ColecoVision Flashback System

[KevinMos3]

Nice job on the CVFB Hand Controller Ball-Knob Mod. Did you consider looking into extending the shaft as well as adding the ball-knob?

Thanks! Before I chose this length screw, I tried some longer ones to see how they felt. I found that the longer the stick, the less accurate the control felt. Plus, I was mindful of the extra leverage of a longer shaft placing more pressure on the legs/pads inside the controller. For me, this length was perfect for the most accurate control, while keeping the leverage at a point where it won't easily break anything inside the controller. Since there's not all that resistance from a spring like in the original controller, extra leverage isn't needed anyway. It feels very precise and comfortable and still gives a classic gaming feel. It truly feels great. When using it, I keep thinking that this is what it should have been in the first place, back in the '80s. I really can't describe enough, just how much I love the feel of this. I'm really hoping others will try it, and ultimately, a similar design might find its way into a 2nd model Flashback. My only regret is that these controllers aren't compatible with a real Colecovision.

 

BTW, this mod is completely reversible. If I ever want to go back to the thumb-nub-disc, (never gonna happen), all I have to do is unscrew this knob and re-insert the original one.

Edited February 4, 2015 by KevinMos3

[chas10e]

IMG_20150203_140725.jpg

 

Fortunately, the narrow stems don't attach the same way as the original controllers. You can pull the stem straight out, revealing a square hole. It's just the size of some screws I had, so I cut off the tip and head with a dremel and epoxy'd it into the ball knob. From there, I just screwed the new knob into the hole, being careful not to screw too far (it only takes a few turns), and it provides a very strong connection that will not easily break off. Of course, you could break anything if you really try, but this new joystick knob is plenty durable. I played for a few hours on several games and it feels incredible. I absolutely love this and I'd like more people to experience it to see for themselves.

 

Now, I need to get one if these modified to work with the original Colecovision. This is SO much better than an original controller in every way (yes, even one modified with a ball knob). It's by far my favorite Coleco controller -- even much better than the Amiga PowerStick.

there's a rubber boot on bottom of knob ? you add that ?

 

which knob you get exactly http://knobsdirect.com/

 

look like you cut the finish end off an "E-Z Anchor" http://www.easyanchors.com/Products.aspx

 

very nicly done ...

[Andromeda Stardust]

Ha Ha Ha "Extending the shaft as well as adding the ball-knob?"

 

They purportly have some pills for this.

 

I prefer pac pellets, but little blue rhombi will also do in a pinch.

 

@KevinMos3: Could you provide a parts list with exactly what materials we need and where to get them? I can get screws and I have a Dremel and hand drill (and I also have experience cutting plastics). A step-by-step tut would be nice but if you can give us a parts list and text instructions I should be able to figure it out.

[KevinMos3]

@KevinMos3: Could you provide a parts list with exactly what materials we need and where to get them? I can get screws and I have a Dremel and hand drill (and I also have experience cutting plastics). A step-by-step tut would be nice but if you can give us a parts list and text instructions I should be able to figure it out.

 

The website is down at the moment, but I think the knob I used was the KD-1044 from KnobsDirect. You could probably go a size smaller on the hole if you like. If you go with the KD-1046 which has a bigger hole, they will also work with a regular colecovision controller without any modification. All you have to do is remove the original thumb-nub and screw on one of these ball knobs. BTW, someone mentioned that it looked like I put a rubber boot on it. That was just some of the epoxy, which I later decided to grind off.

 

The screw(s) I used were 10x1, or an equivalent 1inch by 1/8inch standard would probably be fine. It would probably be better to use a tighter thread because the ones I used are easy to get crooked when first starting to thread it in. A tighter thread might be a bit easier to get started straight, although the thread I used does work well. Also, you can see the screw I used had a pointed tip which I cut off, along with the head. This left it just the right length. I'd recommend using approx 1 inch length with whatever type screw you decide to use.

 

I also decided to add a bit of very thin foam to the underside of the directional piece to give just a tiny bit more resistance; although not enough to hinder movement of the stick. I can't imagine this foam will last very long, so I may go with something different eventually, or just go back to no foam at all. If you decide to put any foam in there, it has to be VERY thin (approx 1/16 inch or 1mm) because there's not a lot of room.

 

Here's a pic of the screws, the ball knob, and the foam.

 

Edited February 8, 2015 by KevinMos3

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

The website is down at the moment, but I think the knob I used was the KD-1044 from KnobsDirect. You could probably go a size smaller on the hole if you like. If you go with the KD-1046 which has a bigger hole, they will also work with a regular colecovision controller without any modification. All you have to do is remove the original thumb-nub and screw on one of these ball knobs. BTW, someone mentioned that it looked like I put a rubber boot on it. That was just some of the epoxy, which I later decided to grind off.

