Jump to content
Stevaside

Tandy Color Computer 3- Couple questions

Recommended Posts

Just got my 1st group of games off a fellow member recently, should be buying my 1st Coco3 in over 25 years soon....Have really been getting into the thought of doing some more collecting for it....really enjoying learning more about the system, games & doing research (with the little amount there seems to be), but theres still a couple questions I have that I've been having a hard time finding online....

 

I want to eventually get a floppy disk drive for it...especially since to my suprise I learned a Kings Quest & Leisure Suit Larry port was availiable for it, among a few other interesting games....but is there in anyway a save capability?? even with a hard drive or maybe modern made SD/USB compatible device ? I just cannot see playing those Sierra titles without being able to save lol..

 

 

And finally, I am counting on the AV out display to be acceptable on my flatscreen TV (I HOPE!!)....but is there another option?? I know there is some kind of RGB out that supposedly provided better resolution with a monitor....Any RGB to HDMI converter/upscaler out there worthwile to give a better picture compared to the A/V? Forgive my ignorance if not or if that wouldn't be possible, not familiar with that format

 

Thanks in advance,

Steve

Edited by Stevaside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to look at the SuperIDE from Cloud 9. It's a CF-card and IDE controller for the Coco series. They also do a 512K RAM upgrade for the Coco3. You'd need the 512K RAM if you wanted to play Socky's excellent arcade conversion of Donkey Kong but IMHO, this alone is worth the extra $50 for the upgrade. http://www.frontiernet.net/~mmarlette/Cloud-9/Hardware/SuperIDE.html

 

A word of warning: I WOULDN'T touch the "other" MicroSD-based solid-state device currently being advertised.

 

I'm not even going to name it here but if you look at my next link, you'll see the seller advertised this product, sat on the pile of donated cash for months, then took the money and disappeared. I ordered one of these "others" in 2010 and the original seller has since "sold" his business and all his debts to another guy who has become just as elusive. I've resigned myself to the fact I fed him $99 for a couple of pieces of vapourware.

 

The devices are still being advertised but showing as out of stock (no surprise there) but I genuinely wouldn't touch these devices (or the makers) with YOUR 10-foot stick, let alone one of my own!

 

To see what I mean, read "A Cautionary Tale for the Tandy CoCo Community":

http://www.bytecellar.com/2012/01/10/a-cautionary-tale-for-the-tandy-coco-community/

 

As far as monitor support is concerned, You could look for an original Tandy/Radio Shack CM-8 but there can't be too many left. The RGB socket is under the Coco 3. I have an S-Video interface for mine but I'm looking to make up a lead to convert from the Coco's pins to a SCART connector, more common in the UK. If you come across a source of RGB cables, let me know as I'd like one myself. the 80 column mode used in NitrOS-9 doesn't look too clear from the regular composite-out!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can joint the coco mailing list and ask about getting a RGB to VGA adapter. Roy Justus makes them. I am not sure of the price or availability at the moment.

http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/coco

I don't think the coco 3 rgb signal is standard. I wired one up to my Atari SC1224 in the past and the viewable area was about two thirds off screen to the left.

 

To play the sierra games (saving is no problem :thumbsup: ) 1st you will need a DW rom in a disk controller or rompak. 2nd a DW cable from the coco to a PC. These days a serial to USB adapter goes along with that. 3rd you need the games themselves.

 

1st , the ROM, you need a FD-502 disk controller, because it has the easy to use 28 pin rom socket. The FD-501 and others have a 24 pin.

Or, you can take a Super Pitfall! Or Football II cart, remove the chip and put a socket in. This is probably the easiest way.

If you did have a disk system, regardless of controller, you could load the DW rom from a floppy.

You could also use cassette loading, but it takes FOREVER.

