Jinks Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Feature creep has killed a good many projects. Sure they are nice things to have but you've got to draw the line somewhere. The more features get added, the higher the price point, the fewer people buy who it, and the less the market share, the less motivated homebrew programmers will be to write games for it. A simple piggyback unit for $75 would have sold far more and gotten more support as a result than a bloated device selling for $150. I may buy an XM eventually but it's a hard sell for many at it's current price point. The yamaha chip and sio idea was I think there from pretty much the get go. And for my 79 bucks it is a bargin. It is not really bloated to me. Hell lots of people sell carts with boxes etc for 70 bucks all day long. It is what it is. I think the HSC and the pokey will be the main draw as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 No, you did not figure it out, the SIO port was never present on 7800's. Mine has one. I mostly use it for watching Mork from Ork in 160p on my laserdisc player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Defender_2600 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 For those who missed this: "...The Atari 7800 keyboard has several connection ports on the back of the keyboard allowing it to use standard Atari SIO devices and also use off the shelf generic cassette data recorders for loading and storing data. ..." http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/7800/7800keyboard.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Mine has one. I mostly use it for watching Mork from Ork in 160p on my laserdisc player. Just to be clear, the Expansion Interface on the early 7800's is NOT an Atari-standard SIO port. I know, because my 7800 has an Expansion Interface. Edited June 10, 2015 by DrVenkman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The SIO and XEGS keyboard ports are key to something I'd like to do when it's ready for primetime...whenever that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 The yamaha chip and sio idea was I think there from pretty much the get go. Always thought both were very much overkill. I mean, the Yamaha just feels like it's from the WRONG GENERATION, something more suitable to the SNES and up, not the 7800. At best we should have had a SID chip... As for SIO, I guess it makes it work with some other Atari devices.. but, again, not remotely a 'must have' idea either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Always thought both were very much overkill. I mean, the Yamaha just feels like it's from the WRONG GENERATION, something more suitable to the SNES and up, not the 7800. At best we should have had a SID chip... As for SIO, I guess it makes it work with some other Atari devices.. but, again, not remotely a 'must have' idea either.Nothing ever is must have. Just for the hell of it is alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Nothing ever is must have. Just for the hell of it is alright. Yeah, but to be blunt... it's currently a 'nobody has'... and quite a few of the delays have been to these rather excessive additions and constant revisions. There's a REASON that the key to engineering is 'K.I.S.S.', after all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Always thought both were very much overkill. I mean, the Yamaha just feels like it's from the WRONG GENERATION, something more suitable to the SNES and up, not the 7800. At best we should have had a SID chip... As for SIO, I guess it makes it work with some other Atari devices.. but, again, not remotely a 'must have' idea either. Hi... The 2155 sound chip was in the Atari System 1 & 2 arcade boards around the time when the 7800 was sitting in Atari's back room doors. It's perfect for those who still like to mess around with the old YM FM chip. It certainly would've giving the old SID a run for it's money; it was probably more expensive to have them back then, but it certainly would've given Atari the upper hand on bringing the arcade experience home. The Sega Master System in Japan had a lesser version of the sound chip and it sound great. I think Atari just didn't want to deal with the Japanese because they were in direct competition with them between 84 to 86. Didn't mean to get off topic, but just had to get my two-cents. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 But you didn't exactly see the other machines at the time push that far. As you said, the SMS had a less chip, and the NES wasn't much better than a Pokey. The SID would have been a bit overkill, but at least the C64 was roughly a contemporary machine to compare with. I just don't see even a successful-at-the-time Atari put such a chip in an XP for the 7800... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 As you said, the SMS had a less chip, and the NES wasn't much better than a Pokey. As a huge fan of NES chip-tunes, I resent that remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Always thought both were very much overkill. I mean, the Yamaha just feels like it's from the WRONG GENERATION, something more suitable to the SNES and up, not the 7800. At best we should have had a SID chip... As for SIO, I guess it makes it work with some other Atari devices.. but, again, not remotely a 'must have' idea either. Disagree. The Yamaha YM2151 was used in Atari Games arcade machines from 1984 on. Atari Games, previously Atari Coin, chose the YM2151 because Atari Inc's AMY sound chip wasn't completed. And after Atari Corp couldn't finish the AMY and thus couldn't include it in time for the ST, Yamaha wouldn't sell the YM2151 to Atari Corp for use in the Atari ST computer because it was going to be a competitor to Yamaha's own MSX based MIDI Music Computers. Aside from most of the arcade machines of the era, the YM2151 ended up being used in the Sharp X68000 computer in Japan. The Sega Genesis YM audio chip is inferior to the YM2151. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My 8 bit friends say for the sio jack contact Steve Tucker at atarimax may have had some made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keitaro Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Asides XM progresses, I tried to contact by his web page because I lost my order email, but no answer for now. Is there an e-mail or another form of contact to check the order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Disagree. The Yamaha YM2151 was used in Atari Games arcade machines from 1984 on. And we're talking about an XP for a 1984 home gaming unit.. my point is that Atari would not have had a Yahama chip for the 7800 at all, much less it being a cornerstone component that would delay the unit by several years. Even if they were willing to spend the money, there's just no way that they would justify it for a home console machine. Arcade machines are a completely different beast. Also, the next big revolution in 'home game sound' would be the MIDI standards as adopted by AdLib, and it would be a few years yet before the AdLib standard would catch on and be included in game machines... the SNES generation. Edited June 10, 2015 by Jaynz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 My 8 bit friends say for the sio jack contact Steve Tucker at atarimax may have had some made. Hopefully that's not who Curt already talked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Hopefully that's not who Curt already talked to.Probably is. If Curt cleaned those guys out of their aftermarket SIO connectors, they would be unable to sell their USB2SIO boards. The XEGS / 8-bit market is distinct from the 7800 so it doesn't make a difference to them if Curt can secure a supply of SIO connectors or not. Secondly, if people wanted mess around with keyboards and disk drives and other peripherals, they could get an 8-bit or XEGS personal computer. Game consoles are attractive for their simplicity and designed to do one thing really well, that is play games. KISS principal, folks, as one poster put it. Keep It Simple & Sexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPUWIZ Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 K.I.S.S. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian O Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 K.I.S.S. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 K.I.S.S. I saw that coming a mile away... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutsy Doodleheimer Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 K.I.S.S. I so knew someone was going to post that! Great one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) K.I.S.S. Wrong lineup, though: Edited June 10, 2015 by PacManPlus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaynz Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I oddly feel the need to blow up a school... wonder why that is. At any rate, now that we've hashed THAT out. Have we seen any new 'expect it by X' posts now that June's obviously been missed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I oddly feel the need to blow up a school... wonder why that is. At any rate, now that we've hashed THAT out. Have we seen any new 'expect it by X' posts now that June's obviously been missed? I read the Facebook feed (well what part of it I could without a login) and seem to recall Curt mentioning the XM would be ready by the end of Spring. Well Summer officially starts in less than two weeks, and with the problem securing the SIO ports, I wager that it is unlikely to be ready by then. Just a hunch... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybingo Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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