treismac Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hey, if a NES-style Punch-Out was made for the 7800, Mario would still be kosher as the ref, right? He's already in three other 7800 games as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YANDMAN Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 It's a point worth a truck load! For some reason people completely forget the NES relied on support chips inside the carts for better graphics since the beginning (Kid Icarus on up). Im not completely sure about that, The one and only confirmed cart im aware of using the sprite chip is double dragon 2, These chips were costly are were not implemented often and i have never heard of them being used in early cartridges, I could be completely wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 As mentioned here, anything that is not 'Mapper 0' used additional chips inside the cartridges. At the very least, they added additional memory for graphics and/or program related code that was not possible with just the base NES. Regarding a variety of graphic-specific tasks in addition to memory that the base system did not contain, here are a few quick examples of what the additional chips provided for games: Legend of Zelda, Metroid -Multi-directional scrolling configurations. (Mike Tyson's) Punch-Out!! -Allow a larger amount of graphics to be used on the screen. Mega Man Series, Super Mario Bros. 2 & 3 -Add a scanline based IRQ counter to make split screen scrolling easier to perform. Castlevania III, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Uncharted Waters -Support vertical split screen scrolling. -Made 16,384 different tiles available per screen rather than only 256. -Allowed each individual 8x8-pixel background tile to have its own color assignment instead of being restricted to one color set per 2x2 tile group. -Added a CPU cycle–based IRQ counter which can also act as a scanline counter. Batman: Return of the Joker -Allows generation of IRQ signals after a specified number of CPU clock cycles, enabling split-screen effects with minimal use of processing power. It sure would have been nice for the Atari 7800 to have graphic related enhancement chips and games developed for it that "Maria" could not perform on its own. What the base NES could handle without additional chips is highlighted in the original "black box" 30. These games exemplify and provide a sampling of the NES base capabilities: 10-Yard Fight, Balloon Fight, Baseball, Clu Clu Land, Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong 3, Donkey Kong Jr. (Math), Duck Hunt, Excitebike, Golf, Gumshoe, Gyromite, Hogan's Alley, Ice Climber, Kung-Fu, Mach Rider, Mario Bros., Pinball, Popeye, Pro Wrestling, Slalom, Soccer, Stack-Up, Super Mario Bros., Tennis, Urban Champion, Volleyball, Wild Gunman, Wrecking Crew. Love the NES and have ~150 cartridges plus the PowerPak. NES Rygar is my favorite 8-bit non-Arcade game of all-time. Regardless, the NES has A LOT of help for its cartridge library. Nintendo was wise in dumping a bucket load of cash into marketing and hardware for its games (Over 90% requires and contains additional chips to run) and obviously it paid off. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hey, if a NES-style Punch-Out was made for the 7800, Mario would still be kosher as the ref, right? He's already in three other 7800 games as it is. Nope. Neither fit for the dietary regulations of kashrut or intellectual property laws. It'd get killed before the first batch gets to eBay scalpers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Princess Yushira Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 The funny part of the arcade version was the bell sounding like a cartoon seal or a small dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hey, if a NES-style Punch-Out was made for the 7800, Mario would still be kosher as the ref, right? He's already in three other 7800 games as it is. I take it you don't know how far Nintendo will go to protect it's IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomaios Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 I take it you don't know how far Nintendo will go to protect it's IP. You mean like "Punch-Out!!"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Gemintronic Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 So, why aren't we taking this grand dream to Devin Cook and seeing if he's up for it? Atari style of course! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Some people like the flickerNES.. I dont... If flicker bothers you then you must also hate the Atari 2600 and Sega Master System. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 "Granted the 7800 doesn't have the power of the NES" Actually, the 7800 has comparable specifications. Look at "Ballblazer", for example. It just didn't have the third party support back in the day, so 99% of what we got was stale arcade ports. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 So, why aren't we taking this grand dream to Devin Cook and seeing if he's up for it? Atari style of course! Most likely he's not interested since he's been asked before with no response. