Punch-Out for the 7800

[+Gemintronic]

For what it's worth, according to Hardcore Gaming 101 Punch-Out required a special chip to use the large characters in the game:

 

 

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/punchout/punchout2.htm

 

It's a point worth a truck load! For some reason people completely forget the NES relied on support chips inside the carts for better graphics since the beginning (Kid Icarus on up).

[7800]

I was just playing Punch Out the other day... hadn't played it in over 20 years. I was absolutely amazed and found a new appreciation for the game, especially for an earlier NES cart... very cool game.

[DracIsBack]

The arcade version of Punch-Out is meh while the NES version is sublime. Not to throw down a NES fanboy gauntlet or anything, but I just can't see a serviceable 7800 port of this game ever happening with the games I've seen on the system. I'd LOVE to be very wrong, though, as I have started playing (and kinda collecting for) the 7800 and really enjoy it.

 

It would have to likely do it the way the NES does it ... with an MMC type chip included.

[Trebor]

 

It's a point worth a truck load! For some reason people completely forget the NES relied on support chips inside the carts for better graphics since the beginning (Kid Icarus on up).

 

Indeed.

 

Take a look at this list here: http://tuxnes.sourceforge.net/nesmapper.txt

 

Anything under the mapper column that does not state "---- (0)" had extra chips in the cartridge. The additional hardware chips extended the capabilities of the NES with features and functions the base system did not provide.

 

Here's an incomplete list of one or more added features made available to an NES game by the additional cartridge hardware:

 

-Incorporate support for saved games.

-Multi-directional scrolling configurations.

-Allow a larger amount of graphics to be used on the screen.

-Add a scanline based IRQ counter to make split screen scrolling easier to perform.

-Extra sound channels (two square waves).

-Extra RAM.

-Support vertical split screen scrolling.

-Improved graphics capabilities (making 16,384 different tiles available per screen rather than only 256, and allowing each individual 8x8-pixel background tile to have its own color assignment instead of being restricted to one color set per 2x2 tile group).

-Allows generation of IRQ signals after a specified number of CPU clock cycles, thus enabling split-screen effects with minimal use of processing power.

-Support bank switching for program code and graphics as well as a CPU cycle–based IRQ counter which can also act as a scanline counter.

-Contain a YM2413 derivative providing 6 channels of FM Synthesis audio.

-Extra sound hardware that plays 4-bit wave samples - supporting 1 to 8 extra sound channels.

-A version of the Yamaha YM2149 sound hardware.

 

That vast majority (Well over 90%) of the entire NES library had additional hardware support. Without those additional hardware chips (Or "NES XM" ), you're left with less than 10% of the NES catalog of games which excludes the 'better' or 'more acclaimed' ones. The game code simply does not run on base NES hardware alone. It requires additional hardware to run fully, if at all.

 

Atari provided not even remotely near the amount of investing of additional hardware in their cartridge titles for the 7800 like Nintendo did for the NES. The unfortunate side effect is sometimes the impression that the 7800 system is so much more inferior. The truth is it was so much less supported and had no where near the amount of resources dedicated to it - hardware and otherwise.

 

Another misconstruction made sometimes is the NES was release in 85/86 for the US, and the Atari 7800 is originally from 84 in the US, so the 7800 is "older/inferior" in that sense as well. Not that dates necessarily matter, but NES is the older hardware from 1983 (Famicom launch).

 

Regardless, seeing the system with the right resources, as linked to earlier, games can and do shine on the 7800 even better than the NES. Commando is an excellent example of that fact.

 

BTW, the XM module (A conglomerate of cartridge type hardware) is only adding a small fraction of what NES cartridge hardware provided in both scope and depth. However, it should hopefully help level the playfield somewhat in assisting developers.

 

Not to forget too, all the fantastic new development tools and support from RevEng and (Mega)cart types and more development tools from CPUWIZ. Surely, some true "Super Games" can be developed for the 7800 now.

[Shawn]

 

It's a point worth a truck load! For some reason people completely forget the NES relied on support chips inside the carts for better graphics since the beginning (Kid Icarus on up).

 

MMC2 wasn't much more than a mapper for the larger amount of data banks. Same can be done with TTL logic no problem on the NES and the 7800 for that specific use.

[treismac]

Another misconstruction made sometimes is the NES was release in 85/86 for the US, and the Atari 7800 is originally from 84 in the US, so the 7800 is "older/inferior" in that sense as well. Not that dates necessarily matter, but NES is the older hardware from 1983 (Famicom launch).

 

I've seen that bit of sloppy historical chronicling more than a few times on online pop docs of Atari's legacy.

