New NES console announced by Analogue Interactive

[godslabrat]

Dude, any HDTV that didn't provide a 4:3 mode wouldn't get a dime from me.

 

Anyway, it's not as simple as HDMI vs. composite. No, composite inputs aren't disappearing, but as I discovered when my in-laws bought their set, manufacturers aren't putting on five or six sets of them anymore. You're lucky to get two. More relevant to the NES, though, is that newer sets don't handle the signal the same way. Some try to process the signal and add lag, or smooth it and add a blur. HDMI could, in theory, get around this and produce a more pixel-accurate image by handing the video directly to the TV in digital form. In practice, it's still not quite that simple, but it's a start.

 

Also, understand that "the way it's always been" is totally a matter of perspective. Now we get into questions of "is a flat screen good or bad, does the curvature affect your enjoyment?" and "are scanlines desirable or not?" We start to ask ourselves if the "old look" of the games was by design, or if we as gamers simply did the best we could with the tools we had.

[Atariboy]

I bet your brother's television does offer that. He just needs to go searching for it since I'm assuming it's kind of hidden on this particular tv. It's a standard option so if it's anything from a known name, is a tv instead of a computer monitor, and isn't HDMI only (Perhaps hasn't happened yet but inevitably will be soon as we move further away from the SD age), I bet he can choose a variety of options to handle SD/ED sources including maintaining the 4:3 AR.

 

As for when HDTV's leave behind SD support entirely, that's a moot point with what's being discussed here. This custom NES or what I've alluded to (Using a quality external scaler like a XRGB Mini paired with the best quality connection between it and the console that you can get officially or via modding) are outputting a HD image that was pillarboxed during the scaling process.

 

All the HDTV has to go is display the 16:9 HD signal being sent to it via HDMI just like if it was displaying a image from the latest game console.

 

No, composite inputs aren't disappearing, but as I discovered when my in-laws bought their set, manufacturers aren't putting on five or six sets of them anymore. You're lucky to get two.

I bet they will relatively soon. We've seen VGA and S-Video disappear, we're starting to see only a front or side composite input on some sets for maximum compatibility with SD, and if it's a higher quality set, not uncommon to merely have a rear combined composite/component input these days.

 

Component's days are numbered, composite is going to be growing unnecessary in a few years and goes unused for many current customers as it is, and most machines playing DVD's upscale the image themselves and send out a HD signal over HDMI.

 

And DVD is by far the most common non HD source that's being displayed on the average HDTV (At least in homes where the tv is connected to a HD cable/satellite/OTA source... I'm sure a surprising number of users hooked it up the way they always have and just assumed it's suddenly HD). Not many people playing pre DVD formats on their modern tv's, the PS2/Xbox/GCN age is fast being relegated to the classic gaming realm, and Wii is getting pretty long in the tooth.

 

And classic gamer's don't even register on a tv manufacturer's radar.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Atariboy

[S1500]

$872 for the grand total, huh?

I'll just stick to emulators with sky high prices like that. Retrogaming need not be that expensive.

[SoulBlazer]

$872 for the grand total, huh?

 

I'll just stick to emulators with sky high prices like that. Retrogaming need not be that expensive.

If it wasn't for emulation, I'd have been broke years ago.

 

That said, if the NES clone was done right -- something like the upcoming Intelivision and Colecovision Flashbacks -- I'd be all over it. In fact, even though I game 99 percent mostly in emulation, I'm still going to get those two flashbacks due to all the pros they have.

 

And my TV doesn't have game mode. It's a Magnavox LCD Widescreen 42 inch from 2009.

[godslabrat]

I bet they will relatively soon. We've seen VGA and S-Video disappear, we're starting to see only a front or side composite input on some sets for maximum compatibility with SD, and if it's a higher quality set, not uncommon to merely have a rear combined composite/component input these days.

 

 

I've wondered about this. I can just say, I hope you're wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if you weren't. S-Video and VGA were always niche types of connectors, and Component is really unneeded in this day, HDMI does the same thing with a cheaper, simpler cable. I think we're seeing a thinning of the herd, where TVs with ten different connection options are going away, but the ones everyone uses will remain... that being HDMI for HD and a composite or two for SD.

 

I think composite will be around a while longer just because of the sheer number of peripherals that are composite. Your $30 wal-mart DVD players and novelty plug-and-play electronics all use composite because it's just cheap to do. There are just too many of those types of devices in the world to not support them. Even in an HD-only world, people will still try to get by with low-end stuff.

