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Gazoo

Setting up a 632k cart

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Though Rich is voicing his disquiet here, it may be a very good idea to document the entire manual process of creating a GROM file for the UberGROM cartridge. There are a lot of less capable folks than you out there, Gazoo--and having a path to follow may actually get them thinking about what to put into their own UberGROM. I've had several back-channel requests for a how-to guide more detailed than what is already in the manual, and I'm not able to provide them a better answer than to direct them to this thread--which has a lot, but it is scattered amongst a lot of posts right now, so it is a bit daunting.

<snip>

 

I think it's a bit daunting because it's 'too capable'. :)

 

The 512k Rom bank switching is cool, I love it and understand it, but most of us are used to 16k switched as two 8k banks like in XB. So writing to c>6000 selects the first bank and writing to c>6002 selects the second bank. Just expand that to 64 banks and writing up to c>607E to select the one you want. So if you store a program in one or several of those banks, you select the bank by writing to the c>60xx address, then move the data there to the proper high or low memory address. Do that for as many program segments that you have and then branch to the start of the program, just as if you've loaded it from disk. The cart becomes a super fast Romdisk.

 

The Grom side in my opinion is too complicated for the average user to understand. I get your concept of 'slots', and I could program for them if I wanted to. However, 'pages' is what most users are more likely to understand. If the Grom side of the cart were presented as a '3 page Pgram', there would be more acceptance and understanding of it. It's all up to you builders, do you want just a couple of people that understand how to use and program for it, or do you want a larger subset of users to be able to program for it and use it?

 

Either way, let me know and I'll try to assist.

 

Gazoo

Edited by Gazoo

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smileyvault-stirthepot.gif

 

Nah... Just pointing out where Rich may have gotten the idea.

 

Ooops I somehow managed to answer Gazoo's question by editing my posting. Smooth...

Edited by slinkeey

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RXB please!

Nope. No more Grom space is available.

 

 

 

I'm sure you realize that was a request for me to add RXB, which has 40k of Grom, to a cart that had 16k of Grom space left. If you can find a way to compress that Grom code, let me know. I'll buy you beers 'till you fall off the stool. :)

 

Gazoo

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I'm sure you realize that was a request for me to add RXB, which has 40k of Grom, to a cart that had 16k of Grom space left. If you can find a way to compress that Grom code, let me know. I'll buy you beers 'till you fall off the stool. :)

 

Gazoo

 

Can we make a standalone RXB cart with the Ubergrom Cart? I think that is what they are asking - if we can fit other ROM stuff in with it, cool, if not, I'd also take a RXB cart with just the RXB GROMs and ROMs in it (and maybe a couple ROM utilities), just like I'm going to make a copy of your XB cart. The more variety, the better!

 

It only has 16K GROM left if you're trying to fit in into the one you've already done :)

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Can we make a standalone RXB cart with the Ubergrom Cart?

Sure, go ahead. ;)

 

Gazoo

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I have an idea to simply things for the cart, and I'll direct it to Rich.

 

Rich,

 

The cart is a 3 page Pgram. Create the Grom files for that.

 

The Rom for the cart doesn't have 2 banks, it has 64. So instead of 16k, it's 512k.

And it's not in separate files, it's all combined into one 512k file, and it needs the extension .bin on it.

 

I think the docs say that, but maybe not so clearly and concisely. :)

 

Gazoo

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Gazoo, that issue of programming the slots is exactly why Tursi was designing his loader--to make it easy for just about anyone with some programming skills to be able to set up a new cartridge configuration and load the GROM data into the proper slots. Turning it into a 3-page P-GRAM would actually reduce the capability of the board, as it would then only have access to three GROM bases instead of 16 (that would still be one mighty capable cartridge though, so the thought has some definite merit if we weren't planning on doing a user-friendly loader). Once they load the GROMs, all they have to do is burn a PLCC for the ROM side (if needed) and go.

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I'm sure you realize that was a request for me to add RXB, which has 40k of Grom, to a cart that had 16k of Grom space left. If you can find a way to compress that Grom code, let me know. I'll buy you beers 'till you fall off the stool. :)

 

Gazoo

 

Wait a minute here. You edited one one of your posts, and made this new posting.. I thought that I managed to edit my posting instead of replying... Wow... I do not think it will take many beers..

Edited by slinkeey

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I think you're right on target for the way we need to program it now though, Gazoo. The three-page P-GRAM is probably a very good way to look at it for now.

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Gazoo, that issue of programming the slots is exactly why Tursi was designing his loader--to make it easy for just about anyone with some programming skills to be able to set up a new cartridge configuration and load the GROM data into the proper slots. Turning it into a 3-page P-GRAM would actually reduce the capability of the board, as it would then only have access to three GROM bases instead of 16 (that would still be one mighty capable cartridge though, so the thought has some definite merit if we weren't planning on doing a user-friendly loader). Once they load the GROMs, all they have to do is burn a PLCC for the ROM side (if needed) and go.

