flashjazzcat Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) You described doing exactly that multiple times (loading the entire Ultimate 1MB ROM into the Imager), and Fujidude appears to have done the same. As long as we're clear now. Edited May 7, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) No, that's not what I did. I loaded just a 256K ROM of SDX (formulated for Ultimate) into SDX Imager. After I made my changes, I saved back out to a 256K SDX (only) ROM. I then used "U1MB ROM Builder" to incorporate that ROM into a larger U1MB ROM. I have also done the same with a different program... "The ROM Generator", also with a fail. It has been too long for me to remember what all the symptoms might have been, but I do seem to remember Altirra either crashing or perhaps just a lock up. Not for sure any more. I think I will give that method a try again, to be sure I didn't miss something and report back. If it fails again, I would like to try the UFlasher method. But even if UFlasher works out, I would still be interested to know why the Windows utilities failed. Since I am doing all of this in emulation, using Windows GUI tools would be slicker, but I'm not afraid to go CLI or character cell program if need be. BTW, using those Windows GUI tools worked fine for customizing which BASICs and OS images were loaded in the U1MB flash ROM. That leads me to believe the 256K SDX image somehow got boogered after being modified and saved back, or each GUI program failed at properly placing it within the larger U1MB ROM build. The odds that two programs both had such a major failure, but were fine with the other parts of the ROM seems quite unlikely (though entirely possible). Odds seem to point to SDX Imager, or... drum roll please... PEBCAK. Given the quality of DLT's software in general, PEBCAK is looking good for it. So I'll try again and report back as I said. Edited May 7, 2015 by fujidude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Well, I don't know that the Windows tools work, but I know that uFlash does because I'm using it now to undertake Ultimate 1MB ROM development. To eliminate PEBCAK, try something known to work, and if things still aren't right, we have narrowed the problem down to PEBCAK or the SDX Imager itself (problems with the latter being extremely unlikely). Either of you might send me the problematic 512KB Ultimate 1MB ROM for a speedier resolution as well... Edited May 7, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 No, that's not what I did. I loaded just a 256K ROM of SDX (formulated for Ultimate) into SDX Imager. After I made my changes, I saved back out to a 256K SDX (only) ROM. I then used "U1MB ROM Builder" to incorporate that ROM into a larger U1MB ROM. I have also done the same with a different program... "The ROM Generator", also with a fail. It has been too long for me to remember what all the symptoms might have been, but I do seem to remember Altirra either crashing or perhaps just a lock up. Not for sure any more. I think I will give that method a try again, to be sure I didn't miss something and report back. If it fails again, I would like to try the UFlasher method. But even if UFlasher works out, I would still be interested to know why the Windows utilities failed. Since I am doing all of this in emulation, using Windows GUI tools would be slicker, but I'm not afraid to go CLI or character cell program if need be. BTW, using those Windows GUI tools worked fine for customizing which BASICs and OS images were loaded in the U1MB flash ROM. That leads me to believe the 256K SDX image somehow got boogered after being modified and saved back, or each GUI program failed at properly placing it within the larger U1MB ROM build. The odds that two programs both had such a major failure, but were fine with the other parts of the ROM seems quite unlikely (though entirely possible). Odds seem to point to SDX Imager, or... drum roll please... PEBCAK. Given the quality of DLT's software in general, PEBCAK is looking good for it. So I'll try again and report back as I said. If there were a problem with "The ROM Generator" and the SDX image, I think I would have seen it by now since it was heavily used... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Okay I used TRG to create a new rom for the u1mb. I just get a black screen. So I attempted to use the uflash.xex on a SDFS floppy and it froze whenever I tried to do anything wiith a slot. Altirra 2.70t12. The one I threw together with TRG is U1MB test.rom. The one I booted up Altirra with and tried to use uflash on is u1mbv2.rom. Any ideas? The floppy is the flash.atr file. Edited May 8, 2015 by fujidude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Both seem to work fine here (aside from the fact the BIOS slot descriptions in "U1MB test.ROM" appear completely mangled). Have you by any chance left System->Console Switches->Use Cart SDX enabled? Edited May 8, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Looks fine to me: Left - u1mbv2.rom Right - U1MB Test.rom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'm really sorry to bother you guys again with my stupid Altirra U1M questions I can get the U1M setup menu (reset+help) to come up once, and then it will not come back again. The only way is to delete the non-volatile RAM part in the Altirra.ini file. When this happens, SDX reverts to using OSRAM, so that locks out