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nitrofurano

msxdev-karoshi surprising again! :)

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as from the last years, the msxdev-karoshi is surprising again this year!

http://karoshi.auic.es/index.php/board,26.0.html

i really wished seeing these games being ported to ColecoVision (btw, those 2 games i’m submitting there, i would love seeing them running on ColecoVision as well, so i guess i will need a lot your help, guys! :)  (i will actually try to compile them for sg1000, and so i imagine from there, instead of msx1, would be far easier to port?) )

Edited by nitrofurano

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I guess there are two parts to your request: Help with the software port, and help with publishing. Finish the port first, and then ask CollectorVision to publish it for you, and they will likely say yes. :)

For the software port aspect, you need to tell the people here what programming language you're using, assembly or C. From there, some people could actually help you a little bit. :)

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My suggestion (and I hope retroillucid will read this) is to contact these MSX homebrew authors right now and tell them that if their games runs on MSX1 without any kind of extra hardware, then they should consider porting their games to the ColecoVision immediately after the contest is over, while the source code of their games is still fresh in their memory.

These homebrew authors need to know that the Super Game Module gives them extra RAM and a dedicated MSX sound chip to work with on the ColecoVision, and there's also the MegaCart PCB that lets them break the natural 32K barrier of Coleco carts. Once they are aware of these facts, there's a good chance they'll be tempted to do the ports themselves.

It's really all about proper timing and forging the iron while it's hot. If too much time is allowed to pass, then whatever these authors remember of their source code will fade away, and no amount of hardware and documentation incentives will make them revisit their source code.

To think that we could be playing "The Cure" on our ColecoVisions right now if I had only known about it way back then... Today I can't even get a reply from the game's author. :ponder:

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If there is any interest I can try to make a Coleco Version of Jawbreaker II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7agOaNPANyg).

 

It's not using more than 1KB of Ram and the whole game fits in 16KB. The only challenge for me is the Coleco soundchip which I'm not too familiar with but if there is some sort of existing routine that translate AY registers to Coleco soundchip it should be fairly simple.

Edited by Maggoo

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If there is any interest I can try to make a Coleco Version of Jawbreaker II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7agOaNPANyg).
 
It's not using more than 1KB of Ram and the whole game fits in 16KB. The only challenge for me is the Coleco soundchip which I'm not too familiar with but if there is some sort of existing routine that translate AY registers to Coleco soundchip it should be fairly simple.


I'm not really an expert with the CV sound chip, but I can tell you that it's fairly similar to the MSX1 PSG sound chip. The main difference is with the sound output range, as there are some sounds that the MSX1 PSG can produce that the CV PSG cannot, so you may have to adjust your music/sound FX data a little bit.

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If there is any interest I can try to make a Coleco Version of Jawbreaker II: ).
 
It's not using more than 1KB of Ram and the whole game fits in 16KB. The only challenge for me is the Coleco soundchip which I'm not too familiar with but if there is some sort of existing routine that translate AY registers to Coleco soundchip it should be fairly simple.

Was this game the inspiration for the Pac man level in the gamester 81 homebrew?

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If Jawbreaker 1 or 2 were to see a release on the CV, that would actually remove another vaporware game from that very long list. Jawbreaker I was announced for the CV by Sierra On-Line as well as by Coleco as part of "The Best of Sierra On-Line" for the ADAM Computer. 

 

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gnLF6mDNgyU[/media]

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Was this game the inspiration for the Pac man level in the gamester 81 homebrew?

 

Not at All,  Intially the Pac Man level is based on the Cave Level of Smurf Challenge.  And the Cave level of Smurf Challenge was inspired from Asterix on Atari 2600  (or Taz  in U.S).

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Are you still working on your ZX Basic ports?  I'm sure if you continue working on those more and more people will be able to convert your favorite games :)

yes, and i actually want to have my karoshi-msxdev-2014 entries ported to ColecoVision as well!

http://karoshi.auic.es/index.php/topic,2523.0.html

http://karoshi.auic.es/index.php/topic,2527.0.html

 

and since i actually made the sg1000 versions of them, as you all can see there on the first post of each thread, i think the conversion to ColecoVision might be far easier, even only by code conversion? (the sources might be a huge mess, i coded them on Boriel’s ZX-Basic Compiler, the code is still too dirty, and the intermediary .asm file uses stack a lot) - i didn't release the sources of them yet because the contest is still underway (now it is a week for small bugfixes) - and the rules are unclear about when, and i imagine more submitters will share their sources as well (since the rules tries to encourage that)

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My suggestion (and I hope retroillucid will read this) is to contact these MSX homebrew authors right now and tell them that if their games runs on MSX1 without any kind of extra hardware, then they should consider porting their games to the ColecoVision immediately after the contest is over, while the source code of their games is still fresh in their memory.
 