ROMs / audio files for tape loading:http://www.frontiernet.net/~mmarlette/Cloud-9/Software/drivewire.zip

(from http://www.cloud9tech.com/)

 

The DW software:

https://sites.google.com/site/drivewire4/

 

The games:

http://www.nitros9.org/latest/

 

Edit: forgot the big huge 4th point. These Sierra games require 512K. An upgrade for that is found at cloud-9 (link above)

Edited by Official Ninja

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are monitor cables available on Cloud-9, which I talk about here: http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/5699

 

I recommend you have both RGB and composite hooked up at the same time so you can switch between the two. The former for crisp text and CoCo 3 stuff, and the latter for artifact colors for the legacy software (otherwise it will be in black and white or with the wrong colors on RGB).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everybody

 

 

Yea, I ran across that discussion a long time ago & would never trust dealing with crooks like that...that's such a shame....

 

I don't want to get another monitor or TV though, my goal is to play the Coco3 on my HDTV like the rest of my old systems. & I'm afraid the RGB to VGA wont be an option for me, cuz unfortunately the VGA input on my TV cant even handle my Dreamcast's resolution..I had to get a seperate VGA to HMDI upscaler as well, which luckily worked out fine.....I suppose maybe I could do the RGB -> VGA -> HDMI using the same upscaler??? I would really like to find another way cuz I would like to not have to disconnect/ reconnect any of my systems, just have them all hooked up & ready to go whenever I feel like playing

 

 

Official Ninja.

 

Sorry but Im a little confused as to what the disk controller is....I had a Coco3 for a brief time as a child but used cartridges only...and the 1st family PC we had was in the early-mid 90s & the CD-Rom drive was all that was really used...My knowledge of any computer technology prior to that is pretty limited lol..What if I wanted to buy the Coco Disk Drive & the actual Kings Quest & Leisure Suit Larry discs?? How would I go about saving then ?? The Super IDE is sold out too it seems....I watched a YT vid from Atari Leaf on the Drivewire, so I get what you're saying about that pretty much, but I dont have a computer with a serial port nor would I really want to have to get one & set it up just for the Coco...is there a serial -> USB adpater or other way??

 

Id rather buy the actual games if possible & build a little collection...but being a good portion of the library seems close to impossible to ever track down, guess I wouldnt mind playing the rarer roms on my system with such devices...

Edited by Stevaside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Official Ninja.

 

Sorry but Im a little confused as to what the disk controller is....I had a Coco3 for a brief time as a child but used cartridges only...and the 1st family PC we had was in the early-mid 90s & the CD-Rom drive was all that was really used...My knowledge of any computer technology prior to that is pretty limited lol..What if I wanted to buy the Coco Disk Drive & the actual Kings Quest & Leisure Suit Larry discs?? How would I go about saving then ?? The Super IDE is sold out too it seems....I watched a YT vid from Atari Leaf on the Drivewire, so I get what you're saying about that pretty much, but I dont have a computer with a serial port nor would I really want to have to get one & set it up just for the Coco...is there a serial -> USB adpater or other way??

 

Id rather buy the actual games if possible & build a little collection...but being a good portion of the library seems close to impossible to ever track down, guess I wouldnt mind playing the rarer roms on my system with such devices...

 

The only Sierra games officially released for the CoCo3 is King's Quest 3 and Leisure Suit Larry.

All the others were done by a fan in the coco community. Playing them via Drive Wire is the BEST way, as its pretty fast and like playing from a hard drive.

Plus you don't need an expensive disk system if you have the DW rom in a cart.

 

The coco uses industry standard DSDD 360K drives. A coco disk system is an external case and power supply that houses the floppy drive(s)

The ribbon cable runs from the case to a cartridge disk controller that plugs into the coco same as any rom Pak would,

 

tandy_coco_fd501-disk_1-778274.jpg

 

For display, the CoCo3 does output composite, and it would be fine for playing the Sierra games.

 

Edit: You could get a disk system and hunt down the KQ3 disks. Also if you check that "nightly" link I posted above, all the games are provided with DSDD images.

So you could, or some one could for you, make those disk images to actual disks to run on a disk system.

