Could we do it all over?

[Keatah]

Wouldn't a microSD card scale up nicely or fit into a container just slightly larger than itself? You could built a MicroMachines VCS!

 

And with today's cheap China labor and ability to make cheap SOC I see little impediments to such an idea other than the licensing stuff. If you make enough cartridges even non-nostalgic and non-old-school fans could like it. Just for the cuteness. You could use your iPhone (or other sticks) as a wi-fi controller. And wi-fi the video back to an IOS device or HDMI or whatever.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Keatah

[mipaol]

As much as I would love to see Atari become a major player in the video game industry again, a retro re-release wouldn't really appeal to me because part of the appeal of Atari collecting for me is finding as others have mentioned dusty old caches of the original games and enjoying all the different cartridge types that were made for the 2600 before game cartridges became standardized in later generations. A modern attempt to re-release original spec hardware and games at retail prices would leave me wondering why I should bother when I can simply load Stella onto pretty much any PC from the last twenty years and play roms with a USB 2600 joystick.

 

Another part of game collecting for me is what I call the "historian effect", meaning I enjoy finding these little relics of history and giving them the care and attention they need to keep going and survive on their journey through time so that future generations can enjoy them. In much the same way as one might think of collecting antiques retro games to me are more than mere video games but also little time travelers. When I look at a game I like to think about it's story, was this game purchased as a birthday or Christmas present, did some child of the seventies or early eighties open a box Christmas morning or on their birthday and feel excited to see the very copy of Frogger I'm holding in my hand? Why did the original owner part with it, did they regret giving up the game and have they ever wondered what has become of it, how many other hands has this game passed through on it's way to me, whats the story behind the little tear in the bottom corner of the label, who will inherit this game after I'm gone, could it be that someday a hundred years from now someone will open a box and be excited to see this same copy of Frogger and will they wonder about the history of it just as I have, will they appreciate that I and others before me have each done their part taking care of this game on it's journey to them, helping it to survive when so many other copies have not?

 

A modern remake can never emulate that sort of experience, its just another little relic beginning it's journey into the future.

Edited July 21, 2014 by mipaol

[Bill Loguidice]

While I never like to lump myself into any category of buyer since I generally buy anything and everything I can (in other words, I don't count as a typical buyer of anything in this category), based on how much I'm enjoying Hyperkin's approach with the RetroN 5, I think to me that would be the ideal approach to a new Atari 2600, i.e., make it a multi-console system that achieves its wonderful results - including crystal clear HDMI upscaling - through "off-the-shelf" emulation. There's already sufficient Android emulation for most of the classic Atari, Mattel, Coleco, and Magnavox systems, so there really wouldn't be any issue other than recreating the respective cartridge and controller ports. It's my understanding that Hyperkin already nixed the idea, but, assuming the Intellivision and ColecoVision Flashbacks sell in sufficient numbers (and successors come out), and the official digital efforts do well, it suddenly may become a viable undertaking, even at $199 per system.

 

To summarize, I'm all for bringing back/recreating the old stuff worth doing so, but I think we should always try to do it whenever possible in deference to modern needs/sensibilities. We already have sufficient supply of the old stuff.

[freewheel]

If you're gonna use emulation, it's a pretty small market that's gonna care about using the original carts. That horse got out of the barn eons ago. I kinda think that beyond us collector/retro nerds, the only people who'd buy a Retron are those who don't realize that it's basically an Ouya. Or a Wii, or an Xbox. Or a PC from 10 years ago. Or any of a dozen other setups fully-capable of 8 and 16 bit emulation.

 

Heck, is anyone even attempting enforcement of the massive 2600 collection everyone always links to?

[Bill Loguidice]

If you're gonna use emulation, it's a pretty small market that's gonna care about using the original carts. That horse got out of the barn eons ago. I kinda think that beyond us collector/retro nerds, the only people who'd buy a Retron are those who don't realize that it's basically an Ouya. Or a Wii, or an Xbox. Or a PC from 10 years ago. Or any of a dozen other setups fully-capable of 8 and 16 bit emulation.

 

Again, if the goal is to use real cartridges and real accessories on a modern HDTV, then the RetroN 5 approach works extremely well. And of course the market is small for this. Those of us who own original hardware, original cartridges, etc., is a minuscule niche of overall videogame players, so it will always be a small market. The advantage of the RetroN approach over an Ouya is that it's dedicated to its purpose, so is specifically optimized for playing the games on the systems it supports. This includes being able to use the original controllers. The advantage of the Ouya is that even though it can't use cartridge, there are no restrictions on it using ROMs, which obviously the RetroN 5 lacks.

