Atari-Collector Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I'm about to start work on building a SIO2PC board from scratch. and lacking a SIO cable to cannibalize or the connector, I figure I'll install the board right in the 600XL case even though it means cutting a hole for the DB9 serial connector (cringe) My question is, are that any drawback to doing this? like interfering with normal real floppy use. I figure just turn the floppy off when i use the SIO and the exit SIO software when use the floppy. is it possible to use both? so i copy copy atr disk images to real floppies? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 You should have no trouble using both devices at the same time, providing the floppy drive does not have the same drive ID as any of the mounted ATRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hello Atari-Collector Why use an DB9/RS232 connector? USB-connectors are a lot smaller and most modern computers no longer have RS232 ports. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 If I was you I would build in the Sio2PC not in the Atari, but in the disk drive. More space, and you can also use the Sio2PC with another Atari then if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 If you can find an SIO connector to sacrifice, this solution uses USB and requires no nasty DB9s on any of your equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hello Jon It shouldn't be to hard to build that PCB into a computer, drive, 1050 or whatever. No need to sacrifice a SIO connector. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari-Collector Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 I have an XF551 drive, so yes I could put it in there use as easily. I prefer serial ports to USB. my PC has 3 serial ports, two in use by my ham radio, leaving one free. And it's fairly common that high RF from transmitting will temporally knock out a USB port. I've tried USB to serial adapters in the past, that is why I spend the money to had the extra real serial ports to my computer... At this point I've solder all the capacitors and socket to the project board, just got to add the DB9 and the wiring for the SIO side. And I'll debate putting the device in the 600XL or the XF551, In the 600XL I don't have to have the really floppy attached all, so that would be a plus I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) It shouldn't be to hard to build that PCB into a computer, drive, 1050 or whatever. No need to sacrifice a SIO connector. I'm not saying it's harder or easier to put the device into a computer or disk drive. The point is that placing the device inside an SIO connector means zero alteration to the hardware (which, let's face it, some people find objectionable). The case of one's A8 is rather a bigger sacrifice than an SIO connector, which can at least then be plugged into any machine you choose. There is then no debate about where to fit the interface. Edited May 25, 2014 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari-Collector Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 I'm not saying it's harder or easier to put the device into a computer or disk drive. The point is that placing the device inside an SIO connector means zero alteration to the hardware (which, let's face it, some people find objectionable). The case of one's A8 is rather a bigger sacrifice than an SIO connector, which can at least then be plugged into any machine you choose. There is then no debate about where to fit the interface. I agree. I don't really want to cut a hole in the 600XL's case, but to get a SIO connect I'd have to buy a full cable on ebay and use it.. and that's about $25 by the time you get shipping to Canada on that.. And I've already pushed my budget pretty far on this.. what I was thinking is just run the serial cable out the expansion slot (or maybe a vent hole) and put a hood on it. Then when I can find a SIO cable at a more reasonable price, remove it from the computer and make it external. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox-1 / mnx Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Carefully make a cut in about the middle (*) of the SIO cable. Just the outer isolation so you can see the wires. Check which 4 wires you need by opening 1 of the SIO connectors and take the signals you need from there. Can be done without having to cut a single wire. Use a small project box to mount the RS232 connector and just guide the whole SIO cable thru it. It may be useful to mount a switch to disable the SIO2PC interface while you're at it. (*) About the middle, because then you can place the interface closer or further away from the Atari by just reversing the SIO cable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dripfree Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 This was my solution when I trying to do the same thing as you. http://atariage.com/forums/topic/212935-belkin-sio2pc-rs232-usb-data-switch/. I decided that I would have to house it in something else and cannibalize a sio cable from a 410. When it came time to start cutting I just couldn't do that to my 800xl. If you are using the 14c89 chip it is very easy to convert rs232 to usb. I cannibalized an adapter cable I got from ebay for a buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari-Collector Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 Carefully make a cut in about the middle (*) of the SIO cable. Just the outer isolation so you can see the wires. Check which 4 wires you need by opening 1 of the SIO connectors and take the signals you need from there. Can be done without having to cut a single wire. Use a small project box