Tron Deadly Discs - Combined Controllers

[+grips03]

 

In a potential dual joystick scenario, I am assuming that the second joystick will be mapped to the keypad. However there are 8 positions on the controller but there are 12 keypad buttons.

 

Some games require other keypad buttons apart of the 8 to shoot in different positions.

 

I am thinking about the central button to block in Tron (#5 on the keypad) or the buttons to count arrows, pick up things or climb stairs in AD&D (CLEAR, #0, ENTER).

 

How do you think this functionality can still be accessible in the dual joystick scenario? Thanks.

 

options for second controller:

 

It could be another joystick, keypad, and buttons that uses a second PCB - this would require are larger controller case, but zero effort on the PCB unless I wanted to combine them on a single CPLD or PCB.

 

It could be just a keypad that is wired to the second db9 port

 

A series of large or small buttons that look like a keypad

 

It could be a joystick that provides 8 directions and then a button for keypad 5 or 8, or whatever the "center" of the keypad is. The other three keypad buttons could be standalone buttons.

 

It could be a PS2 type analog stick that maps to 8 directions, with a built in press button for "center"

 

Something else?

 

I do not play any of the games where this would be needed, so I would need input on what is wanted

[Oscar G.]

Hey Grips… thanks for the input. I will give it a thought and get back sometime soon. Good night!

[doctorclu]

To give feedback to Oscar, the sandwich solution works in theory but so far I have not been able to get things working as I would like for them too. With some refinement it could be a good poorman's solution.

 

Now I like what I'm hearing from Grips. Sounds like Rapid Fire is off the table... perhaps. I dunno, I am still tempted to buy whatever Grips is putting together, plus I might go for rapid fire with a way to plug in external power. Luckily I have two Intellivision 2's now, so if the power frys the Intellivision it is all in the name of science and gaming.

[+grips03]

I've added a 555 timer to my Atari 5200 PCB and tuned it for Defender and Moon Patrol use. It works very well.

 

I could add it to Intellivision, it would use 30-150ua depending on the IC used.

 

The Intv2 arcade controller uses a single AA battery for power.

[Oscar G.]

Thanks Doctorclu for the feedback. To recap, it seems that dividing a single PCB into two outputs (the solution I attempted) is out. The double PCB may me a better option. There are two double PCB alternatives: "sandwiching" the PCBs into a single case (doctroclu's approach) or using a Neo Geo style of controller to comfortably layout the two PCBs (Grips03's approach).

 

It seems that "sandwiching" two PCBs into a normal controller case may require further refinement, so it will be interesting to think a little bit more about Grips' approach as it seems a better alternative at the moment.

 

In the post #26 Grips mentions different, and some quite creative, approaches for the keypad. I am inclined to favour using a normal keypad. This will eventually end up looking like Grips's current arcade controller but with a couple of cables going out (one for each controller port). I think this approach will be a "safe" bet.

 

Using a second joystick (with 8 or 9 positions) sounds like a great idea on paper but I am wondering how would the missing 3 or 4 keys of the keypad may be laid out. We have to bear in mind that there are also 3 action buttons to be mapped. If every button is to be mapped we would end up having a controller with two joysticks and 6 or 7 buttons! I do not know if such a configuration would make possible some intuitive game play in ADD or Tron DD.

 

Are there any other opinions?

[+grips03]

Thanks Doctorclu for the feedback. To recap, it seems that dividing a single PCB into two outputs (the solution I attempted) is out. The double PCB may me a better option. There are two double PCB alternatives: "sandwiching" the PCBs into a single case (doctroclu's approach) or using a Neo Geo style of controller to comfortably layout the two PCBs (Grips03's approach).

 

It seems that "sandwiching" two PCBs into a normal controller case may require further refinement, so it will be interesting to think a little bit more about Grips' approach as it seems a better alternative at the moment.

 

In the post #26 Grips mentions different, and some quite creative, approaches for the keypad. I am inclined to favour using a normal keypad. This will eventually end up looking like Grips's current arcade controller but with a couple of cables going out (one for each controller port). I think this approach will be a "safe" bet.

 

Using a second joystick (with 8 or 9 positions) sounds like a great idea on paper but I am wondering how would the missing 3 or 4 keys of the keypad may be laid out. We have to bear in mind that there are also 3 action buttons to be mapped. If every button is to be mapped we would end up having a controller with two joysticks and 6 or 7 buttons! I do not know if such a configuration would make possible some intuitive game play in ADD or Tron DD.

 

Are there any other opinions?

 

I could a sort of combo if more people like:

 

controller would look 100% like it does today, but I would add a second db9 port and a switch. If switch was moved then keypad would map to second db9 port. You would move switch back for keypad to map to first db9 port.

[Oscar G.]

 

I could a sort of combo if more people like:

 

controller would look 100% like it does today, but I would add a second db9 port and a switch. If switch was moved then keypad would map to second db9 port. You would move switch back for keypad to map to first db9 port.

 

The switch sounds like a great idea. I will definitely be interested in one.

[Oscar G.]

Unfortunately, it seems that the different threads (Poll for Best Game and homebrew releases) are taking too much traffic and attention lately so this thread is kind of buried.

 

Are there any other people interested in the Super Controller idea? Specially the option of having Grips controller with a switch.

[Oscar G.]

