Heretic

[Lost Dragon]

Open world game on PS1 with no loading:

 

Crystal Dynamics Soul Reaver.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-soul-reaver-legacy-of-kain-the-genesis-of-todays-open-world-epics

 

Software Projects Commodore 64 versions of Dragons Lair and Escape From Singes castle loaded the next level on cassette whilst you played the current level.

 

Hawkeye on C64 (Thalamus) loaded the next level during an intermission sequence...

 

Flimbos Quest (System 3) on C64 loaded the next level whilst game tallied up your score and bonus points after completing a level.

 

Just a few examples of attempts to remove or disguise loading times.

 

The classic C64 loaders

 

https://youtu.be/M3NkuS6pOfA

 

https://youtu.be/KLRSXrno_Pc

Edited July 20, 2018 by Lost Dragon

[Lost Dragon]

SWIV and a couple others on the ST/AMIGA load the game map data as it's playing.

It is very common in ST scene demos as well.

 

SWIV is a great shout:

 

From the Nowgamer feature on it:

 

 

"With approval from the boss, the team set about creating a brand new vertically scrolling shooter, initially for the 16-bit computer platforms. “I think the bulk of the design work was done by artist Ned Langman and Amiga programmer Ronald Pieket Weeserik,” says Dan. “Ronald worked very closely with programmer John Croudy (we believe they may have had a mind-meld) to develop a very complex engine for the game. First, they developed a Direct Memory Access system that allowed the game to load data direct from disk into memory as the game ran.” On the Amiga and Atari ST, the unique loading system allowed John and Ronald to create an impressive, enemy-packed landscape which scrolled continuously with no breaks in the gameplay. “This meant the game had one giant long level (with constantly changing graphics) and no between-level loading,” continues Dan. “It allowed them to dynamically update the level, so that if the player blew up a large enemy tank or similar item, a large crater could be stamped over the level graphic deforming the landscape.”

 

“The loading system was called DLS (Dynamic Loader System),” says Amiga/ST programmer John Croudy, recalling the ingenious technique. “We actually developed the idea for The Ninja Warriors, which had separate levels but loaded its sprites [moving objects] ahead of time. In SWIV this loader was reinvented and updated to allow both background tiles and sprites to be loaded in advance. The level map had markers for each background section or sprite, placed so that a sprite that was going to be needed sometime in the near future got loaded in time.“

[Lost Dragon]

Hopefully they are able to hack Frogz64 to look and play just as good as Frogger on Atari 2600, no reason a scaled down version of God of War couldnt be concocted using the Club Drive engine.

 

Why not just go for broke..

 

Crysis using the Air Cars Engine.

 

Might as well p#ss when your sat on the pot

[JagLynx4Life]

Any developments on Heretic? 

[PFG 9000]

You'd have to check with the folks at Jaguar Sector III.  Make sure to bring a few grains of salt with you.

[KidGameR186496]

Trust me, as someone who was expelled and witnessed the vanishing of Shawn Lavery (co-creator of Jaguar Sector III and one of the main two guys behind Jaguar Heretic) due to Kieren William Hawken's fucked up ego, don't expect to see this completed in this lifetime, as Shawn and Jeff Nihlean left the Jaguar scene after that debacle...

[JagChris]

On 3/15/2014 at 9:40 AM, Gunstar said:

Maybe I'm a bit over reactive about it all, I guess it comes from two decades of carrots being dangled in front of Jag users and then taken away. Maybe all this great stuff shouldn't be shown to the public unless the people doing it know for sure they will release it. But I also think that if someone does work, then decides to scrap it, or forget about it, they ought to release it into the public domain for others to make use of it, otherwise I see it as a total waste of time and effort. I wouldn't want to waste my time and effort, if I programmed and grew tired or left the scene or whatever, I would at least release it to PD, then it's not all wasted. Yes, just my humble opinion.

 

The one exception, of course, being copyright problems, but then why work on something if it's copyrighted and can never be released? That also seem foolish to me...again my humble opinion. But then that's why the Jag community is so jaded, we get all these carrots dangled and for whatever reason, they are pulled away. If developers want the Jag USER community to not be so jaded, then stop dangling carrots we can't have.