[Bald_Bull_jr]

"VGA", "S-Video", "HD", "HDMI", etc. etc. - ? Bah, I never cared/noticed back in the day, and this hasn't changed. Hell, I'm fine with a half-butchered 2600 bolted to the top of a b&w TV, so long as I'm having FUN playing.

[Bill Loguidice]

"VGA", "S-Video", "HD", "HDMI", etc. etc. - ? Bah, I never cared/noticed back in the day, and this hasn't changed. Hell, I'm fine with a half-butchered 2600 bolted to the top of a b&w TV, so long as I'm having FUN playing.

 

Too simplistic. If there's a way where the picture looks better and the sound sounds better, why not take advantage of it? It won't necessarily make the game itself more fun, but it may make it a more enjoyable experience. I know I get my consoles and computers modded whenever possible for any type of upgrade over RF, which is almost always unpleasant to say the least. Just because we couldn't do any better way back when when we had 13" - 19" SD TVs, doesn't mean we can't do better today.

[CatPix]

If anything, the ability to just plug your system in the TV/monitor is something great. It seems less of an issue in the USA, but in Europe, last-gen CRT TVs were poor at catching non-over-the-air TV RF signals, even from an humble Pong system, making older systems hard to play, simply because the picture would be a fuzzy ghoslty thing, if not simply never displayed on TV with a non-removable "blue screen - no signal" function.

HDTV are even worse on that matter, of course.

Edited May 14, 2014 by CatPix

[Atariboy]

I like playing 2600 games on my childhood B&W set. Everywhere else, including my primary 2600, I aim for the best picture possible.

 

I've wondered about this. I can just say, I hope you're wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if you weren't.

I hope I am, too.

 

That said, I predict in the next 2 or 3 years that front or side mounted HDMI jacks will consign composite connections in those spots on tv sets to history and that even things like AtGames plug and plays will switch over.

 

Any composite that is left will be relegated to a single port on the rear without component support and only then on the more fully featured sets before that too disappears. With upscaling DVD players and backwards compatible Blu-Ray players, there's no need to support SD/ED for DVD which will be around as a format for a number of years to come.

 

Anything else is niche or soon will be like the Wii or can connect via HDMI.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Atariboy

[+wood_jl]

$872!!!!! Gee, that's a better deal than buying a PS4 + Xbone for the same money!

 

However, Hedge Fund Managers, knock yourself out with that system; I'll bet it looks great riding around in a Bentley Continental GT or Bugatti Veyron! Somehow, I still feel satisfied with a standard NES and a sharp CRT. I know I'm supposed to feel disappointed with such meager (and affordable) hardware, but I do not. (P.S. The picture's great!)

[+GoldenWheels]

 

Too simplistic. If there's a way where the picture looks better and the sound sounds better, why not take advantage of it? It won't necessarily make the game itself more fun, but it may make it a more enjoyable experience. I know I get my consoles and computers modded whenever possible for any type of upgrade over RF, which is almost always unpleasant to say the least. Just because we couldn't do any better way back when when we had 13" - 19" SD TVs, doesn't mean we can't do better today.

 

Eh...when we're talking about systems which can do RF and composite right out the box depending on which stock cord you have, sure, use the composite if you can. But IMO that's a far cry from modding systems for upgraded output, which either requires technical knowledge and ability and the parts, or a supply of cash which often might equal the cost of the system itself, plus finding a reliable source to do it. We live in a smaller collector's world where AV mod upgrades seems fairly normal but it's really not something most retro players will do or want to do or care to do. Just having fun for most is, in fact enough.

 

I think RF can be a mixed bag too....my Coleco's RF is absolutely AWFUL. My 7800's RF is just OK. My TG-16's RF is VERY good, with none of the stereotypcial static/ghosting/waviness.

[Atariboy]

$872!!!!! Gee, that's a better deal than buying a PS4 + Xbone for the same money!

 

However, Hedge Fund Managers, knock yourself out with that system; I'll bet it looks great riding around in a Bentley Continental GT or Bugatti Veyron! Somehow, I still feel satisfied with a standard NES and a sharp CRT. I know I'm supposed to feel disappointed with such meager (and affordable) hardware, but I do not. (P.S. The picture's great!)

And you actually can play Zapper games.

[godslabrat]

That said, I predict in the next 2 or 3 years that front or side mounted HDMI jacks will consign composite connections in those spots on tv sets to history and that even things like AtGames plug and plays will switch over.

