tep392 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I had really hoped to be farther along at this point but I only have time to work on the BIOS over lunch. I'm super busy with work and home life during the rest of the day. One big thing that has slowed this project down is Groovybee's refusal to give us the code he's written for the XM and refusal to respond to our PM's. He's been a big fucking baby since I started working on it, which was only necessary because he stopped working on it. He seems to have the attention span of a kindergartner. So instead of just finishing up the BIOS, I have had to spend time figuring out the system requirements by reading thru long e-mail chains between Curt and the developers as well as disassembling the BIOS ROM. It's interesting how he is so possessive of the BIOS after borrowing so heavily from RMT, HSC BIOS and 7800 PAL BIOS. But I suppose that has made it easier to trace his code. Anyhow, I'll try to give updates from time to time. Don't hesitate to ask for one if it's been a while. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I had really hoped to be farther along at this point but I only have time to work on the BIOS over lunch. I'm super busy with work and home life during the rest of the day. One big thing that has slowed this project down is Groovybee's refusal to give us the code he's written for the XM and refusal to respond to our PM's. He's been a big fucking baby since I started working on it, which was only necessary because he stopped working on it. He seems to have the attention span of a kindergardner. So instead of just finishing up the BIOS, I have had to spend time figuring out the system requirements by reading thru long e-mail chains between Curt and the developers as well as disassembling the BIOS ROM. It's interesting how he is so posessive of the BIOS after borrowing so heavily from RMT, HSC BIOS and 7800 PAL BIOS. But I suppose that has made it easier to trace his code. Anyhow, I'll try to give updates from time to time. Don't hesitate to ask for one if it's been a while. Sorry to read about the lack of cooperation from Groovybee. Regardless, thank you for your continued efforts and diligence, Perry. It is appreciated. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 He's been a big fucking baby He seems to have the attention span of a kindergardner. BRB taking money from people years ago for games that aren't even programmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxpro Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) I had really hoped to be farther along at this point but I only have time to work on the BIOS over lunch. I'm super busy with work and home life during the rest of the day. One big thing that has slowed this project down is Groovybee's refusal to give us the code he's written for the XM and refusal to respond to our PM's. He's been a big fucking baby since I started working on it, which was only necessary because he stopped working on it. He seems to have the attention span of a kindergardner. So instead of just finishing up the BIOS, I have had to spend time figuring out the system requirements by reading thru long e-mail chains between Curt and the developers as well as disassembling the BIOS ROM. It's interesting how he is so posessive of the BIOS after borrowing so heavily from RMT, HSC BIOS and 7800 PAL BIOS. But I suppose that has made it easier to trace his code. Anyhow, I'll try to give updates from time to time. Don't hesitate to ask for one if it's been a while. It would be interesting to read what caused him to abandon the project. It sounds as if he was nearly complete with the project 5 years ago. But the better question is, why haven't XBoards been manufactured during this time to make up for this gap? Combine it with a Concerto SD Cart and you have all of the XM's features except for SIO [if you add the PIA], XEGS keyboard port, and the YM2151. You'd still have 128K RAM and not just 1 POKEY, but 2. Sure, most owners would have to desolder the MARIA in their 7800s but the same people these upgrades appeal to are the same ones who aren't shy about doing such mods themselves or hiring someone else to do them for them. Note: I am not anti-XM in the least but I'd still like to see more XBoard options available. And on the 5200 side, we need a 5200 XM! Internal installation though with that since there's enough room inside to fit an Eye of Harmony inside there too. Edited March 14, 2016 by Lynxpro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lendorien Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) I had really hoped to be farther along at this point but I only have time to work on the BIOS over lunch. I'm super busy with work and home life during the rest of the day. One big thing that has slowed this project down is Groovybee's refusal to give us the code he's written for the XM and refusal to respond to our PM's. He's been a big fucking baby since I started working on it, which was only necessary because he stopped working on it. He seems to have the attention span of a kindergardner. So instead of just finishing up the BIOS, I have had to spend time figuring out the system requirements by reading thru long e-mail chains between Curt and the developers as well as disassembling the BIOS ROM. It's interesting how he is so posessive of the BIOS after borrowing so heavily from RMT, HSC BIOS and 7800 PAL BIOS. But I suppose that has made it easier to trace his code. Anyhow, I'll try to give updates from time to time. Don't hesitate to ask for one if it's been a while. Well I have to say that this was enlightening. It explains part of why we've been sitting here waiting so long. Groovybee bailed like 2 years ago. Whether he's having personality conflicts with Curt or