BUYER BEWARE...Shady online Atari dealer (Best Electronics)

[ianoid]

People who have stores (online or other, not including eBay), are often hypersensitive to hagglers. Not that you were haggling, but once someone starts to argue about prices, it can set off the seller. Even if it's the seller's error. And people tend to be somewhat more antagonistic on the internet than they do in person.

 

Let me point out that Best is Brad, and I'd be surprised if he had more than one other person working for him. He is super old school with the store- he's been around a long ass time and I doubt he wants to deal with people messing with him about his prices. He's probably heard it all before and just doesn't want to deal. I've dealt with him a few times and never had a problem. I even went to Best in 1996 when I lived in the Bay Area and bought stuff directly from him. His only employee was an old Asian woman and their business was run entirely on STs.

 

You'd think the market wouldn't be large enough to be detached from market rates and also intolerant to any customer, but apparently he's doing ok enough to stay in business this long. Perhaps he would even rather go down with the ship than cede to the conflict/haters/hagglers.

 

I can say this much, eBay forces me to be reasonable to every customer, with the feedback system and the customer always right approach they have to paypal and account freezes. Not that I have any reason to be a dick, but the system certainly prioritizes it's customers more than old school businesses ever had to. And we reap the benefits of crazy good customer service (mostly) on eBay, Amazon, Zappos, etc when we shop brick and mortar. Few b&m chains will refuse any return for any reason in any condition.

[Andre81]

Had the same experience with B&C. Wanted to place an order and after a few emails I got the invoice and he was asking more than he has the items listed for on eBay.

 

I replied that he can't ask more than on eBay and he also saves the fees, but I never heard anything again from him.

 

Bottom line is these are old guys doing their business their own way and you won't be able to change that. They are handling their business the same way as 20 years ago. Seems they still make enough sales.

[3DOMan]

I didn't think my tone was that aggressive, even though I have every right to take an aggressive tone. If you read my original post I've been a loyal customer for years. To be lied to and overcharged is insulting and disrespectful even before I uttered a single word. I stand my ground.

 

Clearly I'm not the only person who has had a bad taste left in their mouth from this website.

[Bald_Bull_jr]

Prices are way too high, anyhow....who cares....E-Bay...next...

 

 

[VectorGamer]

I've purchased from Best a few times. It has always gone just fine. I usually call instead of ordering on-line, and they are always nice and easy to work with.

 

I didn't know you could order online. I only ever saw a telephone number to phone in your order. I haven't been to site in awhile, can you really order online? Or is "ordering online" sending them an email with a list of products you want? If that's the case, you still have to call to provide them with your cc number...

[20ohm20]

Add me to the list of people that have never had an issue with Best Electronics. There was one time when the price of something had changed vs. what was printed on the website and printed catalog and I just asked to have it removed from my order (this was on a ~$70 order, IIRC). He gave me an updated order total with shipping the following day, I paid, and received the parts three or four days later.

 

The refurbished 800 and 810 I bought from Best a few years ago remain the most trouble free Atari items I own.

[Greg2600]

Never had a problem myself. Games can be found elsewhere yes, but Best has hardware brand new stock that nobody else does.

[Isgoed]

@ 3DOMan

 

Reading through the e-mail conversation that you had, I must say that Best Electronics answered you in a correct way.

 

With rejecting the order, it looks like he decided to keep the honour to himself.

 

This is of course my opinion

[bojay1997]

I didn't think my tone was that aggressive, even though I have every right to take an aggressive tone. If you read my original post I've been a loyal customer for years. To be lied to and overcharged is insulting and disrespectful even before I uttered a single word. I stand my ground.

 

Clearly I'm not the only person who has had a bad taste left in their mouth from this website.

The thing is, you weren't lied to or overcharged. He quoted you a price you didn't like and you got super aggressive and accused him of trying to rip you off. He doesn't have an automated shopping cart system, so you don't even have a firm offer to buy anything until he sends you the quote and directs you to make payment. Frankly, that's the way most older computer dealers servicing the collectors market work. B&C works that way as does Best and a bunch of other companies I have dealt with on TI-99 and PC Jr stuff. A lot of them haven't updated their price lists in years and it would be absurd to take the position that the price list is the absolute for anything. If you don't like the way he treated you, move on because he sure has.

