mäsäxi Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Is there any sense in dreaming of buying NTSC cartridges for PAL TI-99/4A? Will I have graphics and sound problems or games not working at all? I don´t have TI-99/4A yet, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary from OPA Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 There should be no issues, 99.99% of all commercial cartridges produced use the standard VDP timer to control their game graphics, as such they will function fine on either system. I can't recall ever seeing an issue, or having something labelled as NTSC or PAL only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mäsäxi Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) What a relief to hear that! I haven´t watched too many ebay TI-99/4A listings lately, but it seems usually there aren´t many games (if any) bundled with TI-99/4As in Europe area. In U.S.A. things seem to be totally opposite. I hope I could get cheap enough PAL TI someday. Edited May 12, 2014 by mäsäxi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) What a relief to hear that! I haven´t watched too many ebay TI-99/4A listings lately, but it seems usually there aren´t many games (if any) bundled with TI-99/4As in Europe area. In U.S.A. things seem to be totally opposite. I hope I could get cheap enough PAL TI someday. I live in Italy and always purchased items from USA since 1998 and i never had no problems with Catridges from USA ... so i think you can purchase them for 100% working on PAL Edited May 12, 2014 by ti99userclub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 There should be no issues, 99.99% of all commercial cartridges produced use the standard VDP timer to control their game graphics, as such they will function fine on either system. Which means that games run about 16% slower on European consoles if they depend on the VDP interrupt. Mind that our VDP interrupt is at 50 Hz, while NTSC is at 60 Hz. Sprite automotion is definitely affected. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99_forever Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Which means that games run about 16% slower on European consoles if they depend on the VDP interrupt. Mind that our VDP interrupt is at 50 Hz, while NTSC is at 60 Hz. Sprite automotion is definitely affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99_forever Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Giving Europeans an unfair advantage in competitions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ti99iuc Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Which means that games run about 16% slower on European consoles if they depend on the VDP interrupt. Mind that our VDP interrupt is at 50 Hz, while NTSC is at 60 Hz. Sprite automotion is definitely affected. Wow ! you sure of it ? ... i never tried a "PAL vs NTSC" comparation of the carts but i have Cartridges made in Italy (and so should be European PAL !?) and the same games Made in USA (and so should be only NTSC...) ... this is correct ? or i should disassemble the cartridge and check the PCB to understand if they are the same ? at least, maybe all the cartridges are the same from the factory and the computer only do the difference ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens-eike Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 There is no such thing as PAL or NTSC cartridges for the TI-99/4A!!! One ebay-seller tries to sell carts as "NTSC-only", but he is probably influenced by japanese video games - Nintendo or Sony have some system dependant games, but this is more a licensing issue, as the region codes on DVDs. I have tried playing Alpiner in parallel on a PAL and NTSC console at the 2006 Treff, the music played 20% faster on the NTSC console due to more frequent VDP interrupts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mizapf Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 at least, maybe all the cartridges are the same from the factory and the computer only do the difference ? Sure, the difference comes from the VDP interrupt rate in the console. The programs are all the same. You can get that in MESS as well when you compare ti99_4ae versus ti99_4a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
am1933 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 (edited) I have never encountered a TI module from America that does not work on the PAL systems, The Intellivision is another system which seems to have no issues in this regard-same can't be said for the Atari 2600-some truly horibble stuff happens to ntsc cartridges when played on a pal system(Imagic were really bad). Edited May 13, 2014 by am1933 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmusr Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Wow ! you sure of it ? ... i never tried a "PAL vs NTSC" comparation of the carts but i have Cartridges made in Italy (and so should be European PAL !?) and the same games Made in USA (and so should be only NTSC...) ... this is correct ? or i should disassemble the cartridge and check the PCB to understand if they are the same ? at least, maybe all the cartridges are the same from the factory and the computer only do the difference ? If you have an F18A installed you're running at 60Hz anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tursi Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yeah, unlike some game systems, the TI hardware can't switch between 50 and 60 hz, so the software will work fine and you'll never get color or rolling issues as a result of PAL versus NTSC versions. However, you will get the mentioned speed difference for a lot of software (anything that uses the interrupt rate, often sprite motion and music), since PAL systems run at 50hz and NTSC systems (and F18A, as mentioned) at 60hz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mäsäxi Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 Thank you everybody for your help!!!!!! I am familiar with the speed difference. In the eighties I may not have been aware that such thing could even exist, but in this millennium when I started to use emulators, I tried some of my old favourite MSX cartridge games on emulator and found out that japanese 60Hz MSXs played music disgustingly fast! May I ask one more (different) question, so I don´t have to open another topic for it? Does ordinary universal power supply unit plug into TI-99/4A? I mean those ones which can be bought from the shops and they have at least voltage select switch too. I thought