AV Why didn't later atar 7800s have built-in AV ports as well as RF out?

[AtariLeaf]

 

If literally a penny can be saved by using a different, possibly inferior, type of screw, then a company will do it since that's money saved over potentially millions of units. It only has to make sense to those holding the purse strings. With that said, I think not having the POKEY built into the 7800 was a criminal omission. You generally don't want to go backwards in tech specs when you release a new console, but Atari managed to accomplish that feat.

 

As for the RF only thing, I can't imagine even one sale being lost to it not doing composite. It just wasn't an issue at the time.

 

IIRC you mentioned something similar in your coco book about the way Tandy went about designing the various models of Color Computer. When considering the manufacturing of items into the millions then I guess it does become a legitimate business decision.

Edited June 29, 2014 by AtariLeaf

[Prosystemsearch]

 

If literally a penny can be saved by using a different, possibly inferior, type of screw, then a company will do it since that's money saved over potentially millions of units. It only has to make sense to those holding the purse strings. With that said, I think not having the POKEY built into the 7800 was a criminal omission. You generally don't want to go backwards in tech specs when you release a new console, but Atari managed to accomplish that feat.

 

As for the RF only thing, I can't imagine even one sale being lost to it not doing composite. It just wasn't an issue at the time.

It really would have helped if they put more priority into the GUMBY chip, finished it, and built it into the 7800. Atari should have been more stern with ICC. I think that ICC was just being viciously frugal.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Prosystemsearch

[108 Stars]

Like for every "why didn't Atari" question... the answer is money. The Tramiels were just known to do business by cutting costs. Unnecessary stuff had to go. Yeah, it would have been nice to get better video output in later revisions (The Master System from 1985 had RGB output), but it would have been against what Jack Tramiel's mentality was. How did he put it in his Commodore days? Computers for the masses, not for the classes. The 7800 was meant to compete by its price point when it was finally released in full scale.

[Phredreeke]

You're acting as if the 7800 was Atari's flagship, it was not (that would be the computer line). If anything it was GCC's flagship.

 

The perceived value of an AV connector wouldn't have outweighed the cost. Keep in mind the original Famicom didn't have any AV output either.

 

GCC had to make the system at a pricepoint that would sell.

[2600 Forever]

Why did the original PlayStation not have HDMI out?

 

 

BUMP

[Prosystemsearch]

Like for every "why didn't Atari" question... the answer is money. The Tramiels were just known to do business by cutting costs. Unnecessary stuff had to go. Yeah, it would have been nice to get better video output in later revisions (The Master System from 1985 had RGB output), but it would have been against what Jack Tramiel's mentality was. How did he put it in his Commodore days? Computers for the masses, not for the classes. The 7800 was meant to compete by its price point when it was finally released in full scale.

If only Atari Inc.'s computer and home console division were instead sold to Paramount, or Radioshack, or Sony, or even IBM rather than commodore.

[ApolloBoy]

If only Atari Inc.'s computer and home console division were instead sold to Paramount, or Radioshack, or Sony, or even IBM rather than commodore.

What makes you think things would've turned out better under them?

[Lynxpro]

You're acting as if the 7800 was Atari's flagship, it was not (that would be the computer line). If anything it was GCC's flagship.

 

The perceived value of an AV connector wouldn't have outweighed the cost. Keep in mind the original Famicom didn't have any AV output either.

 

GCC had to make the system at a pricepoint that would sell.

 

GCC did what was best for GCC. They hoodwinked Warner into commissioning the 7800 in the first place just as the 5200 was turning around in sales. Atari Inc. already had working self-centering 5200 joysticks they were ready to bring to market but GCC convinced Warner the 5200 was a lost cause.

 

GCC went further by not including the POKEY so they could hopefully sell Atari Inc. a GUMBY chip for every single future 7800 cartridge produced. And one of the reasons why the 7800 was delayed following Jack Tramiel's purchase of Atari Consumer was - according to Curt & Marty - due to Jack wanting to sell the 7800 at the $50 price point during the Christmas 1984 season and GCC balked because that would've reduced their royalty per console sold. [granted, that begs the question how much the 2600 Jr. would've retailed for under that scenario].

 

At this point, we don't know if the GUMBY was started/completed and whether it truly was superior to the POKEY [probably not] all the while supposedly cheaper to produce. Warner/Atari should've just bundled a Dual or Quad POKEY in the 7800 from the start and given GCC the finger.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

If literally a penny can be saved by using a different, possibly inferior, type of screw, then a company will do it since that's money saved over potentially millions of units. It only has to make sense to those holding the purse strings. With that said, I think not having the POKEY built into the 7800 was a criminal omission.

The NES and SMS had awesome soundchips; heck even the Coleco had good audio. How many potential customers fired up a game on a 7800 demo Kiosk, then ran away with their ears covered? The Pokey chip would have stood up as a respectable soundchip in the mid-1980s. Maybe not quite as nice as the the NES custom audio, but it would have allowed games to have full BGM soundtracks.

 

It also seems that half the people who bought a 7800 just got one to play 2600 games. Can't much blame them with their recycled arcade ports, although there are a few gems like Food Fight. By the time 1990s rolled around, Atari had a reputation for crap, unfortunate as that is, and the Jag library backs that up.

[+slx]

Like for every "why didn't Atari" question... the answer is money. The Tramiels were just known to do business by cutting costs. Unnecessary stuff had to go. Yeah, it would have been nice to get better video output in later revisions (The Master System from 1985 had RGB output), but it would have been against what Jack Tramiel's mentality was. How did he put it in his Commodore days? Computers for the masses, not for the classes. The 7800 was meant to compete by its price point when it was finally released in full scale.