[+thegoldenband]

I didn't think my tone was that aggressive, even though I have every right to take an aggressive tone.

 

I'm not intending to be snarky or unkind in any way with this comment, so please don't take it personally. This is tactical advice, not a judgment on your character.

 

So many of the people I know who repeatedly fail in life -- who are perennially surrounded by drama, and always seem to take one step forward, two steps back -- what you wrote (the part in bold) is exactly the kind of attitude they invariably have. They're fixated on being right and asserting their "rights", and are able to spell out exactly why they're correct and everyone with whom they come into conflict is (legally and/or morally) wrong, so being abrasive and unpleasant is their right because they're Good and the other guy is Bad.

 

But it's amazing what a difference it makes when you stop focusing on what you have the "right" to do, and start focusing on what will enable a positive outcome. Was there a positive outcome in this situation? No, you just ended up pissed off, pissing the other guy off, and with nothing to show for it.

 

It wouldn't have cost you anything to simply write "Hmm, it looks like the price in the invoice doesn't match the one on the page. Could I ask for a clarification?" And further down the road, you could've made a decision about whether or not to pursue the order, at worst saying something like "I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable ordering under the circumstances. Thanks for your time." But right from the beginning, your reply basically makes it sound like you wanted them to come to you, hat in hand, and acknowledge that they were the bad guy -- sneaky, underhanded cheaters trying to rip you off -- and you were the good guy.

 

That's never, ever going to happen, here or in any other context. And trying to make it happen, through force or rhetoric, will only further antagonize people and burn bridges. Why? Because you're basically treating them like a non-person, and backing them into a corner. Doing that to someone is a surefire way to elicit their rage and hatred, and make them look for every opportunity to screw you down the road.

 

As soon as you wrote "Is this a common business practice of yours? Charging more for an item than your list price? Do you often change prices half way through a transaction?", you're basically deliberately antagonizing them. And to what end? Who among us doesn't instinctively want to say "#$%#$%# you!!!" -- or worse -- when asked those kinds of insulting non-questions? What will making Best angry accomplish, unless the point is to get them to openly behave badly so that you can say "See, I'm the good guy and you're the bad guy!"

 

And trying to browbeat them into honoring the listed price was another mistake, IMHO, and makes you look entitled and/or sketchy. Again, at worst, you say something like "If you're able to honor the posted price, I'd be glad to buy those items, but otherwise let's drop them from my order and move on." I don't think you've really proven that they were doing anything underhanded; I think it's far more likely that the story they told is exactly true -- they went "Oh shit, that's wrong, and I meant to raise the price on these". And until they've taken your money, they have every right to do that, and the fact that they updated the website to reflect the price change speaks well of them (as opposed to Collectors Cards & Games, who knowingly list items they don't have).

 

BTW I have no attachment whatsoever to Best; I've never dealt with them, and given their sub-Geocities-quality website, have no plans to do so. But it's just frustrating to me to see people deliberately escalate a situation, and seemingly not even realize that they're doing it, when it's so easy to take the high road and not give in to feelings of rage and persecution that lead absolutely nowhere. The only people who benefit from this behavior are lawyers -- especially divorce lawyers!

[Trebor]

Having purchased a Composite mod Atari 7800 system and CPS Diagnostic cart from Best, I had nothing but a smooth and pleasant experience. Items were packaged and shipped like they were from Fort Knox and the console was in like-new condition, brand-new face plate too!

 

Sure their website is beyond outdated, but I rather have (like) new/excellent merchandise than a fancy website with okay condition merchandise. Best Electronics was both friendly and helpful to deal with and from my personal experience, recommend them for both positive buying experiences and excellent products.

[+Gemintronic]

I say they should play up the element of danger! Which customer service style will you encounter? Will it be the Rouge Prince of Price Changing or the Paladin of Promptness? Best Electronics: Our web page can be dark and scary.. but you'll shriek with delight!!!!

