EmOneGarand Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Oh, come on.. It's bad, but it's not that bad.. I mean, don't get me wrong, this is in no way saying it's good, or even mediocre, or even average.. But there are definitely worse 3D fighting games, primarily Criticom, and The Dungeons and Dragons fighting game (Iron & Blood). Yeah.. Surprisingly, there is actually such a thing as being worse than Fight For Life. Toshinden URA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I also prefer Criticom and Iron & Blood. And Rise 2: Resurrection. I am honest to good that for me, I have not seen a worse 3D fighter to date.^^ The thing is, as impressive as FFL is as a tech demo, having relatively detailed characters with texures, and apparently at an acceptable framerate... I don't think that delayig the game by 6 months would have saved it. It may have a sufficient 3D engine running, but the entire gameplay is like in alpha stage at best. It would need fundamental overhaul in design, and then countless hours of finetuning. I am not kidding when I say how the really good players play fighting games, learning frames of animation. I have a friend who can tell me which moves in VF 5 are possible to counterattack with which, because attack A takes 12 frames to hit, and if your counter takes 13 even if you activate it immediately it will not hit in time. That's the in-depth kind of balancing going into game design, and what makes it so difficult to have a good balance between fighters. Everything must be beatable with any character pretty much. FFL is stuck at a point where that kind of fine tuning is still far away, there is some serious work to be done in the very basics first.^^ @Willard Well, VF was a huge hit for Sega, it was a blockbuster in Japan. Biggest thing they did in the 90ies beside Sonic. And at that time they were at their height of success, so I do think hey had the money and were willing to throw it at team members who were fundamental contributers. Atari was broke and had little income, having their coders work with shareware at times. To exaggerate, the company was in a state where you'd had to get personal permission by Sam Tramiel to get a new pencil. I just don't believe Atari could have offered Bertrand more than Sega, if Sega had been interested to keep him. In mybook, it all points to his work not being bad, but probably his position being exchangeable. About the documents: I don't have a link right now, but 3 or 4 years ago (maybe when Tiny Toons was released?) a bunch of docs from an atari computer was published. Humorous stuff like messages telling employeees how to use the toilet, and some QA notes. The one about Bertrand claiming FFL was better than Tohshinden was in there I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Toshinden URA... Sarcasm isn't your strong suit, it seems. URA is 100x better than FFL. Statistics so wild, they make me sound like a Toshinden fan. However, I assure you, I am NOT... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 That's what keeps the devs of games like Tohshinden up. "We may not have made a game as good as VF or Tekken, but hey, at least we didn't do something like FFL!" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Toshinden was also kind of impressive when it first came out. Granted, it didn't take long for console 3D fighting games to surpass it.. I hear you back. I too played relatively competitively (2D, not 3D fighters) around a DECADE ago(!), but always loved 3D fighters as much. I was just better at 2D! Yeah, I started off with 2D (as I'm sure most did), but when the local 2D scene became more niche and there were still at least Namco-run arcades around here, I began playing Tekken and so I was really into that for a few years, up until about the Dark Resurrection add-on came out for Tekken 5 in the arcades. Then ironically all of the Namco-run arcades here closed down, so that was the end of that, along with other things taking away my free time at that moment in my life. I tried revisiting a few other games down the road, like the online version of Third Strike, Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, Tekken Tag 2, but to be honest, these games are focused on the online aspect these days and it's just not the same for me. I prefer the in-person experience arcades offered (much better than the "go over to some strange dude-who-still-lives-in-his-parents-basement house and feel awkward in the process"). Anyway, if you feel you're up to it, you should definitely do a high-level playthrough of FFL, cherrypicking your fave moves from each character along the way I'd watch that I don't think there is such a thing as high-level FFL play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Toshinden was also kind of impressive when it first came out. Granted, it didn't take long for console 3D fighting games to surpass it.. It was definitely impressive when it first came out. It was the on the launch PlayStation's included demo disc and was heavily featured in the earliest advertising. To me, Battle Arena Toshinden was most fun for those who really