Saving is not a problem as the game offers a way to prepare and make save disks,

Edited by Official Ninja

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a CoCo3 with disk system someone gave me locally. They saw my location on the coco mailing list and wanted to give the coco stuff to someone rather than throw it away. Also got a NICE CM8 monitor from the deal. Not pictured, but this image shows it using the hawksoft Svideo adapter.

 

8445237289_5d24b3c3ff_q.jpgHawksoft svideo by CharliePel, on Flickr

Edited by Official Ninja
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everybody

 

 

Yea, I ran across that discussion a long time ago & would never trust dealing with crooks like that...that's such a shame....

 

I don't want to get another monitor or TV though, my goal is to play the Coco3 on my HDTV like the rest of my old systems. & I'm afraid the RGB to VGA wont be an option for me, cuz unfortunately the VGA input on my TV cant even handle my Dreamcast's resolution..I had to get a seperate VGA to HMDI upscaler as well, which luckily worked out fine.....I suppose maybe I could do the RGB -> VGA -> HDMI using the same upscaler??? I would really like to find another way cuz I would like to not have to disconnect/ reconnect any of my systems, just have them all hooked up & ready to go whenever I feel like playing

 

 

Official Ninja.

 

Sorry but Im a little confused as to what the disk controller is....I had a Coco3 for a brief time as a child but used cartridges only...and the 1st family PC we had was in the early-mid 90s & the CD-Rom drive was all that was really used...My knowledge of any computer technology prior to that is pretty limited lol..What if I wanted to buy the Coco Disk Drive & the actual Kings Quest & Leisure Suit Larry discs?? How would I go about saving then ?? The Super IDE is sold out too it seems....I watched a YT vid from Atari Leaf on the Drivewire, so I get what you're saying about that pretty much, but I dont have a computer with a serial port nor would I really want to have to get one & set it up just for the Coco...is there a serial -> USB adpater or other way??

 

Id rather buy the actual games if possible & build a little collection...but being a good portion of the library seems close to impossible to ever track down, guess I wouldnt mind playing the rarer roms on my system with such devices...

 

 

Yes that's what I use - a simple serial to usb adapter which works quite well. I hook my laptop to my coco 3 with it and run drivewire through it.

 

Although superide is not being sold, Cloud9 is working on new hardware to replace it called Flashpak. He updated it's status on the coco mailing list a while ago but I can't find those posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, thats actually what I imagined it would be, plugging into the cartridge port....Yea at 1st I was sure that KQ III was the only one officialy released, but later saw IV on a site once & thought it was a prototype somebody reproduced, didnt know it was fan made....Def wanna check it out still...& Yep that setup looks nice, I would like to just get the Disk Drive/Controller & hunt down the orignal games...Good to know you can save, I thought maybe that would require buying additional hardware....I dont have a S-Video input on my TV & the VGA wont be able to display the Coco3...I do know it has composite & like I said, I am counting on that to work, but what I was really wanting to know is if there were any higher quality options involving the RGB out to an HDMI port on my TV or something...Im guessing I could do the RGB to VGA cable & run that to a VGA to HDMI upscaler if no such thing as a RGB to HDMI exists....

 

What's up again, Atari Leaf?! Your videos along with Marlin Lee & Glenvdb have been VERY helpful to me in my Coco education & game discovery! I've already picked a few games based on seeing your reviews! ;-) Thats awesome to know, I assumed there had to be a serial to USB, but wasnt sure since you were using an XP machine in the video due to the serial port on it...The Flashpak sounds interesting! Be nice to pick one of those up later on this year....Personally I barely use emulation at all anymore aside from MAME...I started out collecting mainly for Atari back in the day, but nowadays am becoming a retrogaming junkie in general & IDK just would rather collect & play the originals...I see this differently though, because you're still playing the games on its orginal hardware & lets face it, there are just WAY too many obscure titles out there that I will never find before I die haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

What's up again, Atari Leaf?! Your videos along with Marlin Lee & Glenvdb have been VERY helpful to me in my Coco education & game discovery! I've already picked a few games based on seeing your reviews! ;-) Thats awesome to know, I assumed there had to be a serial to USB, but wasnt sure since you were using an XP machine in the video due to the serial port on it...

