Retro gaming: HDTV or SD CRT?

[Cobra Kai]

I received the $50 model today. Works just fine with composite on my Samsung 22" LCD. Haven't tested S-Video yet. My Samsung lets me set the HDMI2 input to 4:3 via the menu. Isn't it that simple, or am I missing something?

I recommend doing a direct comparison with the same console. Play a quick game with composite and then, use S-video on the same console. When I did this with an old PS1 I was astonished. Although I will say that using a 22" display could possibly affect your perception of the upgrade somewhat. It's no secret that the larger the display the more you can perceive upgrades in resolution, and also imperfections. Personally I think using composite with this upscaler comes out the back end like trash, and I won't use it with composite if at all possible, but I'm using a 50" display.

 

I really wish I had the capability to do some screenshots of my rig to show the differences, but unfortunately I don't. I don't have a screencap device/recorder of any kind.

[+GoldenWheels]

Although results can be VERY mixed I would point out lots of AVRs can now convert various signals so you can get it them to your TV via HDMI. Won't add scan lines or anything like that of course.

 

But compatibility and performance varies a lot by model. And some of them DON'T let you turn off processing. But it can be useful.

[Tempest]

I've had mixed luck with my set up. The games look good, but the colors are a bit off. I think this is more of a problem with my monitor than the units though (it's old and probably getting worn out). I have both the SCART to Component and the SCART to VGA devices setup so I can pick the one that looks best. The VGA one looks really nice with no scanlines, but it also seems a bit washed out and there are some funny ghosting issues now and then but you have to be really looking for them to see it (ironically I actually first noticed them on the ghosts on the world map in SMW). The Component one has nice bright colors, but there are also scanlines which I don't care for and the pictures generally doesn't fill the screen so you get overscan areas that I don't like (sometimes they're black and you don't see them, but sometimes they're colored and stand out). However the Component one works with light guns and the 3D goggles so I keep it around. I guess it all depends on what system/game I'm playing at the time.

 

I'd love to get an XRG mini, but I cant justify the cost since I have a perfectly good setup right now. Maybe if my monitor dies on me.

[RegularGuyGamer]

I gota admit, I dont see the allure of a big tv when playing retro consoles. I think 26" in more than enough to get the full effect of awesomeness. I have a 22" CRT as my main gaming tv and I will trade HD for scan lines, 240i and a bubbly glass display any day.

[Tempest]

I gota admit, I dont see the allure of a big tv when playing retro consoles. I think 26" in more than enough to get the full effect of awesomeness. I have a 22" CRT as my main gaming tv and I will trade HD for scan lines, 240i and a bubbly glass display any day.

Actually I find large TV's make classic games look worse. Most of these consoles were developed when the biggest TV's people had were 24 to 27" or so and were designed around that size. When you put an old game on a 50"+ screen it just doesn't look right.

[+GoldenWheels]

Looks right to me!

[Cobra Kai]

Actually I find large TV's make classic games look worse. Most of these consoles were developed when the biggest TV's people had were 24 to 27" or so and were designed around that size. When you put an old game on a 50"+ screen it just doesn't look right.

It only looks worse if you don't also do the necessary upgrades to the consoles and the proper upconversion equipment. When you invest a little extra money everything is better.

 

I think your assessment is correct if you just hook straight up to a HDTV using nothing more than composite, or RF. From my experience doing that it is definitely worse, because all the imperfections of those inferior video outputs are enhanced, like ghosting, haloing and blurring. If you don't want to do video upgrades, than CRT may be the way to go, but CRTs have their own problems that develop over time.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Nuclear Pacman

[XC-3730C]

CRT all the way. And RGB output for the systems. Sony PVM monitors are a good intro to RGB classic gaming. Here are a few RGB CRT screenshots:

 

Equinox for SNES:

 

 

Mega Man Wily Wars for Sega Genesis:

 

 

Fighter's History Dynamite for Sega Saturn:

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

I don't see the sense in the xRGB for $300+. I also don't see the sense in the $40 converters which have the same crappy scalers in them as the HDTVs people are trying to avoid. These cheap scalers will incorrectly treat 240p sources as 480i (with the same venetian blinds effect on sprite flicker) and stretch 4:3 source to 16:9, with less and less HDTVs (and virtually no monitors) having the option to pillarbox HD content.

 

Midgets in football games annoy me to no end, ditto for stretched anything, including games.

 

If you've got room for 10+ game consoles, you can find room to place a CRT. No excuses!

[XC-3730C]

An X-RGB Mini also costs much more than even some of the more expensive CRT RGB monitors, and the quality is not the same either. Plus a major flaw of it is you can't save different configurations for different consoles.

[+wood_jl]

That RGB stuff is awfully nice! But you can come **close** for a lot less with a quality (JVC, for example) S-video monitor and a console modded for S-video. It's a nice option that comes close, considering the hassle and expense of an actual RGB setup.

 

I can't stand RF (channel 3) input.

I like composite input.

I love S-video input.

I'd probably REALLY LOVE RGB input, but I can't justify the expense.

 

SDTV (say, a 13" monitor) on the desktop (if you can't accommodate 200lb 32" CRT) is a really fun way to play classic consoles.

[CatPix]

I don't know how rare and expensive they are, but you cna hunt a RCA Dimension TV set of the 80's.

Why?

If you look at the back :

Here you are, SCART at home.

I do'nt know if other US TV included it.

[XC-3730C]

Yea but is that SCART RGB?

[CatPix]

Unfortunately, I don't have a definitive answer. I read here and there on forum that it does.

The best solution is I guess to spot one, and with with your RGB SCART console to test and try it.

