+tf_hh Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 52 minutes ago, Albert said: I have never opened an XEGS cart, just tons of the older carts with the metal back. Do the Atari XEGS carts not use a screw? That's interesting. There are two "XEGS" carts with complete different PCBs inside. One uses these snaps. This carts are hard to open and most times you damage anything while try to open it. The other models use a screw in the middle like the brown carts with metal back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 10 hours ago, Albert said: Are the XEGS boards the same as the earlier boards from Atari in terms of shape? The boards most often used in the louvered XEGS cartridge shells, the CO26449, are indeed the same shape; you can take a board from an original 400/800 cartridge (the brown ones with the metal back plate) and mount it inside these shells. However, when it is used for 32K-128K games, the CO26449 has a 74LS00 and a 74LS374 installed for bankswitching. These fully populated boards cannot be used in an original 400/800 shell, even though they are the right shape, because the extra chips do not leave the sliding dust door enough space to travel. The 65XE/130XE style shells—the ones with smooth sides and the lip on the back—require the C100649 board, which is a different shape. The only problem with the XEGS shells is that they are held together entirely with plastic snaps. Atari also secured the boards inside with hot glue, which tends to break loose in chunks over time and rattle around inside the cartridge. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to open these cartridges without breaking at least one of the tabs; if all the tabs on one side are broken, it usually isn't possible to securely snap the cartridge closed again. Nevertheless, using the XEGS shell as the model for the new shells would be ideal, in my opinion: they look nice, and you can continue to use the same boards you're already using. It should be possible to add a screw post to the shell in the same spot as the original 400/800 shells (the CO26449 boards already have the necessary post hole); if a screw post is added, it might be possible to eliminate the side tabs entirely, or at least switch to two wider 2600-style tabs per side instead of three to make them harder to break. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sixersfan105 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 9 hours ago, Albert said: I am in the market for a large number of 8-bit shells, and even better if they are compatible with the Atari PCB layout. Al, a little while back you asked everyone for feedback on our favorite 8-bit homebrews, now you say you're in the market for a large number of 8-bit shells...am I reading too much into this or do you intend to begin selling a larger number of A8 games in the AA Store?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 Thanks for the additional information, @jaybird3rd! I've never opened XEGS carts before, just lots of the older style shells with the metal back. That's too bad about the plastic snaps, but I can understand why they did that since they weren't using a screw. I agree with you with regards to making changes to the XEGS design to make them easier to deal with, in particular using a screw as well as making the snap tabs a bit more forgiving so the cart can be pried apart more easily. ..Al 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjlazer Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 The smooth style Atari XE cartridge is much better because it doesn’t get damaged when you open it. Works just fine with older PCBs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sixersfan105 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, tjlazer said: The smooth style Atari XE cartridge is much better because it doesn’t get damaged when you open it. Works just fine with older PCBs. That lip though - terrible! The ribbed/louvered style XE carts are soooo much better looking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) Hello guys Steven Tucker is selling AtariMax cartridge shells. These do not need screws and can be opened and closed very easily without damaging anything. Later this year, I hope to receive a bunch of these shells so that we have some here in Europe if somebody needs them. Sincerely Mathy PS I attached two pictures of my UltimateCart to illustrate what the AtariMax cartridge shells look like when it's opened. Edited July 11, 2019 by Mathy 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 My pleasure, @Albert! Looking at @Sikor's picture again, I'm reminded that the XEGS cartridges actually had a tiny tab near the bottom, and larger tabs in the middle and top, on each side. I don't think I've managed to open one of those cartridges yet without breaking those tiny tabs. So, if the tiny tabs could be eliminated entirely, and if the larger tabs in the middle could perhaps be moved closer to the bottom to replace them, that in itself would be a huge improvement. That, and replacing the plastic nipple inside with a full screw post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) Well, the carts. with plastic snaps were all made in Taiwan, so I usually name them Taiwan carts., whereas the others (with a screw under the label) were made in Hong Kong, so I name them Hong Kong carts. I found out these little things about the two types of carts - and some of them are rather subjective: 1) Taiwan carts: - do have several plastic snaps that break easily (difficult to open without breaking) - do not have a screw (but there is space on the shell and on the pcb for a screw!) - they match the old 400/800/XL pcb's approx. 