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/121541-k-o-cruiser-my-first-homebrew/?p=2080548 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Many people think the 7800 wasn't as good as the NES. It was just as good as far as potential goes. If they had 3rd party support, more refined gamepads, manufactured it with POKEY, and had A/V outs... it would have been equal to the NES IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 If flicker bothers you then you must also hate the Atari 2600 and Sega Master System. I dont find the 2600 sprites go invisible for almost seconds at a time like the nes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I dont find the 2600 sprites go invisible for almost seconds at a time like the nes. Right. That is a frequent problem with every NES game. You can't play for two seconds in "Super Mario Bros." or "Contra" without the sprites turning invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Right. That is a frequent problem with every NES game. You can't play for two seconds in "Super Mario Bros." or "Contra" without the sprites turning invisible. Glad you understand where I am coming from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbd30 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Glad you understand where I am coming from! Yeah I read you loud and clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Punch-out is doable for the 7800, no mapper chips required - just a large cart to hold all of the player and enemy graphics. Here's a quick and dirty non-playable proof of concept in 7800basic. punchoutdemo.bas.bin punchoutdemo.bas.a78 Note that those are 3 colored tiles behind the players. I didn't bother to actually draw up a tileset of the ropes and crowd for this quickie, but MARIA is spending cycles rendering them anyway. Also, the enemy is 3 color, but a good artist could probably skip the black outline and use those colors better. Or a 7800 coder could use a less general-purpose routine than mine, and use 3 colors for the top of the enemy, and another 3 for the bottom. There's still a ton of cycles left for game logic. I'm not looking to make this into a playable game. I just wanted to dispel some of the notions people have of what the 7800 is capable of. It's a different machine, not a gimped NES. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I just wanted to dispel some of the notions people have of what the 7800 is capable of. Looking at your example above and some of the titles in the original lineup such as Midnight Mutants, whether it's Simon Yager's ram head, Damon Mohler's skull and upper spine, or Dr. Edward Evil's vampire bust, it is all the MARIA graphics chip standalone without any help. Other games like Motor Psycho's large player and enemy sprites that are a part of awesome, long, and high jumps, or even looking to Alien Brigade's tall with wide wingspan enemy creatures coupled with lots of action and detailed backgrounds, the 7800 is capable of so much. Now here with Punch-Out, we have an excellent quick demonstration. There are some dedicated talents, new and old alike, taking an interest towards more development, and your 7800basic tool and programming language with just a quick/dirty example, shows a lot to still be uncovered and tapped. Thank you for your dedication, work, and efforts in the community, RevEng and all the 7800 developers out there. Get into the guide people and dig in! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hey, if a NES-style Punch-Out was made for the 7800, Mario would still be kosher as the ref, right? He's already in three other 7800 games as it is. Sure if you don't mind taking the mild-to-high risk of Nintendo stepping in half way through development of the game to send DMCAs and Cease-And-Desist letters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Quick video of the demo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r838FSDYpc 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Quick video of the demo... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r838FSDYpc OMG that is so sexy. Would love to see a solid player graphic like the nitnendo version instead of the wire frame like the arcade but hey, awesome is awesome no matter how you cut the cake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thursday83 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Wow! This is exciting, it really looks awesome. Can it happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I would like to see NO player graphic, just gloves & arms. Third person with or without see through doesn't make as much sense as first person. Move the "camera" closer and now all you see are boxing gloves with arms. I always thought the wireframe was okay, but the green was an odd choice. More data space for blood and cuts, I mean animation and expressions. (Also would help make it avoid Nontindo.) I would more enjoy a good boxing game over an arcade port in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I would like to see NO player graphic, just gloves & arms. Third person with or without see through doesn't make as much sense as first person. Move the "camera" closer and now all you see are boxing gloves with arms. I always thought the wireframe was okay, but the green was an odd choice. More data space for blood and cuts, I mean animation and expressions. (Also would help make it avoid Nontindo.) I would more enjoy a good boxing game over an arcade port in this case. Yeah but the flickerest fans would say it couldnt handle the game so it was stripped down then.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 flicker fest fan I meant. wont let me edit. shows up blank.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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