UFLASH (to grab a copy of the BIOS) to see if it somehow got corrupted. Sometimes the "enable cart SDX" button is greyed out, sometimes not. Sometimes "Enable IDE HD" causes a hang on boot. I had this trouble last time, but finally got it right, I just don't remember what I did. Now, I am still trying to fix Altirra after a virus induced Windows re-load. It seems like the settings change on their own. Sometimes, I get it working perfectly, and next time, dead. I wish there was a way to backup and restore ALL settings, and a way to LOCK them. Again, sorry. This may just be my own stupidity, but I really think something may be going on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariGeezer Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Looks fine to me: Left - u1mbv2.rom Right - U1MB Test.rom u1mbv2.jpgU1MB Test ROM.JPG Looks like uflash doesn't allow full row editing of the descriptions: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 It seems like the settings change on their own. Sometimes, I get it working perfectly, and next time, dead. I wish there was a way to backup and restore ALL settings, and a way to LOCK them. There is. Use .ini files instead of the registry. You can backup your .ini files and even specifiy differently named ones when you launch altirra via the /portablealt: switch. Example: altirra64 /portablealt:testcandidate.ini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Both seem to work fine here (aside from the fact the BIOS slot descriptions in "U1MB test.ROM" appear completely mangled). Have you by any chance left System->Console Switches->Use Cart SDX enabled? bios.png No, that setting is not on. Very perplexing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'm heading off to get some rest. I'll be back tomorrow to explore this more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phaeron Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I can get the U1M setup menu (reset+help) to come up once, and then it will not come back again. Input > Keyboard > Send raw keystrokes needs to be selected in the emulator for the Reset+Help key combo to work. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Input > Keyboard > Send raw keystrokes needs to be selected in the emulator for the Reset+Help key combo to work. Yep, I came to this myself also and can confirm it works. There are other applications for it as well, for instance when using an alternate OS that brings up a debugger using similar combined key-presses. In regards SDXImager; I now use it to modify FJC's customized SDX distro before flashing it, that seems to be the key. However, it would be nice if the programmers could make it work directly with the ROM. It would save one step, especially if you are working incrementally and trying many small changes in turn to the configuration. To have to re-flash after each one is somewhat tedious, although uFlash is certainly faster than the *.ATR SDX flasher. At least it feels faster. Obviously in terms of the real hardware you would have to reflash each time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) In regards SDXImager; I now use it to modify FJC's customized SDX distro before flashing it, that seems to be the key. This is what I was urging you to do previously. It's definitely the key - no doubt about it. However, it would be nice if the programmers could make it work directly with the ROM. It would save one step, especially if you are working incrementally and trying many small changes in turn to the configuration. There's no reason for the author of the SDX Imager to concern himself with matters outside the SDX ROM image. The Imager works with many different builds of SDX, and it's completely outside the remit of that tool to handle the rest of the Ultimate 1MB ROM. And while there are Windows-based tools for editing the entire Ultimate 1MB ROM image, they are (rightly) not concerned with editing the content of the SDX ROM itself. To have to re-flash after each one is somewhat tedious, although uFlash is certainly faster than the *.ATR SDX flasher. At least it feels faster. Obviously in terms of the real hardware you would have to reflash each time. Whether it's faster or not, the point is that you don't have to reflash the entire Ultimate 1MB ROM when changing only a part of it. The SDX ROM image is a large file (256KB), so it almost feels like you're reflashing the whole chip (although you're only flashing half of it), but BASIC and Operating Systems ROMs and the like are small and are programmed in a matter of seconds, and it makes absolutely no sense to reflash 512KB of ROM when you're only altering 8 or 16KB. That's the whole point, basically. I'm currently working on a small part of the Ultimate 1MB ROM, and the definition of tedious (IMO) would be doing a full 512KB reflash every time I wanted to test 16KB of code on real hardware. Fortunately, flashing only the 16K being changed takes seconds. Edited May 8, 2015 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 There's no reason for the author of the SDX Imager to concern himself with matters outside the SDX ROM image. The Imager works with many different builds of SDX, and it's completely outside the remit of that tool to handle the rest of the Ultimate 1MB ROM. And while there are Windows-based tools for editing the entire Ultimate 1MB ROM image, they are (rightly) not concerned with editing the content of the SDX ROM itself. I hear what you are saying FJC, but I'm still going to make a request with the SDX chaps that they add this functionality. I guess at the end of the day one could just use a hex-editor if it really came down to it. However, you would have to know where all the checksums were kept and update them accordingly along with pointer offsets and the like. I have done the same thing when working on PC BIOS files in the past. I have also spent large amounts of time recovering from small mistakes and over-sights in that process!