[XC-3730C]

Well just so you know, just because it is a SCART looking connection, doesn't mean it supports RGB - it could be wired for composite video. RGB SCART was only available in Europe and Japan.

 

What model number is that TV?

[CatPix]

Some early Euro TV were fitted with compoiste only. Usually, except on high end TV, the second and third SCART input on Euro TV are composite only.

As for the number, I have no idea. I only know it's a high end models of the 80's.

[XC-3730C]

Your best bet for RGB is an amiga/commodore monitor, NEC multisync, or Sony PVM/BVM.

 

I highly doubt any USA consumer grade TV has RGB input.

[Video]

A good 19-27" CRT all the way. Most of those old systems were made back in a day when that was the LARGEST TV anybody (but the most wealthy) would have in their living room. And the kids, if they were fortunate enough to have their own TV, was likely either a handmedown, or really cheap 13-19" TV. That is what those games are designed to be on, and besides, if you have room for all those old consoles, peripherals, and games, you've got room for the TV.

 

If you sit the proper distance from the TV, the size of the screen isn't relevant anyways. At the proper distance, you won't see the scan lines and individual pixels. If your seeing those, your sitting to close. It's something like Distance to size, 2or3to1 for SD, and 1or1.5to1 for HD. But then, why say all this? Most people who don't know the size to distance ratios, are the same who never properly adjust color or brightness anyways.

 

Anyhow, unless you just HAVE to hook your stuff up to the massive HD TV in the living room, I'd go with a good CRT for the game room. It'll probably outlast your fancy HD TV as an added bonus...being from an era when quality was what manufactures cared about.

[zander21510]

If you can get the proper cables, and configure everything properly, old games aren't bad on an HDTV. If you get the adapter that changes the old RCA coax port to regular screw-coax, and use the cable-compandy grade coax, you can get great picture and sound without modding. I have it that way with my Intellivision and Pong consoles, Astrosmash at 47" is awesome!

 

What I also do is hook my stuff through a VCR/DVD Recorder from the early 00's so I can record my games, and this particular model is great because it upconverts VHS tapes and any input you give it to progressive scan. When it feeds the Intellivision and Pong ant TI-99/4A to my HDTV through component cables, no flicker or stretching. It still looks a bit blurier than with a CRT, but not bad. My TI-99 actually hooks up through composite and looks pretty good.

 

And then when I record my consoles with the DVD Recorder, it records as interlaced NTSC video, and with the magic of computers, I can render my recordings to look sharp and good.

[adamchevy]

I had my rgb modded NES hooked up to a Sony pvm via BNC and it looked amazing. But the small 20" screen bugged me. I hooked it up to my pioneer elite receiver through svideo and upscaled it to 1080p . It looked awesome on my 60" plasma. I have since sold the Sony pvm. The 600hz refresh rate of most newer plasmas is perfect for older consoles.

[XC-3730C]

I still prefer RGB capable (RGB beats s-video on any display) CRT's since old school games were designed for them.

 

With plasma/LCD, you loose light gun support and scanlines (no scanlines generator matches the quality of scanlines on a CRT RGB monitor).

[Andromeda Stardust]

If you can get the proper cables, and configure everything properly, old games aren't bad on an HDTV. If you get the adapter that changes the old RCA coax port to regular screw-coax, and use the cable-compandy grade coax, you can get great picture and sound without modding. I have it that way with my Intellivision and Pong consoles, Astrosmash at 47" is awesome!

 

Good point. I ditched the Nintendo/Sega RF autoswitches and simply stuck a RCA --> Coax adapter on the back of the console. The 5V bias for Nintendo and later consoles does not affect the signal and gets safely filtered out by the TV input. Now all my consoles have little Coax plugs on them just like an old VCR and I have a coax plugged into the back of the TV with a push-on adapter for easy removal. All my consoles look great even through RF using the coax. I've even got an N64 RF adapter with the Coax thingy on it. It takes care of the N64, Game Cube, and AV Famicom which all lack an RF output. I also have one of those old style RF modulators for anything else that does composite or S-Video out.

 

The Symphonic TV I'm currently using in the bedroom has a composite jack on the front but I lost the remote like a dumbass and cannot access "GAME" mode without it. The remote is likely "buried" in my room somewhere...

 

I also have an exquisite early 90s Zenith CRT display with woodgrain trim in the garage. It has a big beautiful screen which is too bulky for my current bedroom setup. The screen is absolutely gorgeous and displays perfect scanlines on my classic consoles despite being RF only. I'll be using it exclusively for classic gaming when the day comes that I finally get my own place.

 

HD gaming (Wii-U, Ouya, PS3, etc...) will be done solely on a low-latency 1080p PC monitor. Despite their smallish size, I do not trust the crap-shoot you get buying new HDTVs when it comes to input lag. Seems with the exception of a certain 55" Sony model, nearly all the big ones have lag issues. PC monitors are almost universally less than 1 frame input lag (<16ms; Asus is typically ~8ms) but generally they don't come in sizes larger than 27".

Edited November 16, 2014 by stardust4ever

[Giltygear]

I don't know how rare and expensive they are, but you cna hunt a RCA Dimension TV set of the 80's.

Why?

If you look at the back :

 

 

How much cash do you have just lying around your house?

[CatPix]

Real cash? About 50€ in a drawer.

Consoles and comps? No idea really, tho the total must be impressive I guess.

 

What a curious question to ask however

[Giltygear]

Real cash? About 50€ in a drawer.

Consoles and comps? No idea really, tho the total must be impressive I guess.

 

What a curious question to ask however

 

Figured I'd ask, seeing as how theres clearly a US bill just chiling on the floor in that picture.