After reading the history books about Commodore and Charles Tandy, I fully second that. Tramiel wanted to sell masses of not necessarily top-notch hardware at rock-bottom prices.

[Prosystemsearch]

What makes you think things would've turned out better under them?

IBM and Radioshack were not so keen on being el cheapo "we MUST sell at rock bottom prices" as commodore was at the time.

[Stevaside]

Yea, A/V inputs still weren't the norm back then....Everyone I knew back then that had the NES were using the coax too....I'll never get over the sadness from dwelling on what the 7800 could have been if things were just done differently ...I still love it tho..

[boxpressed]

I know where this is going. Another Zionist conspiracy thread by the OP.

[Bill Loguidice]

IBM and Radioshack were not so keen on being el cheapo "we MUST sell at rock bottom prices" as commodore was at the time.

 

Actually, while Tandy experimented with higher end stuff, they absolutely did things on the cheap as was mentioned by "AtariLeaf" in reference to the book I co-wrote, CoCo: The Colorful History of Tandy's Underdog Computer. While that didn't necessarily always translate to lower prices to consumers, Tandy definitely cut corners when they had to in deference to internal cost calculations. That's why despite several almost-there proper successors to the original Color Computer being released time and again they went with simpler incremental improvements for actual retail release. By the way, in that same book, we talk about Tandy's flirtation with entering or buying their way into the videogame business. That obviously didn't go anywhere either.

[7800]

I only new one kid back in 1986-1987 who used the A/V ports on his NES. He came from a well off family and had a nice TV with A/V outputs. TV's with A/V ports were available, but they were probably premium priced, and most families probably didn't spring for them... at least in my neighborhood. So I can understand the decision for Atari to not even bother with them.

 

Speaking of better outputs, I just acquired a 1991 Mitsubishi 26" CRT TV with S-video... I never had a CRT with an S-video out. I didn't even know S-video was around back then... I thought that was a late 90's thing.

[Stevaside]

Yea, I remember running my NES into our VCR's A/V inputs a couple times when I was a kid to see if it would record game footage & being stoked upon learning it could...I recorded all the cutscenes in Ninja Gaiden back to back to play em like a little movie haha.....That was it tho, don't know why we stuck with the coax for regular gameplay

Edited June 30, 2014 by Stevaside

[Rhomaios]

I know where this is going. Another Zionist conspiracy thread by the OP.

 

Hopefully it'll end the same as another of his threads.

[Prosystemsearch]

I know where this is going. Another Zionist conspiracy thread by the OP.

Hmmph...

 

What makes you think that, Boxpressed?

Edited June 30, 2014 by Prosystemsearch

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Hopefully it'll end the same as another of his threads.

ProsystemSearch, you are earning quite the reputation. That thread ran barely 3 hours!

 

Yeserday there was a Spam thread for Iranian dishwashers that lasted longer...

[Lynxpro]

ProsystemSearch, you are earning quite the reputation. That thread ran barely 3 hours!

 

Yeserday there was a Spam thread for Iranian dishwashers that lasted longer...

 

Iranian dishwashers? Is that a physical laborer joke?

[Prosystemsearch]

 

GCC did what was best for GCC. They hoodwinked Warner into commissioning the 7800 in the first place just as the 5200 was turning around in sales. Atari Inc. already had working self-centering 5200 joysticks they were ready to bring to market but GCC convinced Warner the 5200 was a lost cause.

 

GCC went further by not including the POKEY so they could hopefully sell Atari Inc. a GUMBY chip for every single future 7800 cartridge produced. And one of the reasons why the 7800 was delayed following Jack Tramiel's purchase of Atari Consumer was - according to Curt & Marty - due to Jack wanting to sell the 7800 at the $50 price point during the Christmas 1984 season and GCC balked because that would've reduced their royalty per console sold. [granted, that begs the question how much the 2600 Jr. would've retailed for under that scenario].

 

At this point, we don't know if the GUMBY was started/completed and whether it truly was superior to the POKEY [probably not] all the while supposedly cheaper to produce. Warner/Atari should've just bundled a Dual or Quad POKEY in the 7800 from the start and given GCC the finger.

Atari should have given more scrutiny to GCC and ordered them and some of their own engineers to have the GUMBY chip built into the 7800.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

Iranian dishwashers? Is that a physical laborer joke?

Sadly no. There was a spam thread completely in Arabic, advertising a local business that sold kitchen appliances including dishwashers within the borders of Iran. No telling how they targeted AtariAge. There was also some english tidbits about whales repeated over and over again. Sadly the original thread has been deleted, but it was quite amusing for a time. It may still be in Google Cache.

[Prosystemsearch]

Sadly no. There was a spam thread completely in Arabic, advertising a local business that sold kitchen appliances including dishwashers within the borders of Iran. No telling how they targeted AtariAge. There was also some english tidbits about whales repeated over and over again. Sadly the original thread has been deleted, but it was quite amusing for a time. It may still be in Google Cache.

Arabic and Farsi are not the same languages.

[DracIsBack]

But...they didn't ... They were cheap, plain and simple.

 

Exactly. They didn't want to 'invest' in the 7800. They wanted its revenue to fund computer projects.

[DracIsBack]

You're acting as if the 7800 was Atari's flagship, it was not (that would be the computer line). If anything it was GCC's flagship.

 

i think Warner viewed it as a flagship. But when Atari was sold to Jack Tramiel, his priorities were different ... computers first. Plus, he had a warehouse of Atari 8bit parts, peripherals, software and a rapidly declining distribution chain. This led to him temporarily making the XE Game System the "flagship" instead.