[Keatah]

On of the seemingly unspoken advantages and driving forces of and behind emulation is hardware independence. No dedicated stuff required. My old 486 can do some emulation. But any PC, any brand, coming after the 486 could serve as the hardware framework for running VCS games and all the other systems.

 

In the future we may need a virtual machine because of changing OS amenities afforded the guest program. But the concept remains the same.

 

I also prefer to buy mainstream "stuff" and customize it to my purpose rather than buying something custom made. The plus mark here is mainstream "stuff" tends to have more standards and those standards change less frequently over time. And parts (whether new, used, recycled) are available longer and are easier to get.

 

Custom FPGA emulation stunts - to me - are just that. One man stunts. Whereas I'll be able to buy parts for my emulation pc years and years in to the future. If not, then I'll be able to migrate to totally new hardware.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Keatah

[freewheel]

Hmm, original controllers. I forgot that the Retron systems allow that. Although ironically many of us more dedicated gamers search high and wide for alternatives, due to so many original controllers being shite.

[Bill Loguidice]

Hmm, original controllers. I forgot that the Retron systems allow that. Although ironically many of us more dedicated gamers search high and wide for alternatives, due to so many original controllers being shite.

 

In the case of the RetroN, the NES, Genesis, and SNES controllers that it supports are actually quite good, plus you can use any of them (or the crappy RetroN bluetooth controller) for any of the other system's games. With a hypothetical RetroN Vintage, the wealth of Atari-style joysticks would be on the table, which already would give it a metric ton of options. Further, that's a relatively easy standard to create a new controller for, or even adapt other controllers to. In any case, the only downside to using these classic controllers is that most of them aren't wireless, which is something of a problem unless you're close enough to the TV.

[AtariLeaf]

Wow no love for the first 8 (and similar early) cartridges like Air Sea Battle or Casino or even Flag Capture! These were the definitive titles of the era. These titles were the memory makers!

 

Indy 500 and Video Olympics are both great games, Combat too I guess

[AtariLeaf]

A 2600/5200/7800/Intellivision/Colecovision version of a Retron would be great. I'd be on board as long as paddle control works. That would be a must.

[cybercylon]

 

In the case of the RetroN, the NES, Genesis, and SNES controllers that it supports are actually quite good, plus you can use any of them (or the crappy RetroN bluetooth controller) for any of the other system's games. With a hypothetical RetroN Vintage, the wealth of Atari-style joysticks would be on the table, which already would give it a metric ton of options. Further, that's a relatively easy standard to create a new controller for, or even adapt other controllers to. In any case, the only downside to using these classic controllers is that most of them aren't wireless, which is something of a problem unless you're close enough to the TV.

There are plenty of good controllers to cover those post-crash system, but if someone were to make a pre-crash system, there is a definite controller issue. Okay... you can find decent one for the 2600, but if said system were to also play 5200 games and 7800 games, it's going to need to be bundled with a decent controller. If you add Intellivision and Colecovision into the mix, who wants to use those hand cramping ergonomic disasters?

[freewheel]

I would buy a Retron just to have a good, usable INTV/Coleco controller. No matter what I try there just isn't anything "perfect". Y-cabling included. Especially with so many games needlessly using the number pad and ignoring the fire buttons. A re-mappable controller would be amazing.

 

And yeah, to finally have a decent 5200 controller.. droooool.

[Andromeda Stardust]

For controller design, a modern analog thumbstick would make an excellent substitute for both the 5200 analog stick and the 16-way intellivion disc. Dpad would be included for digital games that don't need analog precision. Standard features such as dual L/R triggers or four action buttons could be employed to handle the side triggers on the 5200, intellivision, and coleco. Basically any modern dual stick controller would work. Just add a 12-key numeric pad in the center of the controller and all your bases are covered. Think Jag pad with less bulk. Obviously there would be issues with incompatible wiring between systems, so sadly the clone controller would likely be have to be proprietary to the clone, and possibly also employ BT wireless for convenience.

[atarilovesyou]

Here's the thing about emulation: if it plays like the Flashback 2 does, then I'm in. If it doesn't, then why bother. And controllers are everything. Who gives a rat's patoot if you can 'play' Kaboom! with a joystick?...it's like tits on a bull. Somewhat interesting to look at for about 30 seconds

 

Somebody mentioned a good point about vinyl records. I got back into vinyl about seven years ago, and have watched the market turn from brand new vinyl (with a digital download) for around 20 bux to today's 30 and up (and even that without the download). People who want it will pay.

 

But you gotta really want it. I'm not even sure I would want it! Basically, we had our chance with the Flashback 2. I enjoyed that while it lasted, but retro systems have moved on.

