JagChris Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Well, the one I fixed up wasn't finished. If that was the latest version built then I'm going with incomplete. The demo cycles through the entire game. What part isn't finished? Didn't Gunstar figure out how to play through the whole thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The entire missing two player mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 The entire missing two player mode? ok fair enough. But it was Core's game. And it got canceled due to well we all know. You can play through the heart of the whole game. So almost all the gamelplay is there sans 2-player mode. It's not like they were contracted to do something and then half assed it. They at least finished the entire heart of the game on a system they were taking a chance on with resources and manpower. And never got recouped their loss I am guessing. This is IMO not the same thing as Rebellion, who ironically now own Core. How in the hell can such a shitty company own such an awesome one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Ok so going with the 'logic' here that by going back in time, Atari don't hire Rebellion and thus have no C.F 2 to blot the Jaguar landscape, your left with the following scenario....your stuck looking for someone else to produce a flagship AVP game, yet you've still the same budget you gave Rebellion, plus you've no Legions Of The Undead or Hammerhead aka Sky Hammer to promote via the press as upcoming flagship Jaguar games/long term prospects for potential Jaguar owners to see and go, i want that!. Whilst your back in time, you'd better cancel ATD's contract, as Blue Lightning CD was bloody awful, Jeff Minter can have his P45 as well, as despite being a huge Defender fan, he'd screwed up every previous attempt at a decent clone on the Atari Micro's etc (sorry Jeff, but i feel you had) instead let Protector be your Defender update. Might as well cancel your Battlezone 2000 update on cart aka Hoverstrike and just push forward with CD version and so on and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 :-) This 'Awesome' company, Core Design, this the same Core Design i remember producing such greats as:TR:Angel Of Darkness, Fighting Force 1+2, Shellshock, Incredible Hulk:The Pantheon Saga, Saint And Greavsie and screwed up the fantastic Monty Mole series with Impossamole, by trying to turn it into a console-esq game?. Chris every top developer i can think of has hit production issues, produced some real stinkers over the years, it happens.Naughty Dog started out with what? 3DO Way Of The Warrior? now look at them..but i personally found the critically acclaimed The Last Of us, to be vastly over-rated. As for Atari approaching Psygnosis, as i've stated on here before, they did..Psygnosis looked at the hardware and thought it was either an over-priced cartridge machine or under-powered CD machine and were not impressed, but then, they'd already seen very early demo.of the Playstation behind closed doors, so knew which horse to back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 http://www.edge-online.com/features/making-alien-vs-predator/ Initially, however-“They wanted a scrolling fighter like Double Dragon,” explains Kingsley. “But after some time we managed to convince them we could do a fully texture-mapped, 16bit, photographic-quality firstperson shooter in 2.5D, sort of raytraced, but with the walls staying vertical.” “Nobody had ever built this sort of title before. There were no control standards, no assumed knowledge, the Jaguar was an unknown quantity, the team size was only six people, our staff were inexperienced and we were inexperienced.” At least Rebellion have been brutally honest about fact they were a small, very inexperienced team, faced with a most daunting task, so is it really any wonder they needed help finishing the game?.Hell IF Atari had been given their way and we had yet another 2D AVP game..i know myself and a lot of other people would'nt have bought a Jaguar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Core design still had enough solid titles under their belt to be considered impressive compared to Rebellion. Even today just going by the hits they had back then. They still top Rebellion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I'm not doubting Core's reputation, bought so many of their games, but..they were just as prone to 'dropping the ball' on original games (i bought Shellshock and Fighting Force, god they were awful), let alone supposed flagship franchises like Tomb Raider on newer hardware (Angel Of Darkness on PS2, which was also planned for PC at 1 stage). And i love it how Ex-ATD staff, still, to this day seem to get off untouched at interview (twice in Edge, once on RVG etc) over WTF happened with Blue Lightning CD, no-one ever seemed to ask A)WTF happened, B)Why inital shots looked a damn sight better than what we actually got and C)Why they never even seem to mention it in list of past projects. And also just what degree of bug testing went on regarding the Jaguar chipset. I have put the questions to certain Ex-ATD person, but just got response that it was far too long ago to remember (which is fair point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Jeff Minter can have his P45 as well, as despite being a huge Defender fan, he'd screwed up every previous attempt at a decent clone on the Atari Micro's etc (sorry Jeff, but i feel you had) instead let Protector be