 

The screw(s) I used were 10x1, or an equivalent 1inch by 1/8inch standard would probably be fine. It would probably be better to use a tighter thread because the ones I used are easy to get crooked when first starting to thread it in. A tighter thread might be a bit easier to get started straight, although the thread I used does work well. Also, you can see the screw I used had a pointed tip which I cut off, along with the head. This left it just the right length. I'd recommend using approx 1 inch length with whatever type screw you decide to use.

 

I also decided to add a bit of very thin foam to the underside of the directional piece to give just a tiny bit more resistance; although not enough to hinder movement of the stick. I can't imagine this foam will last very long, so I may go with something different eventually, or just go back to no foam at all. If you decide to put any foam in there, it has to be VERY thin (approx 1/16 inch or 1mm) because there's not a lot of room.

 

Here's a pic of the screws, the ball knob, and the foam.

 

IMG_20150208_023055.jpg

I'm a bit confused with your measurements. You mentioned using a 10x1 or 1x1/8 screw. Well, the KD-1044 has 1/4" threads, twice the diameter of the 1/8" screw you recommended...

 

I'm assuming if the disc top screws off (I haven't tried dismantling the FB Coleco controller yet) I should just use whatever screw size and ball thread matches the square D-pad grommet. A countersink may work without cutting as far as having threads on both ends, but it may not be long enough.

[KevinMos3]

I'm a bit confused with your measurements. You mentioned using a 10x1 or 1x1/8 screw. Well, the KD-1044 has 1/4" threads, twice the diameter of the 1/8" screw you recommended...

 

Not exactly. The shaft of the screw is 1/8" but the threads make the total diameter about 3/16". That doesn't leave much room between the screw and the inside of the knob, which has much tighter threads, btw. It worked pretty good with epoxying the screw into the knob. I said in my previous post that you could use a knob with a smaller hole. I didn't choose this size knob or this specific screw. These are simply what I had on hand and they worked great for me, so I kept it simple, (knob + screw + epoxy = nice new controller stick and no trips to the store needed).

 

I also said you'll want to keep your screw about this diameter, but you may prefer different threads. In fact, a bolt of this size "may" be preferable since it has tighter threads and a flat tip that won't need cut off, but I've not tried that. Again, I have no need to try anything else because what I had on hand worked great for me.

 

 

I'm assuming if the disc top screws off (I haven't tried dismantling the FB Coleco controller yet) I should just use whatever screw size and ball thread matches the square D-pad grommet. A countersink may work without cutting as far as having threads on both ends, but it may not be long enough.

 

It doesn't screw off. The nub and shaft pull straight out. I mentioned that in one of my earlier posts and you can also see the 4 legged plastic piece in my previous pic as well as the one before that, which gives a better view of what it looks like with the full controller assembled but without the knob screwed in. (I think that was a run-on sentence).

 

If you can find a bolt/screw or something of that size that won't need tips/heads cut off, then that would be great. However, if you have a dremel handy, it's probably faster and less headache to just make something more common work for you. Curiosity and 5 mins of work (well, more like 15 counting the epoxy setting time), resulted in me having a better Colecovision Flashback gaming experience than I ever thought possible.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I can go to the local hardware store to buy whatever machine screws I need. I don't, however, have Epoxy resin, so that may create a bit of a conumdrum if the knob threads aren't available in a size that will also screw into the Dpad. Also it appears I'll be fitting a round peg into a square hole unless I drill it out, LOL!

 

So you basically filled in the hole on the knob with epoxy and drilled it back out with a smaller screw size?

[KevinMos3]

I don't, however, have Epoxy resin

 

JB Weld or any such epoxy will do nicely and if you get some, you'll find many more uses for it.

Another good epoxy is the more firm "Quik Steel." I'm often fixing broken things with some such stuff.

JB Weld also makes a similar type that comes in more of a putty stick. You can also get any of those clear, glue looking, epoxies (including the previously mentioned ones) at Walmart or pretty much anywhere.

 

 

Also it appears I'll be fitting a round peg into a square hole unless I drill it out, LOL!

So you basically filled in the hole on the knob with epoxy and drilled it back out with a smaller screw size?

 

You don't need to drill it out or put epoxy or anything else into it if you get the right size screw. I just put the screw in the square hole and it made a nice tight fit. I can remove the knob and put the original nub back in if I want. No permanent damage -- just a few thread lines inside that don't hurt anything and can't be seen if I stick the original nub back in.

 

 

Really... the way I did mine was soooooo simple.

Edited February 8, 2015 by KevinMos3

[Andromeda Stardust]

What diameter ball top you use?

[chas10e]

What diameter ball top you use?

said he used the KD-1044 http://catalog.knobsdirect.com/viewitems/phenolic-ball-knob/l-categories-knobs-knobs-direct-phenolic-ball-knob?