 

I guess capability is a matter of perspective. Having owned several Pgrams and currently using an HSGPL, I don't 'waste' Grom space by leaving empty ones on a page. So a 3 page Pgram is more useful to me than random Groms spanning 16 pages. In my perspective, a full page of Grom is more useful than single Groms scattered willy-nilly across pages. But, 'to each his own', I guess. Either way, I'll find a way to push this cart to it's limits. ;)

 

Gazoo

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The slots allow me to take a whole lot of one or two GROM cartridges and load them into the cartridge all at the same time, with each cartridge on a different GROM base so that they will all show up in the Review Module Library menu. This is especially useful when they all have the same starting address. It makes them easier to insert into the device simultaneously, with a minimum of fuss. Please, push it to its limits--I really like that idea, as seeing folks use what I design is what spurs me on to do more. . . :grin:

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The slots allow me to take a whole lot of one or two GROM cartridges and load them into the cartridge all at the same time, with each cartridge on a different GROM base so that they will all show up in the Review Module Library menu. This is especially useful when they all have the same starting address. It makes them easier to insert into the device simultaneously, with a minimum of fuss. Please, push it to its limits--I really like that idea, as seeing folks use what I design is what spurs me on to do more. . . :grin:

 

Yea, but you don't need that. Most carts are converted to EA5 images, put them in the Rom, and make a menu in Grom as I've done. Review Module Library is a pain in the ass to page through. There's plenty of Grom for the cartridges (you only really need Grom for XB) and the menu, so if anything increase the Rom size. The XB 2.7 cart didn't really need to have the TI Writer/Editor Assembler and Disk Manager 2.1 carts in it, there are EA5 alternatives, as shown by the 512k program cart.

 

BTW, I believe you can put all 3 of the mentioned XBs in one cart, I just need a copy of XB3 to test my theory. ;)

 

Gazoo

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I have an idea to simply things for the cart, and I'll direct it to Rich.

 

Rich,

 

The cart is a 3 page Pgram. Create the Grom files for that.

 

The Rom for the cart doesn't have 2 banks, it has 64. So instead of 16k, it's 512k.

And it's not in separate files, it's all combined into one 512k file, and it needs the extension .bin on it.

 

I think the docs say that, but maybe not so clearly and concisely. :)

 

Gazoo

Thanks after doing some research it appears that XB 2.5 no longer has the GKXB ROMs as using the normal XB ROMs the editing features no longer function in commands:

 

COPY start line-end line,new start line,increment

or

DEL start line-end line

or

MOVE start line-end line,new start line,increment

or

RES initial line,increment

or

RES initial line, increment,start line-end line

 

These used to work in XB Version 2.5 but if the ROMs are not the GKXB ROMs that may be why these commands are not broken.

But then if in Version XB 2.7 they have been removed that would explain it. Not sure as I do not have a copy loaded into any of my emulators to check this out.

(I suppose you could check this in a few seconds.)

As for the RXB ROMs are the the same as the CLASSIC99 versions?

These are included in the RXB 2012 version that was released. I include the ROMs as you can use then to check.

RXB unlike XB 2.7 uses all 5 GROMs, GROM 3-6 for RXB and GROM 7 is REA 2011

Including ROMs here so you can check out if they are needed in XB 2.7 or not.

GKXB ROMs.zip

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These used to work in XB Version 2.5 but if the ROMs are not the GKXB ROMs that may be why these commands are not broken.

But then if in Version XB 2.7 they have been removed that would explain it. Not sure as I do not have a copy loaded into any of my emulators to check this out.

(I suppose you could check this in a few seconds.)

As for the RXB ROMs are the the same as the CLASSIC99 versions?

These are included in the RXB 2012 version that was released. I include the ROMs as you can use then to check.

RXB unlike XB 2.7 uses all 5 GROMs, GROM 3-6 for RXB and GROM 7 is REA 2011

 

XB v2.7 uses all grom space from g>6000 to g>FFFF, or all 5 groms on one page. This has been consistent since v2.1.

All versions from v2.1 through v2.7 use the normal TI XB roms as far as I know, I never changed anything in the Roms..

 

Gazoo

Edited by Gazoo

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You can sure pack a lot of stuff into these cartridges. I think these would be a perfect place to stuff a GEOS or CONTIKI like GUI for the TI. Setup like Telco, it could grab the pieces it needs, but since it would be grabbing them from cart, it would be fast, so it would look and feel like one huge super-functional mega program. Kind of the ULTIMATE program for the TI and it's posterity.

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XB v2.7 uses all grom space from g>6000 to g>FFFF, or all 5 groms on one page. This has been consistent since v2.1.

All versions from v2.1 through v2.7 use the normal TI XB roms as far as I know, I never changed anything in the Roms..

 

Gazoo

 

The 512K cart looks very impressive.

 

Cool I was way off. So do you have a copy of XB 2.7 that runs from Classic99 that I can get?