 

Thanks, yea I think that's probably an older video, haven't used that computer in years although I still have it rockin an older version of Ubuntu now. I think the serial to usb is a pretty cheap cable that I found locally at a computer store IIRC.

 

Glad you're enjoying your coco gaming. Always happy to help create more "coco" nuts :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a CoCo3 with disk system someone gave me locally. They saw my location on the coco mailing list and wanted to give the coco stuff to someone rather than throw it away. Also got a NICE CM8 monitor from the deal. Not pictured, but this image shows it using the hawksoft Svideo adapter.

 

8445237289_5d24b3c3ff_q.jpgHawksoft svideo by CharliePel, on Flickr

 

Damn. Jealous = me :-o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For sure...Ive put it off for too long...Its a fun & interesting system to collect for & learn about + the nostalgia factor is there since I had it at one point haha

 

&yea man, me too.....His Coco setups look sweet in those pics & Im very envious of the Mame Cab too! lol...been wanting one of those for ages....one day (Id really like a pedestal right below my flatscreen) ....The Coco monitor setup is cool & its crossed my mind but think I gotta relive the way I had it setup as a kid, in the back of the TV.....Of course the set I own now doesnt have the 2 knobs numbered from 2-83 tho =P..haha

Edited by Stevaside
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm tempted to modify one of my broken full-height one-sided CoCo disk drives to fit two half-height floppies. Heck, I just had a thought that, since the floppy controller I installed in my 'legacy interface' PC has a connector that supports two external drives, maybe I could somehow make it CoCo *and* PC compatible. But then again, I think the PC controller still needs a twist in the cable between the two drives (and I'm aware that the CoCo doesn't do that, favoring selection jumpers or pulled pins on the cable) so maybe that's a bad idea unless I can expose the connectors for both drives and hook them up as if they're individual units.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's also a floppy disk emulator for the CoCo (1 - 3) called the CoCo SDC (http://tandycoco.com/blog/testing-darren-atkinsons-sdc-floppy-emulator/ and also http://cocosdc.blogspot.com/ ). List member DarrenA makes it. His first run sold out and he is gauging interest for a second run.

 

The SDC has the benefit of being able to transfer files via DriveWire as well as truly emulating the CoCo floppy systems to play the games that other emulators cannot (Diecom games and a few others). Of course you can also use a PC to copy files directly to the SD card as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to look at the SuperIDE from Cloud 9. It's a CF-card and IDE controller for the Coco series. They also do a 512K RAM upgrade for the Coco3. You'd need the 512K RAM if you wanted to play Socky's excellent arcade conversion of Donkey Kong but IMHO, this alone is worth the extra $50 for the upgrade. http://www.frontiernet.net/~mmarlette/Cloud-9/Hardware/SuperIDE.html

 

A word of warning: I WOULDN'T touch the "other" MicroSD-based solid-state device currently being advertised.

 

I'm not even going to name it here but if you look at my next link, you'll see the seller advertised this product, sat on the pile of donated cash for months, then took the money and disappeared. I ordered one of these "others" in 2010 and the original seller has since "sold" his business and all his debts to another guy who has become just as elusive. I've resigned myself to the fact I fed him $99 for a couple of pieces of vapourware.

 

The devices are still being advertised but showing as out of stock (no surprise there) but I genuinely wouldn't touch these devices (or the makers) with YOUR 10-foot stick, let alone one of my own!

 

To see what I mean, read "A Cautionary Tale for the Tandy CoCo Community":

http://www.bytecellar.com/2012/01/10/a-cautionary-tale-for-the-tandy-coco-community/

 

As far as monitor support is concerned, You could look for an original Tandy/Radio Shack CM-8 but there can't be too many left. The RGB socket is under the Coco 3. I have an S-Video interface for mine but I'm looking to make up a lead to convert from the Coco's pins to a SCART connector, more common in the UK. If you come across a source of RGB cables, let me know as I'd like one myself. the 80 column mode used in NitrOS-9 doesn't look too clear from the regular composite-out!