weren't into fighting games like me. It didn't have a lot of technique to worry about (it was dodge/attack-based) and just concentrated on looking and moving good. While it lost favor to the more technique-based fighters as a result, to me, I would have liked more games like it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmOneGarand Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Sarcasm isn't your strong suit, it seems. URA is 100x better than FFL. Statistics so wild, they make me sound like a Toshinden fan. However, I assure you, I am NOT... yes cause that wasn't sarcasm. URA was awful, a spinoff of a subpar fighter that looked like a 1st year 3d art students demo reel that tried to justify its existence with the addition of 3 lazily designed characters. At least FFL tried to be a little more original with the ineptitude of those in charge regardless of its failed intentions as a 3d fighter for a failing console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Yeah.. As nerfed as Toshinden URA was compared to the previous entry on the Saturn, it's still about a thousand times better than Fight for Life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 yes cause that wasn't sarcasm. Precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Toshinden was also kind of impressive when it first came out. Granted, it didn't take long for console 3D fighting games to surpass it.. I don't think there is such a thing as high-level FFL play. No high-level FFL play? Sir, let me tell you that I made third place in the European FFL championships, held at e-Jagfest 2012! This makes me the no.3 FFL pro in all of Europe! It took MINUTES to achieve the skill level needed for that! I still smile remembering how Sandra from atari-shop.nl was winning against me, but then suddenly headed for the edge of the ring. I could swear she decided that it was better to be electrified than to make it further in the tournament and suffer more of those FFL rounds that feel like hours. About Toshinden: I t was definitely impressive visually. Seeing VF on Saturn and Tohshinden on PS running right next to it in the store sure sold quite a few PlayStations. Takara also deserves kudos for being the first ones to really use the 3rd dimension gameplay wise. VF had gameplay in 2D with 3D graphics, so did Tekken. I believe in Tekken 1 only Heihachi could stepinto the depth of the arena at will. But the effect of nice graphics and a cool gimmick wears off quickly. Part 2 was not quite as well received already, and with 3 and 4 the series had gained a bad rep. By that time Tekken 3 and VF2 not only played much better, but also looked better. And many others too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) I just don't understand why FFL is so hated. Yes, it is far from the best 3D fighters of the era, like Tekken, but I always preferred it over VF. I like the real 3 dimensional movement of side-stepping (the game really does require the pro-pad L&R are side-stepping), and the dodging instead of blocking the game uses. I never had a problem with the controls or timing, my moves work when I use them. I really like the graphics, and pulling off special moves and combos, and combo moves and special moves all in one for some incredible chains. Me and my friend used to play it non-stop for hours back in the 90's. We learned all the moves and had incredible bouts. The only thing about the game I don't like is how long the matches last (if you don't crush your opponent), they did need a timer for shorter bouts. But that's my only dislike. Now, I'm not a huge 2D or 3D fighter fan, but FFL is still one of my favorites, after Dead or Alive series and Samurai Shodown on the 3DO and the Jag's own Ultra Vortek. But if you don't take the time to learn the moves, then yes, it can seem to be a bit of a boring game, if you are just using the very basic kicks and punches, and if you don't have a pro-controller to use all the extra buttons (the game was definitely made with the pro-controller in mind) Edited March 22, 2014 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfman Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I just don't understand why FFL is so hated. Yes, it is far from the best 3D fighters of the era, like Tekken, but I always preferred it over VF. I like the real 3 dimensional movement of side-stepping (the game really does require the pro-pad L&R are side-stepping), and the dodging instead of blocking the game uses. I never had a problem with the controls or timing, my moves work when I use them. I really like the graphics, and pulling off special moves and combos, and combo moves and special moves all in one for some incredible chains. Me and my friend used to play it non-stop for hours back in the 90's. We learned all the moves and had incredible bouts. The only thing about the game I don't like is how long the matches last (if you don't crush your opponent), they did need a timer for shorter bouts. But that's my only dislike. Now, I'm not a huge 2D or 3D fighter fan, but FFL is still one of my favorites, after Dead or Alive series and Samurai Shodown on the 