[Bryan]

Another similar thread:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/213582-best-electronics-problem-with-ordering/

 

Brad is touchy. I've ordered a lot from him over the years, but I also sensed at times my questions were aggravating him. I guess he makes enough as it is so he's content to turn business away. The only thing that makes me sympathetic is that I've met some crazy (or barely functional) people in the computer-hobby-world who would probably speed-dial, place fantasy orders, and try to be bff's with every retailer they could find. I have one person in mind who practically camped at the local Atari store and drove off business by constantly trying to engage other patrons in Atari love chat. Perhaps such a customer made Brad snap at some point.

 

EDIT: Also, I'm most certain he's BS-ing you with his talk of various 'departments.'

 

-Bry

[SuperDork3000]

Brad from BE sounds like a tool and nobody should have to deal with a lying grumpy old salesman. The "Warehouse" is most likely a big shed behind his trailer......and the "Best Web Master" guy should be fired for not doing his job since 1995.

 

I would never deal with anyone that acted like that.

[atari2atari]

Ah, it must be time for our yearly "I had an experience with BEST ELECTRONICS" thread.

 

Sorry to hear you had a negative experience, 3DOMan.

 

I will just add myself to the list of people who have had nothing but positive experiences for years.

 

I just placed yet another order yesterday, actually.

 

Yes, he is curt, to the point, and arbitrary. That's his right, however, much as it is yours to choose not to do business with him. Most of us figure out fairly fast when ordering from him for the first time that he has a certain way he likes to do business, and that he is a certain type of personality. We then make the decision to either deal with it. Or not.

 

Looks like you chose "not" by starting an argument with him. I think that if you would still like to do business with him, you could simply apologize and say something along the lines of "I think we got off on the wrong foot, I'm sorry..." Or, not. Your choice.

 

"Best" of luck with whatever you decide!

 

 

On another topic, but still related - - I am happy to see that he still talks about himself in the third person, or at least that's what I deeply suspect. There are always references to the Warehouse Manager (underlined below), Accounting, the Shipping Department, and so on, but I always thought it was just him. Maybe there are all of these other people, but they usually only come up when there is an issue with the customer, and so I always thought it was a convenient way to have "someone else" be the one saying "no," giving news of a delay, or requesting something additional from the customer.

 

Personally, I would do the same after 30+ years of random individuals emailing, calling, and sending letters requesting odds and ends - - and then those individuals maybe yelling at you for one reason or another!

 

Best Electronics - Bradley Koda

4:33 PM (2 hours ago)

to me

Thank you for your E-Mail dated 05-13-14.

Q. Hello? Are you going to respond to my e-mails?

A. took a copy of your last E-Mails to our Atari Warehouse manager. He looked it over and our responses back to you. He said he will pass / decline your Atari order.

He said he is sure you can find all of the Atari items on your list on the Internet no problem.

Regards
Bradley Koda

 

 

EDIT:

 

Attached is one of my favorite articles about BEST ELECTRONICS, an interview with Brad from 2007. Seems like a great guy, an enthusiast, just like all of us . . .

 

Linked from here: http://www.bertelmann.org/atari-archive/be_en.htm

 

BEST ELECTRONICS 2007 Interview - www.bertelmann.org.pdf

 

But, PDF is attached because, well, the Internet. It changes.

 

-a2a

Edited May 15, 2014 by atari2atari

[3DOMan]

I certainly can appreciate the mixed opinions in this thread. I find it most amusing that some people are trying to rationalize his poor business decisions. It's plain as day that he was changing prices on the fly and I called bullshit. Some of you people act like I should have just rolled over and just paid whatever he wanted. Some of you even act like I should apologize when clearly I did nothing wrong here. No sorry, that doesn't wash with me.

 

Those of you who actually read my original thread can see that I quoted prices FROM HIS OWN PRICE LIST and he still didn't honor them. Rather than try and make amends to the mistake (and MISTAKE is putting it nicely, I didn't use words like RIPOFF or SCAM or GOUGE in my e-mails) in the spirit of customer service, he sneakily goes back and changes the price and acts like nothing happened, and ignores me all together. Great customer service! I don't feel the need to justify my position any further. Those of you who are confused should read my original post again, because it's quite obvious who is right and who is wrong here.