I hate to see how the Roger saga ended. His MicroSd Pak was great. I had nothing but a great experience when dealing with him. I don't know any back story as far as the interaction Roger had with other key members of COCO community. I ordered pak from him and received it within 2 weeks. It was a b-day present to myself several years ago. The company that took over for him is a little strange. I was interested in getting a spare and said they would be selling them shortly after completing back orders. I also ask if could sending me pdf of the instruction manual that came with the pak. I have lost mine after several moves. If anyone has one I would greatly appreciated if could get a copy. I want it due to it having what games where on what disk on pak. I feel for those and their experience but mine was nothing but positive. That being said I am definitely interested in Cloud9's upcoming pak.

Edited by lumbee74
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to see how the Roger saga ended. His MicroSd Pak was great. I had nothing but a great experience when dealing with him. I don't know any back story as far as the interaction Roger had with other key members of COCO community. I ordered pak from him and received it within 2 weeks. It was a b-day present to myself several years ago. The company that took over for him is a little strange. I was interested in getting a spare and said they would be selling them shortly after completing back orders. I also ask if could sending me pdf of the instruction manual that came with the pak. I have lost mine after several moves. If anyone has one I would greatly appreciated if could get a copy. I want it due to it having what games where on what disk on pak. I feel for those and their experience but mine was nothing but positive. That being said I am definitely interested in Cloud9's upcoming pak.

After being fobbed-off by Roger's many promises and initial promising communications from the company who took over the back orders but still not fulfilling, I lost interest and bought a second Coco 3 and SuperIDE from Cloud9. It looked promising after Roger sold the company. Initial email responses gave the impression my DrivePak might just've shown up eventually but like communications with Roger, these responses eventually dried up and I no longer receive responses to emails sent.

 

I've given up hope of EVER receiving a MicroSD DrivePak and certainly would not recommend anyone purchase from Roger OR the new seller. The whole thing has left a very sour taste in my mouth.

 

On a positive note, dealing with Cloud9 (Who Roger swears are vile, loathsome people - their differences of opinion can be found dotted around the web: http://newfoal.com/tandycolorcomputer/thetruth.php) has been very pleasant. I received a mint-looking 512K Coco3, SuperIDE and SVGA adaptor within a week of ordering, direct to the UK.

 

When I sent money to Roger, I paid for a DrivePak and a copy of his Phoenix IDE. I received neither. His IDE (Integrated Development Environment) never got past the first few Beta releases. Another stalled project and [for me], money down the toilet.

 

Of the two, I know who I'd rather trust to purchase from again.

Edited by UKRetrogamer
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After being fobbed-off by Roger's many promises and initial promising communications from the company who took over the back orders but still not fulfilling, I lost interest and bought a second Coco 3 and SuperIDE from Cloud9. It looked promising after Roger sold the company. Initial email responses gave the impression my DrivePak might just've shown up eventually but like communications with Roger, these responses eventually dried up and I no longer receive responses to emails sent.

 

I've given up hope of EVER receiving a MicroSD DrivePak and certainly would not recommend anyone purchase from Roger OR the new seller. The whole thing has left a very sour taste in my mouth.

 

On a positive note, dealing with Cloud9 (Who Roger swears are vile, loathsome people - their differences of opinion can be found dotted around the web: http://newfoal.com/tandycolorcomputer/thetruth.php) has been very pleasant. I received a mint-looking 512K Coco3, SuperIDE and SVGA adaptor within a week of ordering, direct to the UK.

 

When I sent money to Roger, I paid for a DrivePak and a copy of his Phoenix IDE. I received neither. His IDE (Integrated Development Environment) never got past the first few Beta releases. Another stalled project and [for me], money down the toilet.

 

Of the two, I know who I'd rather trust to purchase from again.

I bought the Rainbow IDE, some of the CoCo Mugs he was selling and something else from him. I repeatedly had to remind him about my order and issues with the Rainbow IDE were never fixed which was magically replaced with the Phoenix IDE... which sounds just as reliable.