 

I'm still here  .... thanks Luc, I appreciate :)

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I'm still here  .... thanks Luc, I appreciate :)

 

I just mentioned your name because you and Tobie are the most likely to accept publishing a port from those MSXdev participants.  :)  You really should contact them by any means possible, just to see if they could be interested. That is, if you're interested yourselves.   ;)

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I just mentioned your name because you and Tobie are the most likely to accept publishing a port from those MSXdev participants.  :)  You really should contact them by any means possible, just to see if they could be interested. That is, if you're interested yourselves.    ;)

 

I've contacted them :)

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I've contacted them :)

 

btw, from http://karoshi.auic.es/index.php/topic,2501.0.html , we must not forget that there is a very important part of the rules that says:

 

"
By publishing your game entry thread, the group or individuals that owe the project are explicitly accepting MSXdev’14 rules. These include the following:
...
State in the instructions the freeware status of any game participating in MSXdev contest. Any freeware license can be used, as long as the full game can be freely obtained by the users. Publishing the source code of the games is not compulsory, but it is strongly encouraged.
It is now possible to redistribute the game, either in digital or physical format, and it is also possible to sell it as long as a free download link is always granted.
...
"
and most of people there, like me, want to have the roms and sources always available, and without any kind of distribution restriction - i guess this is why you might struggle a lot on contacting them, since such commitment situation is very uncomfortable (at least for me, it is, a lot), and might destroy the joy and excitement we are having it, even if there are billions of dollars involved (and i guess was exactly that situation that made Jon Cortazar wishing to stop msxdev years ago (because this discomfort), and thankfully he didn’t?)
 
so i guess that, retroillucid, that, when related to msxdev, we might think on another distrubution system that would guarantee that our sources and roms will be always available, perhaps using crowdfunding for warranting you are not being financially prejudiced in the rom burning and distribution process, and doesn’t force us into such uncomfortable commitment situation? what do you think?
Edited by nitrofurano

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If there is any interest I can try to make a Coleco Version of Jawbreaker II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7agOaNPANyg).

 

It's not using more than 1KB of Ram and the whole game fits in 16KB. The only challenge for me is the Coleco soundchip which I'm not too familiar with but if there is some sort of existing routine that translate AY registers to Coleco soundchip it should be fairly simple.

 

It seems like its using more than 1kb  of memory somewhere. At least I saw the MSX version using memory from 0xE000-0xE53D and that is not including the stack. At CV you have 1kb memory including the stack, and if you using the CV bios, a few more bytes might be in use :( I normaly use 0x6000-0x63FF at the CV, other prefer to use 0x7000-0x73FF. You might use VRAM if possible if more than 0x3FF bytes (including the stack) is in use.

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btw, from http://karoshi.auic.es/index.php/topic,2501.0.html , we must not forget that there is a very important part of the rules that says:
 

"
By publishing your game entry thread, the group or individuals that owe the project are explicitly accepting MSXdev’14 rules. These include the following:
...
State in the instructions the freeware status of any game participating in MSXdev contest. Any freeware license can be used, as long as the full game can be freely obtained by the users. Publishing the source code of the games is not compulsory, but it is strongly encouraged.
It is now possible to redistribute the game, either in digital or physical format, and it is also possible to sell it as long as a free download link is always granted.
...
"

and most of people there, like me, want to have the roms and sources always available, and without any kind of distribution restriction - i guess this is why you might struggle a lot on contacting them, since such commitment situation is very uncomfortable (at least for me, it is, a lot), and might destroy the joy and excitement we are having it, even if there are billions of dollars involved (and i guess was exactly that situation that made Jon Cortazar wishing to stop msxdev years ago (because this discomfort), and thankfully he didn’t?)
 
so i guess that, retroillucid, that, when related to msxdev, we might think on another distrubution system that would guarantee that our sources and roms will be always available, perhaps using crowdfunding for warranting you are not being financially prejudiced in the rom burning and distribution process, and doesn’t force us into such uncomfortable commitment situation? what do you think?