your Defender update.Yeah, let's fire the guy who's responsible for Tempest 2000, a game that's widely regarded as one of the best releases on the Jaguar. Great idea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 For better or worse, Rebellion completed their projects (AvP / Checkered flag) Core didn't (Soulstar) In the respect scale: Finishing something and releasing it > not finishing something and talking about it. (Hows vrBasic coming along, btw......) Well, it could of[sic] been better if someone would of[sic] put more time into it, but they didn't seem to spend the time that they should of[sic] since they were too busy posting FPS numbers via emulators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Well, it could of[sic] been better if someone would of[sic] put more time into it, but they didn't seem to spend the time that they should of[sic] since they were too busy posting FPS numbers via emulators. Wow. Why do you guys keep bringing that up? I do believe he was proven more or less correct in how much the speed up ratio was compared to what his detractors said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Wow. Why do you guys keep bringing that up? I do believe he was proven more or less correct in how much the speed up ratio was compared to what his detractors said. Shame he's never finished anything to prove it, though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 :-) @Zerosquare:The 'better fire Minter' comment (for Defender 2000) was just a a light-hearted one, basically i was saying if your not going to hire Rebellion, based on 1 poor game, amongst those that actually did showcase the power of the Jaguar (AVP and Skyhammer), because it got poor reviews, you'd better not hire a lot of other Jaguar developers either, ATD, Imagitec etc etc. I just found it curious Rebellion were being singled out for producing poor Jaguar software, whilst others who ported over SNES/Amiga code, did'nt finish a lot of titles and like Rebellion produced a title bearing the franchise name of a quality Lynx product that was a massive let down.Blue Lighting to myself just the worst thing to put on Jag CD, after ALL Atari UK had been telling the press about just wait till the CD games arrived, then you'd see true power of the Jaguar etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Oh, OK. I didn't understand it like that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) my least favorite developers by far were imagitec. Of their games: I did not like the art style of evolution dino dudes, as the whole production seemed like a bloated scene demo. The game is based on an established series of games (humans), you'd think they'd refine it but instead they just used it to show how many colors the Jaguar could display and prove that you can drop some grainy photos into games as backdrops. It would've been interesting to have seen CGI graphics and some dialog like lost vikings. Pitfall and Raiden were most likely phone in jobs that they did for other companies and probably followed specification. I really liked bubsy back in the day, used to play it on my friends genesis. Regardless of what you make of those games, Bubsy on Jaguar is absolute garbage in comparison. IWAR showed the company learned a bit about the Jaguar with 4 games under their belt, but the gameplay is generic and repetitive and the environments are bland... imo the third time Imagitec was given some creative freedom and squandered it on a game with no personality. Imagitec was presumably among the cheapest companies Atari contracted, but aside from some decent music (they even provided the soundtrack for Defender 2000), Atari probably could've done better with a more ambitious company that maybe cost a little more to work with. Edited December 31, 2014 by Willard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 @Zerosquare:Sorry for the inital confusion, i lack many arts, 1 of which is getting across in a post when i'm not being deadly serious, but yep, point i was trying to make was basically Rebellion were just one of many Jaguar developers with a mixed record, output wise, so don't hire 1 on those grounds, don't hire the others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 As for imagitec....hmnnn.....a developer i've always thought had the potential to do a lot more than what we actually saw from them.Whilst i cannot fault the steriling work they did on audio for Tempest 2K and Defender 2K on Jaguar, i'd of 'needed' to of seen Space Junk finished (and i'd still love to know just how far along coding had got on Falcon and MCD versions, let alone Jag CD version) and Freelancer on Jag CD (ditto in terms of how far coding got on either Jag or PS1 versions), to really 'judge' them as a developer, as there was rich potential in both games. I'd hoped the RG article on the company back along (when i was a subscriber) could of shed some fresh insights into 1 or both titles, but no idea what questions were asked regarding these 2 or what information given, so game away none the wiser. My hope is video of Freelancer will still exist somewhere, let alone code.