99% (Afair, the top-end of the pcb of the old 400/800/XL carts. does have small noses/add-ons/break-points that are sitting left+right of a big snap!; these are missing on the pcb of the XE carts; if you want to place the pcb of an old 400/800/XL cart into an XE cart you have to remove these add-ons and if you want to place the pcb of an XE cart into a 400/800/XL case you have to add something, e.g. plastic glue, etc. to keep the pcb in place, since it does not fit to that snap - see picture attached!) - the gold-pins at the bottom of the pcb are a few mm shorter than those of the Hong Kong carts; not a big problem, but I always! have to insert the Taiwan carts several times into my XL computers before they work, whereas all the Hong Kong carts work immediately (maybe has nothing to do with the length of the pins, maybe it is the timing of these carts ?) - still it would be nice if someone could reproduce these cart shells from original or remade molds but a) with one (or more) srews instead of the plastic snaps (screws at the backside of the cart please, not under the label!) and b) without Atari Fuji logo at the backside (due to legal reasons) and maybe c) with gold pins that are a few mm longer and d) a timing that works on all 800/XL/XE computers (yes, I did have some *selfmade* XE carts that worked fine on XE computers but not on my XL computers)... and nope, I do not want them to be printed with a 3D printer... 2) Hong Kong carts: - they have a screw under the label and no plastic snaps (more easily to open, but you have to destroy the label to open them)... - they have an annoying lip at the backside (redundant in my eyes) - they have a completely different pcb, which is only used in these Hong Kong carts and no other Atari (400/800/XL) type carts - they match the old 400/800 pcb's 0% (you cannot exchange pcb's between old Atari and these XE carts) - the gold pins at the bottom of the pcbs are a few mm longer and they always work immediately, when I insert them into my XL computers (therefore I have tried to get every XE cart as a Hong Kong type cart, alas, some carts are hard to find as HK carts and some, like e.g. Archon, seem not to exist as HK carts)... - if you try to place the pcb of an older 400/800/XL cart into the Hong Kong shell, it will fit somehow and slide without problems into the screw hole, but the pcb is too short and thus the gold-pins do not come out of the shell and therefore do not get contact with the cart port (iow does not work)... P.S.: I cannot draw! (Added the words "add-on", "snap", "add-on" and "screw-hole" to the photo, but they are hardly readable...) Edited July 12, 2019 by CharlieChaplin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 If I understand correctly, the lip on the XE-style cartridges was added primarily to prevent "wobble" when the cartridges were inserted into the back of the 65XE and 130XE computers; the lip gives the rear of the cartridge enough height for it to rest horizontally, supported by the desk surface. This was obviously no longer a problem after the XEGS moved the cartridge port to the top of the console, so Atari switched to the louvered design—which was actually originated during the Warner years, as Curt's prototypes show—although I'm sure they had plenty of leftover XE-style shells even after the release of the XEGS. I've never had the problem of the cartridge edge fingers being too short, but that may well have been a manufacturing issue with some of the later boards; unfortunately, Atari's quality control was all over the place during the Tramiel years. (However, I've definitely had this problem with Activision's 5200 cartridges, which often do not sit deeply enough in the cartridge slot to make a reliable connection.) I agree about removing the Atari logo from the back—an AtariAge logo would look dandy in its place!—and about adding the bumps on either side of the top snap to help square the board inside the shell, without having to resort to the hot glue hack. There is enough clearance for them even inside the XEGS shell, if they're kept small enough, and adding them to the next batch of cartridge boards would still allow these boards to be used in the original 400/800 shells. I've considered designing my own boards which incorporated these features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 35 minutes ago, jaybird3rd said: If I understand correctly, the lip on the XE-style cartridges was added primarily to prevent "wobble" when the cartridges were inserted into the back of the 65XE and 130XE computers Yes, this is most certainly why that lip is there. I also don't like those carts aesthetically, the other style looks much cooler. However, based on my experience with Atari 5200 cartridges, dirt loves to collect in those notches along the sides. Not as noticeable with the lighter color of the XEGS carrts, though. Also, when pulling apart 5200 carts, more stubborn carts can sometimes be...uncomfortable to open because of those notches. As an anecdote regarding cartridge "wobble", a long time ago I ran an Atari 8-bit BBS using Carina II BBS software. I was employing an Atari 800XL for this purpose. I had three cartridges stacked in the machine--an R-Time 8 cart, SpartaDOS X, and finally an Atari Rev. C BASIC cartridge. The BASIC cartridge was necessary as the built-in BASIC had a serious bug where you'd lose some memory every time you loaded a BASIC module. It wouldn't take long at all before the BBS would crash as a result. Anyway, I had to be careful not to bump the cartridge stack or move the machine too abruptly, as this could easily cause the machine to crash. I wish I had photos of this setup, as I had tons of other hardware plugged into that machine as well. So much fun those days were! With my knowledge today, I would have at least replaced the built-in BASIC chip with the one in the Rev. C cart. I didn't really know any better back then! ..Al 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) On 7/11/2019 at 7:04 PM, Mathy said: Hello guys Steven Tucker is selling AtariMax cartridge shells. These do not need screws and can be opened and closed very easily without damaging anything. Later this year, I hope to receive a bunch of these shells so that we have some here in Europe if somebody needs them. Sincerely Mathy PS I attached two pictures of my UltimateCart to illustrate what the AtariMax cartridge shells look like when it's opened. I like these. These are Solakian Mold Co. carts. Such as OSS BXL orange style carts. These may be re-opened easily if you clip the pins a little shorter, or glued in place if you wish. Spec-I and Spec-II used black shells like this. These are NOT through hole type carts. I believe this to be the perfect solution. Edited July 13, 2019 by Kyle22 forgot Solakian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 6:04 PM, Mathy said: Hello guys Steven Tucker is selling AtariMax cartridge shells. These do not need screws and can be opened and closed very easily without damaging anything. Later this year, I hope to receive a bunch of these shells so that we have some here in Europe if somebody needs them. These are interesting shells and I have a sample from Steve in this same color. My main concern is since there are just posts (with increasing diameter as they approach the base) holding the two cart halves in place, these could come apart pretty easily unintentionally. When I fully press the two halves together, it doesn't really require much force to pop them back apart. How long has Steve been using this design? The label area isn't as large as it could be, either. Would have been nice if they used the same label shape/size as Atari's shells. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Hello Kyle22 22 hours ago, Kyle22 said: These may be re-opened easily if you clip the pins a little shorter, or glued in place if you wish. No need to clip the pins shorter, I've opened the AtariMax shells (read: my Ultimate Cart) a couple of times now and it still closes up fine and it stays closed without any help. Sincerely Mathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Hello Albert 22 hours ago, Albert said: My main concern is since there are just posts (with increasing diameter as they approach the base) holding the two cart halves in place, these could come apart pretty easily unintentionally. When I fully press the two halves together, it doesn't really require much force to pop them back apart. How long has Steve been using this design? As I've said to kyle22, I've opened up mine a couple of times now. I don't expect them to come apart by themselves. Maybe if you'd open them a couple of times a week, but who would do that? AFAIK Steven has been using them for some time now. My guess would be 10 years or something like that. Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Mathy said: Hello Kyle22 No need to clip the pins shorter, I've opened the AtariMax shells (read: my Ultimate Cart) a couple of times now and it still closes up fine and it stays closed without any help. Sincerely Mathy Alas, I put my Ultimate cart. pcb from one of the early batches into an Atari XE cart. with small snaps (Taiwan cart.) and when the new firmware (with XEX loading) became available, it was available for two flashchips. In order to find out what flashchip I had and to flash the correct software, I had to open it and take a look at the flashchip - and all snaps did break. Since no glue lasts forever, I still have one Ultimate cart. sitting in two half shells. But I also bought one of the later versions from santosp, which already had the new firmware and so I never needed to open it and the cart shell is fully intact... Besides, the old Epyx carts use a similar design as the one from Steve, they have one screw at the backside (not required!) and four pins that hold the two cart shells together and the pcb in place. Not sure, if both cart versions (there are different ones for ROMs and Eproms) do have these four pins, but all Eprom cart versions do. Evil as I am, I opened the Eprom cart. versions and replaced the Eproms with other games. Think when I opened such an Epyx cart for the very first time, I did break one or two pins, but that never happened again, because I know since then where the pins are. And errmm, these carts are more than 30 years old (Pitstop 1983 = 36 years!) and opening and closing still works fine, if you know how to do it. I do not insert the screw after opening/closing the Epyx cart anymore, since it is absolutely not needed (the case stays fully closed without it and the cart. pcb also stays in place without it, thanks to the four pins which are placed almost at the same points like in Steven's carts - the left and right edges of the cart pcb)... Edited July 14, 2019 by CharlieChaplin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddtmw Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Threre is a cart shell on thingiverse you can print. I haven't printed it ... yet. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3129211 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 We used OSS carts every day. Let's not nit-pick about it.. Who cares? No Biggie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 I have two of Steve’s current-production OSS repro carts. They’re fantastic quality. I wish others (*cough*Lotharek*cough*) had such hiqh-quality shells for the SIDE2 cart. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 7/11/2019 at 3:49 PM, Sikor said: Now I get information about interesting it. Maybe I do other version of opening than in original. And yes - it will be without Atari logo - policy. Interested in 20 or 50 pieces, depending on price AND if they have one or more screw(s) instead of the plastic snaps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred_M Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 This one is probably similar to the one Pirx posted here in 2014. Sadly that links does not work anymore, so I cannot compare. These shells are more generic. Suitable for C64 and XL/XE (I have heard they don't fit in an 1200XL). Not the best option, but certainly cheap! https://www.tme.eu/en/details/z-7/enclosures-with-panel/kradex/z7/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 i found these are quite good too https://www.vesalia.de/e_c64cartshell.htm i have a couple and they fit well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Fred_M said: Not the best option, but certainly cheap! https://www.tme.eu/en/details/z-7/enclosures-with-panel/kradex/z7/ With Z7 shells are some problems in old 65XE - it is too wide. Better is KM-20 (but also too wide for old 65XE): https://www.tme.eu/en/details/abs-20_bk/multipurpose-enclosures/maszczyk/km-20-bk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 (edited) It has to fit 1200XL, 65XE, and the 800. If it's not too wide or not too tall, and doesn't wobble, it's all good. The case that comes with the AVG cart is slightly off and does not stack well until you loosen it's screw. Edited July 15, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Hello Doc 3 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said: It has to fit 1200XL, 65XE, and the 800. If it's not too wide or not too tall, and doesn't wobble, it's all good. Sounds like "AtariMax" to me. Sincerely Mathy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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