I don't understand what the problem is. The authors can freely distribute the ROM (or even the source code) of the original MSX version if they want. If it's the exact same game as the ColecoVision port, then they can play with it all they want under emulation.

And what's this about "billions of dollars involved"? No one's going to get rich by selling 100 copies of a game made for a 30-year-old video game console.

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It seems like its using more than 1kb  of memory somewhere. At least I saw the MSX version using memory from 0xE000-0xE53D and that is not including the stack. At CV you have 1kb memory including the stack, and if you using the CV bios, a few more bytes might be in use :( I normaly use 0x6000-0x63FF at the CV, other prefer to use 0x7000-0x73FF. You might use VRAM if possible if more than 0x3FF bytes (including the stack) is in use.

 

Yes it does at the moment but I already shaved off 192 bytes of buffer I was not using. The PT3 music replayer I am using is also a bit RAM hungry with 384 bytes of RAM used for various stuffs and I'm thinking that a good option would be to replace that replayer all together (since it would need to be modified for the Coleco anyway) with another mean of making music.

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It is now possible to redistribute the game, either in digital or physical format, and it is also possible to sell it as long as a free download link is always granted.

 

 

Personally I dislike this in the 2012/2013/2014 year rules, because the contest explicitly trying to "control" my distribution rights.

 

For example, when I published Zombie Near, obviously it "stays" within the contest archives. For cartridge publication I was being lazy, but publisher (Matra) asked me for an enhanced version and they were right, specially in MSX scene, if people thinks it's same they simply download the ROM and don't buy the game...

 

So if you publish a game in the MSXdev under these new rules, it limits indirectly the publication of homebrew cartridges for MSX.

 

I've commented about this before [url]http://karoshi.auic.es/index.php/topic,2281.0.html[/url] without official response from organizer, only the previous contest maintainer said it shouldn't be read strictly.

 

Anyway it was enough to keep me away from the contest.

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Personally I dislike this in the 2012/2013/2014 year rules, because the contest explicitly trying to "control" my distribution rights.

 

For example, when I published Zombie Near, obviously it "stays" within the contest archives. For cartridge publication I was being lazy, but publisher (Matra) asked me for an enhanced version and they were right, specially in MSX scene, if people thinks it's same they simply download the ROM and don't buy the game...

 

So if you publish a game in the MSXdev under these new rules, it limits indirectly the publication of homebrew cartridges for MSX.

 

I've commented about this before http://karoshi.auic.es/index.php/topic,2281.0.html without official response from organizer, only the previous contest maintainer said it shouldn't be read strictly.

 

Anyway it was enough to keep me away from the contest.

 

but from other side, the purpose of these game development contests is, not only for keeping the scene alive, providing more new games easily accessible, incentive people to learn game coding, having fun and joy during the contest, sharing knowledge and experience, and so on

 

for example, what i loved in contests like CSSCGC is that we see a lot of ludicrously stupid and funny stuff there, and there are no prizes at all in that contest - in 3 years, i think i submitted more than 5 games there! :D (and that was what motivated me to learn Boriel’s ZX-Basic Compiler, and found a huge potential from that cross-development tool to code to all other z80-based hardware, as it was for msx, sg1000, master system (haroldoop also uses Boriel’s for that), gamegear, etc. )

 

the problem is, when you restrict the access to the resulting roms, people would be also restricted to know what the game is about (unless people share videos of the game at youtube or so on...), and the purpose of the contest becomes totally nonsensical... :S

 

and personally, for me, for my personal case, is essential, not only sharing the roms, as i think it's even more important sharing the sources (which is what i'm about to share next week, at msxdev'14)

 

and from me, everything i develop is purely for joy, experimental stuff, and having the development a part of the experimentation, learning and knowledge/experience sharing process

 

i wouldn’t see as a problem if the "publishing" process could be only complementary to all of this, but it is when it hugely restricts my freedom and pleasure of doing this

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We only ask the author to hold the rom file until all the production is soldout , wich usually takes few months and sometimes only few weeks

when the production is soldout, you can share the rom file, no problem at all

 

:)

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We only ask the author to hold the rom file until all the production is soldout , wich usually takes few months and sometimes only few weeks

when the production is soldout, you can share the rom file, no problem at all

 

:)

it’s way too difficult... for me, even holding the sources for a week is a huge torture

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