3DO and the Jag's own Ultra Vortek. But if you don't take the time to learn the moves, then yes, it can seem to be a bit of a boring game, if you are just using the very basic kicks and punches, and if you don't have a pro-controller to use all the extra buttons (the game was definitely made with the pro-controller in mind) 100% with you on this Gunstar ✌️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 It would be cool to see a game in the style of Tobal #1. That game looked amazing on the PSX when it came out. It was hi-res and ran at 60fps, because it was un-textured. I don't remember at this point if it was flat or Gourad shaded. I wish Atari had allowed this back when the Jag was still out. Not everything needed to be textured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto1980 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 hahaha European FFL championships and the winner ist best FFL player and krim is now russian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Gave it another chance yesterday...both the regular version and the JSII beta release.Yup...still crap. The graphics are fine for what it is, but the control is just insufferably clunky. Primal Rage is razor-sharp precision in comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) There is no talking around this. Sometimes you may want to like games, or you may find a strange attraction to bad games. I know that. But there is no way FFL is not really, really very bad. It just is. That's not even one of those things about opinions, there are just times when something is bad. FFL is a prime example. I respect other peoples' opinions on most games, but the game just has no positive attributes by genre standards apart from being visually impressive from the Jag.^^ hahaha European FFL championships and the winner ist best FFL player and krim is now russian Had you actually appeared instead of just talking you could have participated in the Kasumi Ninja EU championships in 2013. Edited March 23, 2014 by 108 Stars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto1980 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 i am worldchampion @ FFL.... me my bird, cat, a grandma and 2 friends had a championship -> i won but lets come to important stuff: i playd it ofthen till end, but only saw a diffrent (happy) ending with pog anyone saw another ending? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) There is no talking around this. Sometimes you may want to like games, or you may find a strange attraction to bad games. I know that. But there is no way FFL is not really, really very bad. It just is. That's not even one of those things about opinions, there are just times when something is bad. FFL is a prime example. I respect other peoples' opinions on most games, but the game just has no positive attributes by genre standards apart from being visually impressive from the Jag.^^ Had you actually appeared instead of just talking you could have participated in the Kasumi Ninja EU championships in 2013. I have news for you THIS IS YOUR OPINION My OPINION is that it's a good game and I like it. There IS TALKING AROUND IT, BECAUSE I AM! And your OPINION that it is really, really bad is ONLY your OPINION, and it won't change mine. I've enjoyed the game for nearly 20 years and your insisting it's bad won't ever change the fun I've had and will continue to have with Fight For Life. So stick your OPINION and "PRIME EXAMPLE" where the sun don't shine. Edited March 23, 2014 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I have news for you THIS IS YOUR OPINION I have news for you, I don't give a shit. If you think FFL is anything but abysmal, you're just plain wrong. There are things that are not up to opinion. Write that down: I don't respect your opinion and think if you like the game your batshit crazy and have no clue about video games. Edited March 23, 2014 by 108 Stars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I have news for you, I don't give a shit. If you think FFL is anything but abysmal, you're just plain wrong. There are things that are not up to opinion. Write that down: I don't respect your opinion and think if you like the game your batshit crazy and have no clue about video games. Well, you are just PLAIN WRONG and I don't give a shit what YOU say. FO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I love you too, eventhough you are clueless.^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto1980 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 good or not good... does every fighter have his own ending??? yes or now and if yes.. how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 All I know is Kasumi Ninja kicks the shit out of Fight To Stay Awake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I love you too, eventhough you are clueless.^^ You have serious psychological issues dude. Not everyone has to agree with what you like or hate. Grow up. Are you 8 years old? But I'm now over it, and I'd just block you, but apparently it's not an option. Edited March 23, 2014 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.