Edited by JamesD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After being fobbed-off by Roger's many promises and initial promising communications from the company who took over the back orders but still not fulfilling, I lost interest and bought a second Coco 3 and SuperIDE from Cloud9. It looked promising after Roger sold the company. Initial email responses gave the impression my DrivePak might just've shown up eventually but like communications with Roger, these responses eventually dried up and I no longer receive responses to emails sent.

 

I've given up hope of EVER receiving a MicroSD DrivePak and certainly would not recommend anyone purchase from Roger OR the new seller. The whole thing has left a very sour taste in my mouth.

 

On a positive note, dealing with Cloud9 (Who Roger swears are vile, loathsome people - their differences of opinion can be found dotted around the web: http://newfoal.com/tandycolorcomputer/thetruth.php) has been very pleasant. I received a mint-looking 512K Coco3, SuperIDE and SVGA adaptor within a week of ordering, direct to the UK.

 

When I sent money to Roger, I paid for a DrivePak and a copy of his Phoenix IDE. I received neither. His IDE (Integrated Development Environment) never got past the first few Beta releases. Another stalled project and [for me], money down the toilet.

 

Of the two, I know who I'd rather trust to purchase from again.

I am looking at getting my COCO3 updated to 512k once get some spare money to buy upgrade. I never had bad experience by Roger like said in previous post, but definitely got funny feeling about company who bought him out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am looking at getting my COCO3 updated to 512k once get some spare money to buy upgrade. I never had bad experience by Roger like said in previous post, but definitely got funny feeling about company who bought him out.

I certainly wouldn't deal with Roger or the company who bought his debts again, even if I were PAID to do so. Their ethics feel too similar. They could almost be the same person.

 

The new Cloud9 "Triad" upgrade is an easy fit and is only $50. My 512K Coco3 is fitted with the earlier Cloud9 SIMM adaptor but this works just as well, though I believe the triad runs cooler.

Edited by UKRetrogamer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.I do know it has composite & like I said, I am counting on that to work, but what I was really wanting to know is if there were any higher quality options involving the RGB out to an HDMI port on my TV or something...Im guessing I could do the RGB to VGA cable & run that to a VGA to HDMI upscaler if no such thing as a RGB to HDMI exists....

 

I recently bought a Commodore monitor and cables from cloud9 for the Coco3. Surprisingly my newish 27inch Asus monitor displays the Coco3 perfectly with only the cloud9 RGB to VGA cable. ....and as discussed above, I can't recommend cloud9 enough.

 

I recently got a twin disk drive system as apparently some software only works when that hardware is present. I'm glad I forked out for the drives and controller, something satisfying about hearing the drive tick away loading software!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cloud 9 is who I plan on getting my Coco3 from soon. They've given me very fast responses to my emails so far & I seem to hear nothing but good from people about them. Really sucks how many people I keep hearing that dude screwed over. Glad I stumbled upon that article about him before I wound up dealing with him.

Edited by Stevaside

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've loaned one of my Coco3's to a friend who makes and sells cables on UK eBay. I've done it with other machines in the past so he can increase the range of cables he makes.

 

Hopefully, in a week, I should have a working RGB cable for my Coco3. We're just debating how best to go about making up the cable. A short run of ribbon into a DIN plug, then a DIN to SCART lead from there or...?

 

Still, I'm hoping it'll increase the clarity of the NitrOS-9 text display from my SuperIDE. It's not practical to use NitrOS from the standard composite connections. Text quality varies from barely-readable to garbage, depending on the TV/Monitor I plug the Coco into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you can just use a long run of ribbon cable to the SCART. I've had cables made by Roy Justus for his VGA adapter box, ribbon and shielded worked exactly the same for me.

There was no less and no more noise to be seen either way. Those cables were no more than 2ft long.

 

Then again, if you go with a little ribbon to a female DIN, you can then make different cables for different monitors using that one little ribbon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then again, if you go with a little ribbon to a female DIN, you can then make different cables for different monitors using that one little ribbon.

I think that's the way we're looking to go with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...