 

 

 

KD-1044 0.91 in 1.00 in 0.56 in 0.38 in Brass Phenolic Ball Knob Internal Threads 1/4-20

which has 1/4-20 threads & looks like he epoxied an "E-Z Anchor" in there after some trimming

_{^{sorry for the bad link earlier}}

 

again very nice job

[KevinMos3]

Thanks, chas10e.

 

@stardust4ever: I posted a pic of the screw(s) I used in the above post. You can see the size of the screws on the packaging. Again, I only used these screws and that size knob because that's what I had on hand. I can say that what I did was extremely easy and worked very well.

 

However, you "could" be more precise about it and get a ball knob that matches a particular screw thread if you wanted to. The KD-1042 may be a good candidate if you want to go that route. I epoxied the screw into the knob because it was faster and easier than hunting up a specific screw and ordering (and paying the shipping and handling again) on another ball knob that had an exact match to the size and threads of a particular screw. If you have nothing on hand, then you might choose to buy/order just the right combination, but personally, I think it's easier to let epoxy do the work for you.

[chas10e]

I couldn't edit my post but I could edit the image

[Andromeda Stardust]

Thanks guys. I'll prolly write down all the various thread sizes available for the ball tops, then go down to the hardware store with the Dpad piece in hand and see if there's a screw that fits without the need to drill out the Dpad or epoxy fill the ball top knob. Hell, might even buy an assortment of screw sizes, seeing they're only like 10-15 cents a piece. The gas to drive across town is literally cheaper than the screws, so if I buy more than I need, it's nothing. One thing though, if the threads are too fine, the cutting tool will leave steel burrs. In my experience, standard screws tend to have coarser threads than metric, but if there's a descrepancy in size, I could go with the smallest threaded ball top available and drill out the hole in the Dpad slightly. I imagine if I do this mod, it will be a permanent "improvement."

[KevinMos3]

That sounds like a good plan. I'd definitely recommend placing more importance on getting a screw that you can easily screw into the d-pad plastic piece. You definitely don't want to think about drilling out the d-pad IMO. As for the ball knob, if your size or threads don't match up, no big deal. Even if you don't use epoxy, hot glue would keep that thing attached to the screw pretty nicely. Heck, even elmer's glue. You gotta remember, when you have the threads of the screw with the threads of the ball knob, pretty much anything that dries hard will hold the two together quite well.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Okies... i wont drill it out... Hawt glu it iz...

[chas10e]

went to home depot & picked up a 4-pack of these "hanger bolts"

 

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-10-24-x-1-1-2-in-Coarse-Standard-Steel-Plain-Hanger-Bolts-4-Pack-16521/202704455

 

one end has the #10 coarse wood screw threads & other end 10-24 machine threads I happened to have a 10-24 threaded ball so I used that (will get some more !!!)

 

it was 1.5" long so I cut coarse end so total length is 1" as suggested above .... still need foam pads to help tighten it up some & threading in square is a challenge as stated above as well

 

the KD-1042 has the same outside dimensions with correct machine threads so no need for epoxy (good stuff to have around anyways)

 

thanks again KevinMos3 for the inspiration

 

 

The website is down at the moment, but I think the knob I used was the KD-1044 from KnobsDirect. You could probably go a size smaller on the hole if you like. If you go with the KD-1046 which has a bigger hole, they will also work with a regular colecovision controller without any modification. All you have to do is remove the original thumb-nub and screw on one of these ball knobs. BTW, someone mentioned that it looked like I put a rubber boot on it. That was just some of the epoxy, which I later decided to grind off.

 

The screw(s) I used were 10x1, or an equivalent 1inch by 1/8inch standard would probably be fine. It would probably be better to use a tighter thread because the ones I used are easy to get crooked when first starting to thread it in. A tighter thread might be a bit easier to get started straight, although the thread I used does work well. Also, you can see the screw I used had a pointed tip which I cut off, along with the head. This left it just the right length. I'd recommend using approx 1 inch length with whatever type screw you decide to use.

 

I also decided to add a bit of very thin foam to the underside of the directional piece to give just a tiny bit more resistance; although not enough to hinder movement of the stick. I can't imagine this foam will last very long, so I may go with something different eventually, or just go back to no foam at all. If you decide to put any foam in there, it has to be VERY thin (approx 1/16 inch or 1mm) because there's not a lot of room.

 

Here's a pic of the screws, the ball knob, and the foam.

 

IMG_20150208_023055.jpg

[KevinMos3]

That looks great. I'm glad you found those bolts. Thanks for sharing the info on that source. I may have to pick up a few, along with some of that size ball knob. I'd like to put together a handful of these for family/friends etc. who have a Flashback.