to mount the RS232 connector and just guide the whole SIO cable thru it. It may be useful to mount a switch to disable the SIO2PC interface while you're at it. (*) About the middle, because then you can place the interface closer or further away from the Atari by just reversing the SIO cable. I like that idea! I have the interface soldered to the inside of the 600xl's connector right now. but there really isn't enough room to mount it in the case. I guess an 800xl would have had more room.. But I know it works now, although a experienced some glitch, it work better using DSR instead of RI (I put a 3 pin header on the board and a jumper to switch between the two) and I also notics some times there at pauses of several seconds during loading. and I also discovered I can't copy a disk (atr) image to a real flooy on mt xf551 using the DOS disk dupe.. But I seen another interface/software the allows a PC to connect to a floppy drive with not actual Atari computer for writing disks.. so i guess thats my next project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Fox-1 solution is very good. I did that in the past too (in the time I was using Sio2PC interfaces) with a cigar box. I'm not sure btw. whether it is in the (original) design or not, but do not forget to place the diode (IIRC on the SIO DATA OUT in stead of a wire). In case of combining real sio hardware and sio2pc (and you want to daisy chain, which you are doing anyway if you built it inside a disk drive). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari-Collector Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 Yes, I did put a diode (1n4148) in the interface, I just finished putting the 600xl back together after removing the interface to be located externally.. I also fixed the power LED that wasn't coming on, and added the AV line output mod to it too. So tomorrow I'll get at modding the SIO cable btw the power LED just needed pulling out of it's socket, some contact cleaner, a slight twist to the pin to increase tension and put it back in I left the original 5mm LED. Back in my 800 days.. I switched it's power LEDs to green.. so somewhere out there is an tank case 800 with green power likes on it and it's 810 drive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Fox-1 solution is very good. I did that in the past too (in the time I was using Sio2PC interfaces) with a cigar box. I'm not sure btw. whether it is in the (original) design or not, but do not forget to place the diode (IIRC on the SIO DATA OUT in stead of a wire). In case of combining real sio hardware and sio2pc (and you want to daisy chain, which you are doing anyway if you built it inside a disk drive). That's on the SIO data-in by the way (SIO3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Ah... it was a long time ago. I really thought that I put it on SIO5 (data Out) long ago... but when I look on the Sio2SD info, indeed there is a Diode between the DATA in and the Atmel. I also see they used some kind of pull up resistor. Perhaps that depends on the kind of diode. Perhaps a BAT85 does not need that pull up resistor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Ah... it was a long time ago. I really thought that I put it on SIO5 (data Out) long ago... but when I look on the Sio2SD info, indeed there is a Diode between the DATA in and the Atmel. I also see they used some kind of pull up resistor. Perhaps that depends on the kind of diode. Perhaps a BAT85 does not need that pull up resistor? The diode is to emulate an open collector output, the output (TXD) from the PC must be an open circuit (should not source current), so by inserting a diode in between the RXD of Atari (SIO3) and the TXD of the PC, you prevent the transmit pin of the PC to source current to the circuit, this is required when the SIO2PC connected peripheral emulator needs to coexist with real disk drives in the SIO chain. The pullup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricortes Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Ah... it was a long time ago. I really thought that I put it on SIO5 (data Out) long ago... but when I look on the Sio2SD info, indeed there is a Diode between the DATA in and the Atmel. I also see they used some kind of pull up resistor. Perhaps that depends on the kind of diode. Perhaps a BAT85 does not need that pull up resistor? The pull up resistor is not needed/isn't used in SIO2SD AFAIK and shouldn't be needed in SIO2PC. There was at least one connection on the original 1489 version that was unnecessary, was corrected, but all the 'improved designs' continued with that mistake => most of the people that changed the original design were well intentioned but didn't really have a clue. The added pull up resistor doesn't hurt anything and may actually help if you have a burned out POKEY, but shouldn't be needed for a healthy system. Academic on a couple of levels since USB is the current way to go for SIO and everyone that can afford it prefers the faster parallel I/O to anything serial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atari8warez Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Academic on a couple of levels since USB is the current way to go for SIO and everyone that can afford it prefers the faster parallel I/O to anything serial. Maybe I am an exception but I find myself using SIO way more frequently than PIA and I own an IDEPlus 2. Part of the reason is of course AspeQt development but SIO also has a "nostalgic" side I cherish... and you're right there is no need for the pull-up resistor in the SIO2PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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