YASD - The Roguelike Thread

[Algus]

I've been on an Angband kick lately. Finally settled on Dwarf Cleric as my character and have been having a lot of luck.

 

I had a nice Lightning Maul and Mace of Orc Slaying then like an idiot I walked into a swarm of enemies and got zerged to death. Level 26 at 1000', furthest I've gotten so far. About to start up again.

 

I both hate and love this game

[+Gemintronic]

The only Rogue-likes I got serious about was D&D and Moraff's World for DOS.

 

Just to remind myself I recently went to RGB Classic Games

http://www.classicdosgames.com/game/DND.html

 

I got exactly one turn in before a Balrog kill me. YASD indeed!

[Hatta]

Nethack. Spent 4 years playing it off and on. Finally ascended an Archaeologist after about 150k turns. Started a new game, got almost all of an ascension kit put together. Then I realized I had climbed that mountain, and didn't really need to again. Haven't played since.

 

What do other roguelikes have that Nethack doesn't?

[+Gemintronic]

Nethack. Spent 4 years playing it off and on. Finally ascended an Archaeologist after about 150k turns. Started a new game, got almost all of an ascension kit put together. Then I realized I had climbed that mountain, and didn't really need to again. Haven't played since.

 

What do other roguelikes have that Nethack doesn't?

 

D&D didn't have great bounds checking. If you keep messing with Thrones eventually your stats go to amazing heights and shops offer plus gagillion swords

[Hatta]

That's the great thing about Nethack. It's the pinnacle of its genre. It was created well after Roguelikes were invented, was developed intensely for over a decade, and is essentially complete. There are no outstanding balance issues. There's little that could be added or taken away, and the roguelikes since Nethack have mostly tried to innovate rather than improve on the formula perfected by Nethack.

[Algus]

I haven't been able to get into Nethack. I adore Angband for its roots in Tolkien and D&D. I found this to be a fascinating writeup when I first came across it

 

http://www.iconbar.com/articles/Running_the_gauntlet_-_NetHack_vs._Angband/index1119.html

 

I love Angband's non-persistent levels. It's fantastic if you're cautious as you can spend time dancing around a range of 1-3 levels building up gear and experience. Angband does have a more tedious startup than Nethack though IMO. You really need to advance to level 20 and be on floors 11-20 before the game starts to get really interesting.

[Hatta]

That's a good detailed article. I'll defend Nethack a bit. All of his complaints seem to be features to me.

 

Interface, I got used to it quickly and it seems natural to me. I was able to do everything by muscle memory.

 

Feedback, this is a deliberate design decision. The player should be puzzled by unknown objects. It's why they randomize potions, spells, rings, etc in the first place. That's the meat of the game, figuring out what things actually do. Using those items to descend and get the amulet is secondary to inventory management, and staying alive long enough to discover the items you need.

 

I think his main problem was judging Nethack after a "couple of hours". Most of his annoyances are actually fun challenges, once you realize they can be dealt with in creative ways that make sense in the game universe. I also wouldn't recommend playing "unspoiled". Dylan O'Donnell's spoilers should really be considered documentation. It's still a huge undertaking to ascend when you know how the game universe is supposed to work.

 

For Angband, I really have to agree with his complaints about non-persistent levels. Not only is "stair scumming" a ridiculous metagaming strategy, but it also simplifies the game a lot if you only ever care about the level you are on. In Nethack, if I know that there's an altar on the level 2 floors above me, that's going to radically change my priorities. If there's a herd of lecrotta's by the stairs on the next floor, and I'm not leveled up enough to take them on, that's a serious problem that requires creativity to solve.* If the floors change every time you go back, it would make the game a lot less interesting.

 

Angband seems like it might be worth playing, especially since I'm not playing Nethack anymore. But I'd encourage anyone who likes roguelikes to spend some real time with Nethack, it's incrediby deep and balanced.

 

*e.g. If you have a wand of digging or a pick axe, you can dig down to quickly skip the level. Or if you have a wand of teleport. Or a scroll of scare monster. If you don't have any of these, or they're unidentified, you have to get more creative. Maybe find a leprechaun to eat to gain the teleportitis condition. You might hunt down a cockatrice and petrify it. You might even be able to eek out a win if you hit and run back upstairs to heal.

[Reaperman]

Anybody got any good sci-fi or 'non-traditional setting' roguelikes to recommend?

I sometimes get into these games (powder's the only serious one I've been hooked on), but I often I get hung up on not liking playing swordy-sword with elves and unicorns.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Reaperman

[+Gemintronic]

Anybody got any good sci-fi or 'non-traditional setting' roguelikes to recommend?

I sometimes get into these games (powder's the only serious one I've been hooked on), but I often I get hung up on not liking playing swordy-sword with elves and unicorns.

 

How about a 3D game like Doom turned into a text based Rogue-like turned into a 3D perspective game?

[Algus]

"swordy-sword with elves and unicorns" eh? LOL

[Reaperman]

"swordy-sword with elves and unicorns" eh? LOL

Yeah, the "standard fantasy setting" set back in the dark ages (or whatever) really bugs the hell out of me. They're all the same. "fantasy" is a huge misnomer. What they should call it is 'fake ren-faire accent and metal pants fights rats, then skeletons, then dragons and a wizard at the end.'

 

I shouldn't really pick on swords like that. I'm actually fine with swords--perhaps in the hands of an asian boy with purple hair and amnesia, or maybe pirates...or even better, space pirates.

Maybe I should focus my hatred into racist opinions of orcs, elves, dwarves, or anything from a shire instead. ...and don't even get me started on those halflings...Rolling around in their low riders, smoking up all the jobs in their freakishly long pipes...

Edited March 21, 2014 by Reaperman

[Hatta]

Yeah, the "standard fantasy setting" set back in the dark ages (or whatever) really bugs the hell out of me. They're all the same. "fantasy" is a huge misnomer. What they should call it is 'fake ren-faire accent and metal pants fights rats, then skeletons, then dragons and a wizard at the end.'

 

"Fantasy" is is shorthand for "Tolkien inspired". I agree, some sci-fi roguelikes would be welcome.