 

it doesn't matter if there is a legitimate reason or not, for not releasing something, if you show it, then don't release it, it IS dangling carrots and taking them away, and it only serves to make us users more jaded. And there are some of us users who might actually turn developer if some of these great tools would at least be released to the PD.

 

The Doom engine is a perfect example of pointless redundancy because people won't share what they've learned when they move on. I know at least three developers (current and former) that have cracked the Doom WAD issues on the Jag, then hide it away, requiring others to start from scratch all over again, and I also know of some who are doing just that, starting from scratch all over again!

 

The ONE exception was the guys who released the JagDoom II roms, and I'm exceedingly grateful to them for doing so.

It's too bad Belboz didn't release the TC tools like he said he would. Saturn would be tearing things up right now. 

 

Yes I know it's his work and can do anything he wants with his work. But these people seem to be drawn to the Jag community who want to hoard this stuff. No other community is cursed like this. They all come here. 

[Gunstar]

3 hours ago, JagChris said:

It's too bad Belboz didn't release the TC tools like he said he would. Saturn would be tearing things up right now. 

 

Yes I know it's his work and can do anything he wants with his work. But these people seem to be drawn to the Jag community who want to hoard this stuff. No other community is cursed like this. They all come here. 

Now nearly 3 decades of carrots and a community and developer community more jaded than ever and besides 2 or 3 good Jaguar (new original) releases all we have to show are a bunch of 16-bit ports or 16-bit looking games still; the biggest complaint about the Jag back in the day was too many "16-bit" games. At least the ones back then were good. I know real Jag games take effort and time, but there's been plenty of time now...but this is all why I haven't hung around here for years now. I wan to enjoy my Jag and this community takes the fun out of it...see you all in another bunch of years and see if some of these millennials ever grow up.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Gunstar

[+CyranoJ]

28 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

Now nearly 3 decades of carrots and a community and developer community more jaded than ever and besides 2 or 3 good Jaguar (new original) releases all we have to show are a bunch of 16-bit ports or 16-bit looking games still; the biggest complaint about the Jag back in the day was too many "16-bit" games. At least the ones back then were good. I know real Jag games take effort and time, but there's been plenty of time now...but this is all why I haven't hung around here for years now. I wan to enjoy my Jag and this community takes the fun out of it...see you all in another bunch of years and see if some of these millennials ever grow up.

No sharing?

 

RAPTOR API

JagStudio

Almost ready Doom tools/TC tools.... with community people already using them

RMAC / RLN

JiFFi

ULS

the list goes on and on and on

 

Jaded?

 

Large scale projects like Grav Mines, Last Strike?  Asteroite?  Nitrous? Crumbs?

 

You do realize devs are putting their own time, effort and in some cases finances into these projects and are (mostly) giving all this for free?

 

And what, exactly, have you contributed in this department over the '3 decades' ? And don't give the rudimentary "I don't know how to code" crap response - you've had THIRTY YEARS TO LEARN.

 

With an attitude like that... Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out

[+neogeo1982]

Ah man I clicked on this thinking maybe there was some Heretic updates or something ?. Now a Grav Mines pre-order update I'd gladly click on that too...

[Machine]

1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

Now nearly 3 decades of carrots and a community and developer community more jaded than ever and besides 2 or 3 good Jaguar (new original) releases all we have to show are a bunch of 16-bit ports or 16-bit looking games still; the biggest complaint about the Jag back in the day was too many "16-bit" games. At least the ones back then were good. I know real Jag games take effort and time, but there's been plenty of time now...but this is all why I haven't hung around here for years now. I wan to enjoy my Jag and this community takes the fun out of it...see you all in another bunch of years and see if some of these millennials ever grow up.

 

The Jag homebrew community is the reason I love the Jaguar so much.  Some really talented folks releasing some great titles. Plus, they're a good group of people. Only time I see the negative side of the Jag community is when people pop in to start an issue or re-hash stuff that is long dead.