Also need to find a copy of the Documents as I think the only one I have is the 2.5 docs if I remember correctly.

 

Or is there someplace to download these?

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Here's another version of the 632k cart. It's the same as the other one except Super Extended Basic replaces XB v2.7 for you SXB users.

Cart files for burning and Classic99 version files are included.

 

Enjoy!

 

Gazoo

 

gallery_29515_833_20182.jpg

 

 

[deleted attachment=345659:632kSXB.zip]

 

Edited by Gazoo
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If you want to try it in Classic99 you need something like this in classic99.ini:

[usercart5] 
; *** 632K multicart
name="632K multicart"
rom0=3|0000|80000|mods\632kSXB\BackwardsROM.bin
rom1=G|6000|A000|mods\632kSXB\9800G.bin 
rom2=G1|6000|A000|mods\632kSXB\9804G.bin 
rom3=G2|6000|6000|mods\632kSXB\9808G.bin 

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Here's yet another version of the 632k cart. It's the same as the other ones except the rare Expanded Basic #3.0 by Winfred Winkler is used.

As in previous versions, cart files for burning and Classic99 version files are included.

 

Enjoy!

 

Gazoo

 

 

gallery_29515_833_15277.jpg

 

[deleted attachment=345688:632kXB3cartridge.zip]

 

Edited by Gazoo
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Thank you Gazoo! :) :) :)

 

You're welcome. The last one was really cool, I've never seen it in operation before. :)

 

Gazoo

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I've updated the three 632k carts to include the TI symbol on the menu, as well as correcting a few small bugs. Filenames have also been changed for all 3 carts so as to prevent mixing them up.

 

Updated menu screens are shown below and download links are at the bottom of this message.

 

Gazoo

 

 

gallery_29515_833_1709.jpg

 

gallery_29515_833_1326.jpg

 

gallery_29515_833_224.jpg

 

Edit: Carts have been updated, see later posts.

[deleted attachment=345826:632k XB27 Cart.zip]

[deleted attachment=345827:632k SXB Cart.zip]

[deleted attachment=345828:632k XB3 Cart.zip]

 

Edited by Gazoo
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Check out what might be the final version of the first ubergrom cart I'd like to distribute.

Files have been provided to those that can actually make them.

This cart is jammed full of stuff, virtually all the available space is used.

 

This message contains the files necessary to try it out in Classic99.

 

You'll need something like the usercart description below to get it running, adjust it for your system.

 

[usercart1]
; *** ubergrom cart - works ***
name="ubergrom XB v2.7 Suite"
rom0=G|6000|A000|C:\XB27\g9800.BIN
rom1=G1|6000|A000|C:\XB27\g9804.BIN
rom2=G2|6000|A000|C:\XB27\g9808.BIN
rom3=G3|6000|6000|C:\XB27\g980C.BIN
rom4=G4|6000|6000|C:\XB27\g9810.BIN
rom5=3|0000|80000|C:\XB27\Backwards512kROM.BIN

Things to try:

When powering up or on a reset, hold down the spacebar and you get the standard TI menu.
Only XB v2.7 is on the menu, but it will work without 32k being present if need be.

Without pressing a key on powerup:

From the white on blue menu, press the spacebar. You get a TI menu screen with 6 games,
Burger Time, Donkey Kong, Micro Pinball II, Ms Pacman, Parsec, and TI Invaders.
Press the spacebar again and it goes back to the white on blue menu. I tried to pick the
6 most popular games I know of per my family's likes. and I had 104k of Rom space left, just
enough to fit everything.

From the white on blue menu, press fctn7. You get the TI Diagnostics cart. There was one more
Grom left, enough for it.

Calls: 'XB', 'GAMES', 'TIW', 'EA', 'DM2', 'MENU', 'TESTS'. Type CALL and anything on this list

and it goes there from TI Basic or XB v2.7.
The same calls work as DSR entries from TIW/EA option 6, 'Run Program File'.
You can probably use them in programs, too, but I haven't tried that yet.

I've updated the Docs for XB v2.7 to Word format and included that here, too.

Enjoy!

 

Gazoo

 

xb27 suite classic99.zip

 

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Thank you, Gazoo! :) :) :)

 

You have a real knack for making chewy cartridge file goodness!

 

:) :) :)

 

I assembled 9 of the 512K/1024K boards incorporating your hack into the mask tonight. I'll be doing some testing to see if everything came out right tomorrow. . .

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Thank you, Gazoo! :) :) :)

 

You have a real knack for making chewy cartridge file goodness!

 

:) :) :)

 

I assembled 9 of the 512K/1024K boards incorporating your hack into the mask tonight. I'll be doing some testing to see if everything came out right tomorrow. . .

 

You are most welcome, Sir!

 

Having Rom and Grom to play with is like TI Paradise for me!

I can't remember when this was so much fun, have to go back to when I got a Pgram from Bud. :)

 

Gazoo

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