 

 

Who knows? It's always hard to predict tech trends. Some things (Zip Drives) only have their moment in the sun for a few years, and then are gone as quickly as they arrived. Others (floppy discs) hang on for years, even decades, past the point where they're practical. It's impossible to tell anything with certainty, because the trends and forces in every scenario are unique. But... this is a game I like to play, so forgive me.

[Osgeld]

this is getting off topic but I foresee composite sticking around for a while, HDMI is nice and everything but its not a direct signal which requires extra hardware or software to deal with, which means more money. On the flip side composite is the absolute cheapest and quickest way to get video out, got a few pins and a couple resistors? boom composite.

 

Even my made in 2013 brand new digital cable box offers composite, but not hdmi or component ... and there's where I think the next death will be, 3 wire component. It was never very popular, its kind of sort of hard to find devices that support it, and its half way there to hdmi. Followed eventually by RF, no one uses RF anymore other to ensure that cheap box A works with old TV B

Edited May 15, 2014 by Osgeld

[+remowilliams]

Anything but HDMI is going, fast. You can either realize it or ignore it.

[+wood_jl]

... and there's where I think the next death will be, 3 wire component. It was never very popular, its kind of sort of hard to find devices that support it, and its half way there to hdmi. Followed eventually by RF, no one uses RF anymore other to ensure that cheap box A works with old TV B

This would be in-line with the Xbox 360E - the 3rd revision of the console that is styled like the Xbone. It has no VGA, no S-video, no Component, and (of course!) no RF. It offers HDMI and *standard* composite, only. Clearly, most everybody's going to utilize HDMI, and they include the old composite for extremely low-end customers. Composite will die too, but I suspect it will hang on longer than Component, much as the lowly VGA is *still* sticking around long after DVI has been largely-dropped (on TV sets, at least). Of course, S-video is long dead.

[Osgeld]

Anything but HDMI is going, fast. You can either realize it or ignore it.

 

so fast its been out for over a decade and still is a feature option!

[+SabertoothRetro]

When will they machine a Jag/CD combo? At least then the price point starts to make sense vs. original hardware.

[Austin]

When will they machine a Jag/CD combo? At least then the price point starts to make sense vs. original hardware.

 

But if they did that, they wouldn't be able to get away with a 700% markup.

[CatPix]

DVI has been largely-dropped (on TV sets, at least). Of course, S-video is long dead.

Well yes and no.

Digital DVI use the same basic signals than HDMI, so you only need a DVI-to-HDMI cable/adapter. Older HDTV would even display "HDMI/DVI" as the input name. Now, maybe newer TV sets drop the DVI support? I can't tell, but I think it's part of the HDMI norm so they have to include it. Of course one issue with DVI is that it will not carry sound.

Edited May 15, 2014 by CatPix

[mkiker2089]

I'm fairly sure HDMI and DVI share the same specs so it's just a matter of getting the correct cable. Oddly enough I've never seen a cable that takes sound input from a different source to add to the HDMI end. I don't know why.

[+GoldenWheels]

I bet your brother's television does offer that. He just needs to go searching for it since I'm assuming it's kind of hidden on this particular tv. It's a standard option so if it's anything from a known name, is a tv instead of a computer monitor, and isn't HDMI only (Perhaps hasn't happened yet but inevitably will be soon as we move further away from the SD age), I bet he can choose a variety of options to handle SD/ED sources including maintaining the 4:3 AR.

 

I bet the same and it could be as simple as setting the aspect ratio to "native" or whatever named equivalent, an option I assume TVs will have to have....forever.

[CatPix]

I'm fairly sure HDMI and DVI share the same specs so it's just a matter of getting the correct cable. Oddly enough I've never seen a cable that takes sound input from a different source to add to the HDMI end. I don't know why.

It's because on HDMI the sound is transmitted as data and not on analog; so the cable would need to include an Analog-to-Digital chip... are HDMI or DVI cables able to carry a bit of power? I don't think so.

[mkiker2089]

It would have to convert, I forgot about that. It's not hard to convert audio to digital but it's not something to be put in a simple cable.

 

HDMI can carry power. The new HDMI spec allows power with the intention of allowing devices like smart sticks or games to run without external power. It's also designed to charge devices like flash drives or phones. It's called MHL but so far I think Roku is the only real player to use it.

[mkiker2089]

Correction, I may be confused about MHL. I thought it was using the HDMI spec but I can't find much on it now. I remember the promise of Google TV sticks and such but I can't verify it now since the dream seems to have died.