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I wish Imagitec had brought Quarantine to Jaguar CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoGeoNinja Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 :-) This 'Awesome' company, Core Design, this the same Core Design i remember producing such greats as:TR:Angel Of Darkness, Fighting Force 1+2, Shellshock, Incredible Hulk:The Pantheon Saga, Saint And Greavsie and screwed up the fantastic Monty Mole series with Impossamole, by trying to turn it into a console-esq game?. The Pantheon Saga? Hmmm... don't remember that being anything to do with Core Design...? It was total dogshit, but not of Core's doing, IIRC. Personally, I don't fall in with the criticism here levied towards Fighting Force 1 & 2 or Shellshock. Fighting Force 1 was a decent attempt at a 3D Scrolling beat em up, of which, not many of those existed in the 32-bit era. Fighting Force 2 was 'disappointing' when compared to what FF1 had done, however, in it's OWN right, it wasn't bad. It wasn't amazing... but it certainly wasn't bad. TR:AoD is indefensibly over ambitious and an obvious clanger, which Core would probably never deny. Handing TR over to CD was the best thing to ever happen to Lara since the PS1 era. Couldn't comment on S&Greavsie or Monty Mole, as they sound like 8-bit or 16-bit home computer (i.e. Amiga or ST) titles, of which, I've never heard of or played either. Always been, predominantly, a console gamer Chris every top developer i can think of has hit production issues, produced some real stinkers over the years, it happens.Naughty Dog started out with what? 3DO Way Of The Warrior? now look at them... True. I couldn't disagree tbh. However, if you look through Rebellion's resume, aside the AvP series, of which "fell off" after the Jag & PC releases, Rebellion have really done NOTHING noteworthy outside of their Sniper Elite series. Which are actually pretty good. What Chris said about Rebellion being 'lucky' isn't that far off the mark vs Core ACTUALLY being a talented developer. They're not comparable I'm afraid. At least, not imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Before i answer the superb points above: Disclaimer:I'm an Aliens and Predator geek. Bought all the games over the years, comic books, models etc etc, films on VHS, UMD, DVD etc. Actually i'm bloody glad source material often is'nt followed as i loved both the MD and SNES versions of Alien 3, which had so little to do with the film it was unreal, but both cracking games and both i 'dip into' these days just for a run n gun... So i'm of the view as long as an Aliens game 'delivers' it honestly does'nt matter if developers are familar with the source material to that degree.I found Alien Trilogy on PS1 very dissapointing as whilst Xenso ran around, rather than straight at you, they acted like sheep, rather than killing machines. As for the comics..bloody hell...Aliens Vs Batman, Green Lantern etc NO!!! Aliens Vs Preadtor Vs The Terminator...NO! Predator Vs Tarzan at the Earths Core...(seriousily) WTF?.Preadator Vs Judge Dredd and so on and so on.... It just got absurd very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Ohh god no, Shellshock..ohhh just wretched.I cannot recal if i bought that on strength of a mag review (as i tended to do back then) or Cores reputation, but lordy no.... Ditto Fighting Force, i'd so hoped for a homage to Streets Of Rage/Final Fight/Double Dragon etc, but in 3D...just noooo...very, very dissapointing. Up until C.D took over Topmb Raider-Never been a fan, found the controls frustrating to the point of wondering if games had been play tested on PS1.Was given DC version of a Tomb Raider game when i imported a DC game, years back, looked alright, but played like a dog.When i was given a PS2 and 60 games by my mate when he left for Spain, Tomb Raider Legend (i think) was in there, played better, but i still was'nt convinced.Did love the last TR on 360 though, which surprised me as i expected to come away non-plussed. Monty On The Run was the pinnicle for myself, but Impossamole, yeah lets try and capture what consoles are doing.Bit of a mistake i felt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 The Pantheon Saga? my bad, published by Eidos (which might have been why i assumed Core, probably just age on my part :-) ) but was done by our friends at ATD it seems...need i say more? Sniper Elite-Cannot comment on, was given a copy on Xbox, years ago, far too hardcore for my tastes, but by god did Rebellion screw up AVP on PSP, AVP on PS3/360 and PC and Judge Dredd VS Death-title which had SO much potential, yet they delivered in spades with Rogue Trooper (huge fan of the 2000AD strip).So, like Imagitec, they seem a company who are capable of delivering far better goods overal than they actually put out. When Rebellion get it right, it's fantastic, when they seem not overly bothered, i'm left thinking WTF is this shit?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Please excuse thread bump/Necropost, but after years of just having a static screenshot,here is what's believed to be actual PlayStation one footage of AVP: Skip to 2:05 on the counter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agradeneu Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Lost Dragon said: Please excuse thread bump/Necropost, but after years of just having a static screenshot,here is what's believed to be actual PlayStation one footage of AVP: Skip to 2:05 on the counter Looks like an early "Quake" port/version to me. Edit: Ok, found it Nice find! Edited March 9, 2020 by agradeneu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, agradeneu said: Looks like an early "Quake" port/version to me. Edit: Ok, found it Nice find! Where in the video, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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