 

Clearly I can see with some of the feedback in this thread that he's lost quite a few customers due to his seedy business practice. I'd be surprised if his store was doing anything besides circling the drain

[chuckwalla]

My two cents worth is that I've been a steady customer of BE for about 15 years buying hardware and software and never had a problem (I love the boxes with the Atari insignia they use to ship orders in).

[high voltage]

During the 90s I still send cash ($) with my order. Received my order in quick time from US to UK.

Met Bradley in 1994 at the Atari Show in London at the Novotel. Purchased stuff from him, and he was friendly.

[+thegoldenband]

3DOMan, you seem to be ignoring the possibility that both of you are wrong, and that both of you behaved badly. So, to be crystal-clear:

 

I think Best should've honored the listed price when the issue first came up, especially on an order that big. It'd be the honorable thing to do, since it was their mistake, and it makes good sense not to lose $400 worth of business. (I don't think this is a fraudulent bait-and-switch tactic, but a genuine error on their part; at less than 5% of the total, the numbers are too small for it to make sense.)

 

Best also should've written a note upfront saying "I apologize -- I checked, and the prices on these items were incorrect. Do you still want them?" That would be the right thing to do, and changing the prices in the invoice with only minimal, opaque commentary is surely a bad move.

 

But when you wrote "Is this a common business practice of yours? Charging more for an item than your list price? Do you often change prices half way through a transaction?", you screwed up IMHO. That is an accusation of fraud/dishonesty, whether or not you use the word, so don't claim otherwise -- you know perfectly well what you meant to communicate to him. It's unnecessary and argumentative -- the written equivalent of getting up in someone's face -- and it's the wrong thing to do even if the other guy screwed up too.

 

I understand that you were irritated, and you may think that means you're entitled to be as abrasive as you want, to put the guy in his place. But he also has the right to refuse to do business with someone who's basically accusing him of fraud. That's why he ignored your emails: he didn't want your business anymore, and didn't want to deal with you. And that's his prerogative!

 

Taking the high road -- meaning, treating people with civility and respect no matter what -- is always the wise choice. Choose not to do that, and you'll wind up with high blood pressure, enemies, and little else. After all, no one in the world will ever give a shit whether you're "right"; they care about how you treat them, and whether you act with grace and dignity even when you're not getting your way.

[+Gemintronic]

I think everybody is right. There's been quite a mix of good, bad and awkward sales with this guy.

 

It's time to stop thinking about him as any other storefront. He is the guy you turn to when no one else has the goods. You suck it up accordingly.

 

I guess the way things are suits him just fine even though it costs him sales over time.

[AtariLeaf]

I know he can be a little ornery but that's the price of doing business. This one time I ordered a medium turkey chili and it didn't come with the bread like it was supposed to. . . oh wait that was another guy.

[atari2atari]

I know he can be a little ornery but that's the price of doing business. This one time I ordered a medium turkey chili and it didn't come with the bread like it was supposed to. . . oh wait that was another guy.

 

NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

 

 

Edited May 15, 2014 by atari2atari

[toiletunes]

I notice in the Best reply that the items in question do have a kind of footnote:

 

"1 Loose Ballblazer U$D 15.95 (down to the last few of them)
1 Loose Donkey Kong U$D 20.00 (Non XE case version U$D 8.95)"

 

I took this as an explanation as to why the prices were different.

[3DOMan]

What it should say is that he did a price check on ebay and decided he could get more for the games.

 

Instead, we get this line of crap which only an idiot would fall for.

[bojay1997]

What it should say is that he did a price check on ebay and decided he could get more for the games.

 

Instead, we get this line of crap which only an idiot would fall for.

I strongly doubt that's what happened. Brad posts almost daily Ebay auction results on his website to prove that his prices for often better quality items are much lower than Ebay. He provided you with an explanation for why the prices were higher and he never charged you for anything. Since you posted earlier that you can get the same items cheaper elsewhere, why are you expending so much energy and time arguing when many of us have pointed out that you are at least partially at fault for this entire dispute? Buy them from this alleged cheaper other source and let this thread just die. I suspect like most blowhards, you have no such secondary source and you secretly enjoy all the drama you regularly cause or escalate.