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Seems like another solution looking for a problem to me, but as they say: no application is complete until it can send email... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I'm really sorry to bother you guys again with my stupid Altirra U1M questions I can get the U1M setup menu (reset+help) to come up once, and then it will not come back again. The only way is to delete the non-volatile RAM part in the Altirra.ini file. When this happens, SDX reverts to using OSRAM, so that locks out UFLASH (to grab a copy of the BIOS) to see if it somehow got corrupted. Sometimes the "enable cart SDX" button is greyed out, sometimes not. Sometimes "Enable IDE HD" causes a hang on boot. I had this trouble last time, but finally got it right, I just don't remember what I did. Now, I am still trying to fix Altirra after a virus induced Windows re-load. It seems like the settings change on their own. Sometimes, I get it working perfectly, and next time, dead. I wish there was a way to backup and restore ALL settings, and a way to LOCK them. Again, sorry. This may just be my own stupidity, but I really think something may be going on... Hey Kyle. I wonder if blowing away your config and redoing it from scratch would be a good idea here. You could use regedit to delete the registry branch for Altirra (export it somewhjere safe first), or (easier), start Altirra once with the /portable switch and it will create a fresh Altirra.ini file (if it doesn't find one already to use). Anytime Altira is started later, the /portable switch is not needed because Altirra goes into .ini mode if it finds an Altirra.ini file in the same folder as the executable that was launched. This allows you to start truly fresh. Carefully go through every setting and make sure to set it appropriately. See how that works out. The cool thing too is, if you want to experiment with settings but would like to easily come back to what you had previously, you can by simply backing up your .ini files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Thanks Guys, I think I got it. It's working much better now. Only thing is, I can't get SDX to read CONFIG.SYS of the C: partition of the SIDE2. No biggie, I had it working before, I'll get it again. I *DO* now have a backup of a working Altirra.ini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Seems like another solution looking for a problem to me, but as they say: no application is complete until it can send email... Send email and update your mybook facespace twitflic and tumblr I would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Sorry to hijack this thread. But I have the toolkit that came with SDX 4,47 and I cannot find KEDIT. Where is this file? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Sorry to hijack this thread. But I have the toolkit that came with SDX 4,47 and I cannot find KEDIT. Where is this file? I suspect it's actually found here: http://atari.kensclassics.org/a8programming.html I found the driver itself in the SDX support disk. I also found a text editor called 'kedit' - which performs a trick I thought previously impossible by making the Linux 'vi' seem user-friendly!!! This appeared to imply that "KEDIT" (like the driver mentioned beforehand) was found on the SDX Toolkit disk, and this seemed plausible since Drac030 was working on a port of VI65 a couple of years back. Of course, now I look, no such editor exists on the Toolkit disk. Thanks for being the first to point that out Stephen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morelenmir Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 This appeared to imply that "KEDIT" (like the driver mentioned beforehand) was found on the SDX Toolkit disk, and this seemed plausible since Drac030 was working on a port of VI65 a couple of years back. Of course, now I look, no such editor exists on the Toolkit disk. I am sorry, that was sloppily worded of me. The FATFS.SYS driver is on the SDX supplemental disk and yep, on checking in my firefox history it seems I did indeed download KEDIT.COM from the site FJC mentions. I have to be honest; I'm not in love with it. That doesn't detract from the skill of the chap who did the programming. With a bit of perseverance it does work and it is VERY similar to "Vi", which is perhaps why we're not really on speaking terms! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roydea6 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 ED.COM for shorter text based files .... config.sys autoexec.bat ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujidude Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I'll have to check out KEDIT. I have been using ED.COM and LW to cover all my editing needs on the A8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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