[Rhomaios]

 

I've seen that bit of sloppy historical chronicling more than a few times on online pop docs of Atari's legacy.

 

How can we possibly continue denigrating Atari if we're not allowed to cherry-pick the evidence?

[Dragon Princess Yushira]

Depending on the type of Punch Out you looking for, there are couple games I know can be used for reference.

 

NES style - AVGN KO Boxing or KO Cruiser except the boxers don't move around the screen or move back when hit

Arcade - Frank Bruno's Boxing which ripped off Super Punch Out. It came out on C64, ZX Spectrum and CPC which are less advanced than 7800 are they not? With that, this style of Punch Out a 7800 port shouldn't be that hard.

[Shawn]

If the C64 version could be matched I'd buy it on the 7800 no questions asked, wallet open.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoj_DFiXUs

[MadBomber]

^ Ugh, I love the Punch-Out games, but that is atrocious.

[Shawn]

^ Ugh, I love the Punch-Out games, but that is atrocious.

 

I assume it could be a little better than that BUT a video like that is a dose of reality striking Punch-Out!! 7800

[treismac]

Wow. The crowd in Frank Bruno sounds like the soft roar of the ocean. Doubt that was what they were shooting for.

[Hydro Thunder]

I'd say just have someone work off KO Cruiser as a template, that game's wonderful. And yeah, use whatever characters tickle people's fancy. I'm down with the suggestions above, as well as maybe some 7800 specific (Alien from Alien Brigade, the Ninja Golfer maybe) doods, and / or some Homebrew All Stars like Frosty, the helper elf from Toyshop Trouble, Idk. So easy to make suggestions when you can't program anything.

[Shawn]

I'd say just have someone work off KO Cruiser as a template, that game's wonderful. And yeah, use whatever characters tickle people's fancy. I'm down with the suggestions above, as well as maybe some 7800 specific (Alien from Alien Brigade, the Ninja Golfer maybe) doods, and / or some Homebrew All Stars like Frosty, the helper elf from Toyshop Trouble, Idk. So easy to make suggestions when you can't program anything.

 

KO Cruiser is ok for the 2600 but I would expect much more on the 7800. I like your idea of including the 7800 characters like the Ninja, Alien, ect.

[+Defender_2600]

I did this makeup during a short break. Technically impossible?

 

 

 

[Shawn]

looks nice but I'd much rather have a solid boxer as the player myself.

[gorfcadet]

I always liked the arcade wire fame guy better than the home version.

[Shawn]

I always liked the arcade wire fame guy better than the home version.

 

Honestly I would take either if it looked as good as that mock up. Beggars can't be choosers

[gorfcadet]

 

Honestly I would take either if it looked as good as that mock up. Beggars can't be choosers

Amen to that! To me the best part was the arcade voice. I would be all smiles to hear "body blow! body blow! he's down for the count." The nes version was a pretty special game too. Soda Popinski was my favorite opponent.

[+Defender_2600]

looks nice but I'd much rather have a solid boxer as the player myself.

 

..but with arcade graphics, the gameplay would be compromised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trebor]

Take away the wireframe except for the pieces that compose the outline of the torsal. Make the skin/flesh green (Swap shorts and skin colors in the previous mock-ups) and we have this guy fighting:

 

 

As your "hulkish" guy is knocked down his skin tone changes because he became this guy:

 

 

Your "Glass Joe" opponent:

 

 

Your "Mr. Sandman" opponent:

 

 

 

Finally, we have an Incredible Hulk game on an Atari system

[7800Lover]

Wow! Those are very impressive mock-ups!

[+Defender_2600]

Take away the wireframe except for the pieces that compose the outline of the torsal. Make the skin/flesh green (Swap shorts and skin colors in the previous mock-ups) and we have this guy fighting:

 

hulk1.jpg

 

As your "hulkish" guy is knocked down his skin tone changes because he became this guy:

 

hulk2.jpg

 

Your "Glass Joe" opponent:

 

hulk3.jpg

 

Your "Mr. Sandman" opponent:

 

hulk4.jpg

 

 

Finally, we have an Incredible Hulk game on an Atari system

 

 

 

[KevinMos3]

I never liked the arcade version because of the wire frame. I'd much rather see the player adapted to a suitable solid graphic. However, as Shawn Sr. said, if someone were to program this, I'd take either and not be too choosey.

 

*whispers* ...always hated the wire frame.

[treismac]

I did this makeup during a short break. Technically impossible?

 

 

 

 

Man... that is absolutely beautiful, Defender 2600. Truth be told, I'm not a fan of the arcade wire frame look, but damn- just damn.