 

[PFG 9000]

2 hours ago, Gunstar said:

Now nearly 3 decades of carrots and a community and developer community more jaded than ever and besides 2 or 3 good Jaguar (new original) releases all we have to show are a bunch of 16-bit ports or 16-bit looking games still; the biggest complaint about the Jag back in the day was too many "16-bit" games. At least the ones back then were good. I know real Jag games take effort and time, but there's been plenty of time now...but this is all why I haven't hung around here for years now. I wan to enjoy my Jag and this community takes the fun out of it...see you all in another bunch of years and see if some of these millennials ever grow up.

What the hell?  If you had coded one of these "2 or 3 good Jaguar new original releases," then a post like yours would be merely arrogant and entitled.  But unless I'm missing something, you haven't contributed shit to the community.  So where do you get off throwing shade at those who have?

 

The Jag fanbase has been pretty spoiled lately.  25 years after our console died we're still fortunate to have a lively homebrew community.  The only reason I'm not listing the awesome releases here is that I'd feel awful if I left somebody out.

[Goochman]

Id put rebooteroids up against most of the official title releases on the Jag - super fun and super polished.

[Gunstar]

10 hours ago, neogeo1982 said:

Ah man I clicked on this thinking maybe there was some Heretic updates or something ?. Now a Grav Mines pre-order update I'd gladly click on that too...

A game actually worthy of the Jaguar actually being released on the Jaguar?

[Gunstar]

Yep, same community still I've avoided like the plague for years now...

 

@Goochman , yep, one of the 2 or 3 good ones.

[Gunstar]

10 hours ago, PFG 9000 said:

What the hell?  If you had coded one of these "2 or 3 good Jaguar new original releases," then a post like yours would be merely arrogant and entitled.  But unless I'm missing something, you haven't contributed shit to the community.  So where do you get off throwing shade at those who have?

 

The Jag fanbase has been pretty spoiled lately.  25 years after our console died we're still fortunate to have a lively homebrew community.  The only reason I'm not listing the awesome releases here is that I'd feel awful if I left somebody out.

You are missing something...but I haven't been involved for years now in the actual online community and it will stay that way except for these few posts here now. I spend my time in the 8-bit community where they are actually still pushing the hardware to "new limits" with software and hardware unlike the poor Jag and community. I do love the new game drive I waited about 3 decades to happen. But I have been involved with a group of Jaguar developers (a couple actual commercial developers for the Jag back in the day) for about a year now, behind the scenes in secret, but it will be some time yet before we come forward. Of course this is all hearsay until we do come forward so...luckily I care not what most people in this community have to say about me, hell many have been in ignore for years and many of you here now weren't around when I was and I have no opinion about you.

 

Fear not! once this sentence is typed, I will disappear again as I prefer to have enjoyable experiences with forums and as per usual, it never happens in this one.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Gunstar

[phoboz]

1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

I spend my time in the 8-bit community where they are actually still pushing the hardware to "new limits.

Why spend time on trying to push 8-bit hardware when it can never look as good as games do on the Jaguar.

 

Tell me which Atari console (except for the new Atari VCS) that can deliver games like this?

Even if you call it a "16-bit game", that whole era was more, or less completely missed by Atari. While SEGA, Nintendo, and SNK (NeoGeo) had so many fun, and nice looking games, before blocky early 3D graphics took over.

 

For fans of 2D pixelart graphics, this era was really the top class for these kind of games. Not only for the looks, but also for the fun to play them.

 

Remember that the Jaguar was  designed to compete with SNES, and SEGA 32X, and not the PSX.

 

It's about time the Jaguar gets the attention it deserves, Nintendo, and SEGA has been considered the holy graal in the retro gaming community for years now.

Edited November 15, 2021 by phoboz

[Zerosquare]

1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

I do love the new game drive I waited about 3 decades to happen.

Thank you so much for your efforts. Waiting for others to do things is very helpful in itself, but doing so for 3 straight decades? Your commitment is exemplary.

 

1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

But I have been involved with a group of Jaguar developers (a couple actual commercial developers for the Jag back in the day) for about a year now, behind the scenes in secret, but it will be some time yet before we come forward.

Congratulations! It had been so long since someone in this community gave us empty promises shrouded in secrecy, we were starting to lose hope.