 

I could a sort of combo if more people like:

 

controller would look 100% like it does today, but I would add a second db9 port and a switch. If switch was moved then keypad would map to second db9 port. You would move switch back for keypad to map to first db9 port.

 

 

Just to clarify, Grips are we talking about your normal arcade controller with a switch to transform it into a super controller?

[+grips03]

 

 

Just to clarify, Grips are we talking about your normal arcade controller with a switch to transform it into a super controller?

yes, like controller is today, but with a switch to route the keypad from db9 port 1 to db9 port 2.

 

db9 port 1 = cable like today

db9 port 2 = female db9 port built into side of controller. One would plug in a db9 extension cable when you want to use db9 port

 

other idea would to use a single cord, but with enough wires for both db9 ports and then at the end of the cable split out to two db9 ports.

[doctorclu]

As long as this allows for accessing the keypad WHILE operating the joystick for better TRON Deadly Disc playing, I'm in.

[chrisbid]

great work, guys!

[+grips03]

 

 

Just to clarify, Grips are we talking about your normal arcade controller with a switch to transform it into a super controller?

 

Oscar,

Does that mean you would buy a controller like this?

[+grips03]

As long as this allows for accessing the keypad WHILE operating the joystick for better TRON Deadly Disc playing, I'm in.

 

Does that mean you would buy a controller like this? Current controller is $230, this controller would be $20 more due to extra parts needed. Still interested?

 

Is this type of case ok, or would I need another type so keypad is more usable?

Edited May 5, 2014 by grips03

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Does that mean you would buy a controller like this? Current controller is $230, this controller would be $20 more due to extra parts needed. Still interested?

 

Is this type of case ok, or would I need another type so keypad is more usable?

 

Does it support 16 directions, or only 8?

[+grips03]

joystick = 8

keypad = whatever the keypad does in the game, but in this case routed to db9 port 1 or db9 port 2 depending on switch setting

[doctorclu]

 

Does that mean you would buy a controller like this? Current controller is $230, this controller would be $20 more due to extra parts needed. Still interested?

 

Is this type of case ok, or would I need another type so keypad is more usable?

 

That does look a bit big. What other options do you have?

 

The controller is a D-pad or Joystick?

[+grips03]

 

That does look a bit big. What other options do you have?

 

The controller is a D-pad or Joystick?

 

its an arcade stick. 11 inches x 7.5 inches, with 30mm balltop and 24mm buttons.

 

Gamepads are too small for the pcb design I use, which really can't be changed.

 

I would need at least 10 people to be interested in a dual db9 port controller, otherwise its not worth the effort.

[doctorclu]

I figure it will be a while (but will happen eventually) that you will get 10 people.

 

So count me as number 2 on the list. Yes, I would pay $250 for a arcade style controller that would let me run AND throw the disc at the same time in Tron Deadly Discs. Heck yeh.

 

(Oddly enough, listening to the Wendy Carlos TRON soundtrack as I write this, which I haven't listened to in a few years.)

[+grips03]

I figure it will be a while (but will happen eventually) that you will get 10 people.

 

So count me as number 2 on the list. Yes, I would pay $250 for a arcade style controller that would let me run AND throw the disc at the same time in Tron Deadly Discs. Heck yeh.

 

(Oddly enough, listening to the Wendy Carlos TRON soundtrack as I write this, which I haven't listened to in a few years.)

 

I'll count you as #1 on the list Joystick is 8 way not 16, is it still ok?

[Oscar G.]

 

I'll count you as #1 on the list Joystick is 8 way not 16, is it still ok?

I want one too Grips… Can you make it a number 1 too?

 

Sorry was not logged in before

[+grips03]

I want one too Grips… Can you make it a number 1 too?

 

Sorry was not logged in before

cool, so we have

 

1-Oscar G

2-doctorclu

 

Would you:

 

A) prefer single cable with dual db9 ports broken out at end of cable. Cable may not be as flexible as as it would have 17-18 conductors in it

 

or

 

B) Two db9 cables, second db9 cable could detach when not in use

 

or

 

C) Both db9 cables would be permanently attached to the controller

[Oscar G.]

cool, so we have

 

1-Oscar G

2-doctorclu

 

Would you:

 

A) prefer single cable with dual db9 ports broken out at end of cable. Cable may not be as flexible as as it would have 17-18 conductors in it

 

or

 

B) Two db9 cables, second db9 cable could detach when not in use

 

or

 

C) Both db9 cables would be permanently attached to the controller

 

What would you recommend Grips?

 

I am inclined to think that option B would be better as the controller doubles as a normal "Grips Arcade controller".

 

Nonetheless, I trust in your experience and better judgement. Thank you for looking into this.

[+grips03]

 

What would you recommend Grips?

 

I am inclined to think that option B would be better as the controller doubles as a normal "Grips Arcade controller".

 

Nonetheless, I trust in your experience and better judgement. Thank you for looking into this.

 

 

I like option B. If I could find an awesome flexible cable with that many conductors (option A) then it would be my first choice - this is not likely. Option C is a bad idea.

[+grips03]

I checked the prices for multiconductor wire and Option A is off the table, unless people are happy with 15 conductor cable and one extra conductor heat shrunk to the outside of the 15 conductor cable.

 

Oscar I think you have the current controller, is the keypad in a good spot for the Tron game?

 

 

edit:

Newark p/n 99K0897 850006 25M might work

Edited May 8, 2014 by grips03