[AAA177]

Sorry I've been away from the thread I started. Been a bit busy.

 

Thanks for all these replies, I really appreciate it. I am going to think more about this. There are definitely some cons to this concept as many have pointed out. Everyone has brought up excellent points.

 

I want to mention that I love that someone brought up "Walking Distance." I too love that "Twilight Zone" episode. And yes, I guess it is sort of what I want. (But what was the line, everyone only has one summer?)

 

And about the historian aspect of finding games...I agree, you summarized the meaning of collecting pretty well. For me, though, the number-one thing is playing the game, I sort of find the process of hunting down a game pretty tough, I am not that good at it. I'll tell you this too as an unrelated aside -- don't know if this has been done before, but I had two ideas for short film scripts centering on collecting. One would be about a game that changes hands a countless number of times until it reaches the one person who wants to play the game; he pays top price, but when he opens the box, it's empty. The second idea centered on a sealed game that also changed hands a number of times...when it was finally opened, it releases a disease that spreads around the country. Maybe I'll write them someday...anyway, thanks again for the discussion.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

And about the historian aspect of finding games...I agree, you summarized the meaning of collecting pretty well. For me, though, the number-one thing is playing the game, I sort of find the process of hunting down a game pretty tough, I am not that good at it. I'll tell you this too as an unrelated aside -- don't know if this has been done before, but I had two ideas for short film scripts centering on collecting. One would be about a game that changes hands a countless number of times until it reaches the one person who wants to play the game; he pays top price, but when he opens the box, it's empty. The second idea centered on a sealed game that also changed hands a number of times...when it was finally opened, it releases a disease that spreads around the country. Maybe I'll write them someday...anyway, thanks again for the discussion.

How about a story of a post-apocalyptic wasteland similar to Disney's Wall-e or Tim Burton's "9". The little robot unearths a collection of Atari/Nintendo/whatever games and begins playing them.

Edited July 27, 2014 by stardust4ever

[Mockduck]

This needs to happen. The world needs more E.T. carts.

 

Seriously, though, I just don't see how this effort could support itself financially. It would have to be a small group run, and everyone who wanted one would be in on the ground floor. Perhaps this could work, though, through something like Kickstarter? Essentially it'd be a one-off run based on backer support.

[Andromeda Stardust]

This needs to happen. The world needs more E.T. carts.

 

Seriously, though, I just don't see how this effort could support itself financially. It would have to be a small group run, and everyone who wanted one would be in on the ground floor. Perhaps this could work, though, through something like Kickstarter? Essentially it'd be a one-off run based on backer support.

I for one, would rather see a continual supply of new homebrews than reissues of old games. There is still a healthy supply of old Atari games, even sealed copies of many games are not hard to come by. I mean, $25 and under for most sealed titles currently is less than the cost to make new ones, and that is not factoring in licensing/copyright issues. If a demand for new games still existed then the NOS materials would have dried up long ago. It hasn't yet.

[Keatah]

To answer the OP's thread title question directly -- Would we want to?

[freewheel]

I for one, would rather see a continual supply of new homebrews than reissues of old games. There is still a healthy supply of old Atari games, even sealed copies of many games are not hard to come by. I mean, $25 and under for most sealed titles currently is less than the cost to make new ones, and that is not factoring in licensing/copyright issues. If a demand for new games still existed then the NOS materials would have dried up long ago. It hasn't yet.

 

Agreed x100000. If we as a community are going to spend actual money on new stuff, I'd rather that money go to the talented devs who produce homebrew. Spending tens (maybe hundreds?) of thousands of dollars towards releasing something that already exists in far greater numbers than will ever be consumed? I'd much rather pay a few guys a bunch of money to create even more homebrew.

 

Again, I really don't mean to shit on the idea of this original thread, but I just don't quite understand who this is aimed at. The general public is uninterested in Atari, and of those few that are, they either pick up a Flashback which is more than good enough for them, or they grab a used one and play it for 2 weeks before putting it back into the attic (and end up selling it to me 2 years later, if history is any guide). While a lot of us collectors will go hog-wild and buy damn near anything Atari-related, I just don't see what "need" this is covering. We've got plenty of original consoles and games, enough to last a lifetime.

 

I dunno, this just smells like people making repro carts and charging more than a multicart. I just saw someone selling Earthbound and similar "rare" repros for over $100. You can buy an Everdrive for less than that! What the hell is the point? To have a label? I guess my main objection is that this basic idea serves no practical purpose other than to (in theory) make money off collector mania, much like those repros. It's not addressing some unfulfilled need to either the hobby community nor the general public.

 

We could do a lot better things with our money. IMHO.