 

1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

Fear not! once this sentence is typed, I will disappear again as I prefer to have enjoyable experiences with forums and as per usual, it never happens in this one.

Please don't hesitate to come back to share your insightful feedback. We definitely need more people like you.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Zerosquare

[Bill Loguidice]

53 minutes ago, phoboz said:

It's about time the Jaguar gets the attention it deserves, Nintendo, and SEGA has been considered the holy graal in the retro gaming community for years now.

Can you elaborate on this? Why does it deserve attention? It's a system for Atari super fans and collectors. Can't that be enough? Why does it have to be recognized in the same way as more popular systems? The 16-bit Nintendo and Sega consoles are pretty untouchable when it comes to retro gaming since they hit that a technical sweet spot with tons of contemporary support. That doesn't take away from the greatness of other systems, or even what the Jaguar can offer to those who want what it offers.

[zzip]

1 hour ago, phoboz said:

Why spend time on trying to push 8-bit hardware when it can never look as good as games do on the Jaguar.

It's just a matter of numbers,   the 8-bit hardware is far more common, as is the programming knowledge needed.   There just aren't enough people with the Jaguar hardware and know-how to create a scene like that.

[phoboz]

26 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Can you elaborate on this? Why does it deserve attention?

Because it's a great console to develop new pixelart games for, without the limitations of the "older" 16-bit consoles (e.g. indexed color, memory constraints) Because the developer can focus on making a great game without worring about pushing the hardware to some limits. To use modern programming languages (used for developing indie games today for modern consoles) rather than pure assembly writing to strange harware registers.

 

Simply for being able to focus all time, and attention on making a great game, and not fancy tech demos without any depth.

 

Nobody complains if an indie game looks "16-bit" if it's released today for a modern console. Why does every game have to be a fancy tech demo for retro consoles?

Edited November 15, 2021 by phoboz

[phoboz]

25 minutes ago, zzip said:

It's just a matter of numbers,   the 8-bit hardware is far more common, as is the programming knowledge needed.   There just aren't enough people with the Jaguar hardware and know-how to create a scene like that.

Yes, it's much harder to deal with a 5 processor distributed system (with 16/32, 32, and 64bit CPUs), rather than one simple 8-bit CPU controlling everything.

 

Fortunately for the Jaguar there are great libraries to hide this complexity so developers can focus on the gameplay, pixelart, and sound/music.

Edited November 15, 2021 by phoboz

[agradeneu]

 

24 minutes ago, Bill Loguidice said:

Can you elaborate on this? Why does it deserve attention? It's a system for Atari super fans and collectors. Can't that be enough? Why does it have to be recognized in the same way as more popular systems? The 16-bit Nintendo and Sega consoles are pretty untouchable when it comes to retro gaming since they hit that a technical sweet spot with tons of contemporary support. That doesn't take away from the greatness of other systems, or even what the Jaguar can offer to those who want what it offers.

Because it deserves some great games, and it is a very capable console, despite many people dismissing it (for its library). So, proving the Jaguar can be just as fun as your SNES or NEO GEO, is a great motivation. 

Doing the fun games you really  want to play on the Jaguar....instead of waiting.  

Honestly, its my motivation too.

[agradeneu]

17 minutes ago, phoboz said:

 

 

Nobody complains if an indie game looks "16-bit" if it's released today for a modern console. Why does every game have to be a fancy tech demo for retro consoles?

That is not the general situation with retro consoles. The spirit is about making games that you like to play, childhood dreams,  not about trying to impress a niche audience.   

[agradeneu]

19 minutes ago, phoboz said:

Yes, it's much harder to deal with a 5 processor distributed system (with 16/32, 32, and 64bit CPUs), rather than one simple 8-bit CPU controlling everything.

 

Fortunately for the Jaguar there are great libraries to hide this complexity so developers can focus on the gameplay, pixelart, and sound/music.

The Jaguar is not exactly a PS4, but I agree that the creative spirit of new retro games culture is almost the same. 

Its powerful enough to make some fun classic games with some extra eye candy and visual impact, without worrying too much about hardware limits.