as different type of power plugs are used in different countries, so most probably I will get TI-99/4A with "wrong" power plug type which will not plug into my wall socket, and it would be easier to just use some universal power supply unit, I have several of them already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It needs a proper 99/4A power supply which produces two output voltages. Which country are you in exactly - I don't think you've said? If you're in the UK, I've got at least one spare 'power brick' which can be had for the cost of postage, should you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Also, don't forget that the electrons in the USA and UK power supplies spin in opposite directions. This is a real problem for games like Parsec, because the landscape scrolls in the wrong direction. Also, Alpiner is just not as good having to climb *down* the mountain. Be careful 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Ksarul Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 The TI power supply brick outputs AC voltage which is converted to the necessary DC voltages by a power supply board under the slot leading to the cartridge port. You could probably hack a universal DC supply that provides multiple simultaneous voltages to replace both brick and the P/S board, but the on/off switch is on that P/S board. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRetrogamer Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 It needs a proper 99/4A power supply which produces two output voltages. Which country are you in exactly - I don't think you've said? Looking at this image, the PSU provides 3 voltages, (5/8/16v) so a generic selectable, single-voltage PSU is definitely a no go. If the OP *IS* in the UK, they'd be far better looking for one on the popular auction site than importing a Ti-99 unless they're after the later Grey (or are they Beige?) unit which - to the best of my TI knowledge - were never sold in the UK. This was the point of the original question, wasn't it? Asking if NTSC modules work on PAL machines? The answer to this question was a resounding "Yes". To my mind this would mean there's no point in importing, so no saving on postage for a heavy PSU. After being hit by customs and import duties and Parcel Force's frankly ridiculous "admin" fee on a micro itself, it'd probably end up quite expensive to bring one over from the US. If it were me, I'd buy a domestic TI-99 and then import the game modules which aren't commonly available locally. They're cheap enough and globally compatible. [i'm also under the assumption the OP is in the UK] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jens-eike Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 IF you only have two wires from the above plug (red and white only, as with the later switching supply boards) THEN an universal supply as used for modern laptops might work. The two-wire supply works from about 19V DC (or a little less AC, so the standard 16VAC power bricks are ok). If you are in continental Europe, I have spare original power suplies with the appropriate plugs (as used in Austria, Germany or Denmark), too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
am1933 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Also, don't forget that the electrons in the USA and UK power supplies spin in opposite directions. This is a real problem for games like Parsec, because the landscape scrolls in the wrong direction. Also, Alpiner is just not as good having to climb *down* the mountain. Be careful Ahhh-it all makes sense now, this explains why when I play Bigfoot-I have to turn the TV upside down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+acadiel Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Also, don't forget that the electrons in the USA and UK power supplies spin in opposite directions. This is a real problem for games like Parsec, because the landscape scrolls in the wrong direction. Also, Alpiner is just not as good having to climb *down* the mountain. Be careful We always knew you Europeans were unique. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+acadiel Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 IF you only have two wires from the above plug (red and white only, as with the later switching supply boards) THEN an universal supply as used for modern laptops might work. The two-wire supply works from about 19V DC (or a little less AC, so the standard 16VAC power bricks are ok). If you are in continental Europe, I have spare original power suplies with the appropriate plugs (as used in Austria, Germany or Denmark), too. Yep, aren't we dealing with 8 and 16V regulated down to 5 and 12V? Find a regular connector, and you could almost put a small PC PSU on it. Would something like this work plugged right into the motherboard? http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-PINS-HDD-Hard-Drive-Disk-HDD-2A-12V-5V-PSU-Power-Supply-Adapter-for-DOCKING-/170764014823 Edit: Yeah, the above doesn't have a -5V, so apparently the console needs a 10V differential too? Edit 2: Would this one work? http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=196138& Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Yep, aren't we dealing with 8 and 16V regulated down to 5 and 12V? Find a regular connector, and you could almost put a small PC PSU on it. Would something like this work plugged right into the motherboard? http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-PINS-HDD-Hard-Drive-Disk-HDD-2A-12V-5V-PSU-Power-Supply-Adapter-for-DOCKING-/170764014823 Edit: Yeah, the above doesn't have a -5V, so apparently the console needs a 10V differential too? Edit 2: Would this one work? http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=196138& If I remember correctly the -5V is *only* for the VRAMs. If you have an F18A then you don't need that supply rail at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 If I remember correctly the -5V is *only* for the VRAMs. If you have an F18A then you don't need that supply rail at all. The processor needs -5V as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Edit 2: Would this one work? http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&productId=196138& I suspect the "requires 20% loading on all outputs" won't be achieved on the -5V line (unless you add a load resistor). Current draw on the -5V line is only a couple of mA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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