After playing for a while last night, that temporary pink foam I used seemed to lose it's body, so I just now replaced it with foam double sided tape. I used Goo Gone to remove the adhesive from one side and it seems to work fairly well. Regardless, extra resistance isn't all that important to me. I'm mostly experimenting with it because I figure some people will miss having much resistance.

 

In my opinion, a controller should translate your intended movement to the screen with as little interference as possible. With just the ball-knob mod and no extra foam or anything, the controller now does that quite well. That's what surprised me so much when I first tried this. I was doing SO much better in EVERY game and enjoying games I've never liked before because the original Coleco controller just made them no fun. It really pointed out how much the controller was working against me. I'd say probably upwards of 80% or even 90%+ of my deaths in games were due to the poor controllers. That was evidenced by my scores with this modded FB one. Getting 30,000 points in Frenzy and still having lives remaining pretty much speaks for itself (I only ended the game because I needed to get some sleep, but who knows how much longer I could have played before dying). Also, last night, I got to level 6 in Antarctic Adventure and I've never gotten past level 2 with an original controller. Now, my deaths/wrecks/etc. are due to my own bad decisions rather than the controller not doing what I want it to. The more I play now and the more I think about it, the more I absolutely abhor the original Coleco controllers. The game should not be a struggle or fight with the controller. The struggle/fight should take place on the TV screen.

 

 

went to home depot & picked up a 4-pack of these "hanger bolts"

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-10-24-x-1-1-2-in-Coarse-Standard-Steel-Plain-Hanger-Bolts-4-Pack-16521/202704455

 

one end has the #10 coarse wood screw threads & other end 10-24 machine threads I happened to have a 10-24 threaded ball so I used that (will get some more !!!)

it was 1.5" long so I cut coarse end so total length is 1" as suggested above .... still need foam pads to help tighten it up some & threading in square is a challenge as stated above as well

the KD-1042 has the same outside dimensions with correct machine threads so no need for epoxy (good stuff to have around anyways)

 

thanks again KevinMos3 for the inspiration

[Andromeda Stardust]

Since the screw on the hangar bolts is self-tapping, maybe it would be a better idea to screw it into the hole first, remove it, then cut off the excess? Might be a little easier to get the hole started. I'll look for these in store.

Edited February 10, 2015 by stardust4ever

[Tron Unit]

Wow I just went to order a couple of ball knobs from Knobs Direct. Is it really $12 shipping for $2 knobs?!?!

Edited February 10, 2015 by Tron Unit

[KevinMos3]

Since the screw on the hangar bolts is self-tapping, maybe it would be a better idea to screw it into the hole first, remove it, then cut off the excess? Might be a little easier to get the hole started. I'll look for these in store.

The hole is too shallow so you'll almost certainly need to cut the tip first.

 

Wow I just went to order a couple of ball knobs from Knobs Direct. Is it really $12 shipping for $2 knobs?!?!

The shipping is a bit high, especially when you add the $4.50 handling charge. Its best to order a bunch of whatever you want in order to make it worth it.

 

If there are several people interested, I'd be willing to purchase the parts, assemble them, and send them to ppl for the raw cost plus shipping. I could probably send out a set of these in a padded envelope for approx $1 shipping (I'd have to check). The more people who want some, the more the S&H from knobsdirect would be divided up, so the cheaper they would be.

[Tron Unit]

Awesome man! I'm in for 2 knobs. Thanks!

[chas10e]

trying to get a line on another supplier .... should get back to you shortly but I'd be looking @ 4

[Hyperboy]

4 knobs for me if this goes through please!

[Andromeda Stardust]

The hole is too shallow so you'll almost certainly need to cut the tip first.

This is obvious. Screw into the hole to tap the threads, creating a strait secure thread. This will require complete disassembly of the controller. Then remove the screw prior to cutting it or cut it off rearward of the hole.

[Andromeda Stardust]

The hole is too shallow so you'll almost certainly need to cut the tip first.

 

 

The shipping is a bit high, especially when you add the $4.50 handling charge. Its best to order a bunch of whatever you want in order to make it worth it.

 

If there are several people interested, I'd be willing to purchase the parts, assemble them, and send them to ppl for the raw cost plus shipping. I could probably send out a set of these in a padded envelope for approx $1 shipping (I'd have to check). The more people who want some, the more the S&H from knobsdirect would be divided up, so the cheaper they would be.

Awesome man! I'm in for 2 knobs. Thanks!

Excellent. Put me down for two knobs. I need one with the 10-24 threads to match the hangar bolts. Preferably the 1" model (option B) as I like 'em big and knobby...

http://catalog.knobsdirect.com/item/phenolic-ball-knob/l-categories-knobs-knobs-direct-phenolic-ball-knob/k-0025-sb-va8?