiring for a/v. You can do it externally (easy method) or by getting inside and soldering the appropriate wiring to the pins for video and l/r. Or maybe you just want the authentic NEC booster itself...and this info will not help you at all :)

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