whatever, it would be a nice gesture to the community for him to be kind and help you out. I don't know what happened but the truth is, people relied on his work and forcing you to start from scratch just sucks, personality or creative differences or not. THAT SAID, Communication on this project has always been terrible. Even regular monthly updates would be welcome over the prolonged silence for half a year at a time. People paid real money. I think it's only just that they know what's going on, even if it's bad news. I'm willing to wait for mine though. I paid for it 5 years ago. From my point of view, the money is already gone, so I'm not as invested in if it ends up being vapourware. (It's been so long that the money really has ceased to be an issue for me). I had fun watching it trundle along and go off the tracks. I'll have more fun if and when I finally get it. Edited March 14, 2016 by Lendorien 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I hope to see the project get completed one day. I have waited years for this, with infrequent updates on progress. It frankly has not been handled well at all truth be told. I know that there have been alot of issues with this project, but would like to see better communication with this moving forward. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I posted updates in early Dec15 and late Jan16. That's not too bad. I'll post more as there is more progress. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 It all makes sense now that the xm was never finished . If Groovybee was behind it then it would never come out just like the multiple homebrews that will never come out that he talked about for 7 years for the 7800 . Those poor guys in the Intellivision threads have faith in him even though he is doing the same thing with a bunch of homebrews and a multi cart . And nobody can question him and he gives no answers . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 It all makes sense now that the xm was never finished . If Groovybee was behind it then it would never come out just like the multiple homebrews that will never come out that he talked about for 7 years . Those poor guys in the Intellivision threads have faith in him even though he is doing the same thing with a bunch of homebrews and a multi cart . And nobody can question him and he gives no answers . He took money for those games before they were even completed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but money is not required for programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desiv Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Correct me if I'm wrong, but money is not required for programming. Speaking as one who is currently managing programmers, I'd say that is wrong.. desiv 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Speaking as one who is currently managing programmers, I'd say that is wrong.. desiv What I mean is if you are a hobbyist programming retro games money isn't required up front before the job is even started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 But who is even gonna program a game and use the xm's capabilities if it ever did come out ? Well there's DK XM and Beef Drop VE which have already been developed and released, and will technically run with or without the XM, but only with TIA sound in the case of Beef Drop and no audio in the case of DK. But those exact ROMs could just be planted on a CPUWIZ board with a donor Pokey or Hokey chip, and work without the giant 32X-ish tumor growing out of the 7800. I had really hoped to be farther along at this point but I only have time to work on the BIOS over lunch. I'm super busy with work and home life during the rest of the day. One big thing that has slowed this project down is Groovybee's refusal to give us the code he's written for the XM and refusal to respond to our PM's. He's been a big fucking baby since I started working on it, which was only necessary because he stopped working on it. He seems to have the attention span of a kindergardner. So instead of just finishing up the BIOS, I have had to spend time figuring out the system requirements by reading thru long e-mail chains between Curt and the developers as well as disassembling the BIOS ROM. It's interesting how he is so posessive of the BIOS after borrowing so heavily from RMT, HSC BIOS and 7800 PAL BIOS. But I suppose that has made it easier to trace his code. Anyhow, I'll try to give updates from time to time. Don't hesitate to ask for one if it's been a while. I have his two released AA 7800 homebrews which are nice but nothing to write home about. Ashame he left the project. If I was leaving a project, I would relinquish all documentation and code I had worked on to the guys currently running it. That said, I don't think the BIOS is the only thing holding the 7800XM back. Curt for one has not been fulfilling orders from his website or responding to PMs and has had health issues and other delays. The whole thing stinks at this point and I would question the usefulness of developing a homebrew 32X style addon hardware for an old game console that never really penetrated the market. 7800XM would only become a niche device for a niche console, and with homebrews being developed exclusively for the XM, will fragment the market. Homebrew games cater to collectors/owners of the original hardware, but the XM, if released, will always have a much smaller install base compared to the stock hardware. Why artificially limit the audience of your homebrew game, when Hokeys or extra RAM can be included inside the cart for a few dollars extra, and released without the need for the ginormous XM add-on? That only leaves the Yamaha and high score cart remaining that can't be handled by existing in cart hardware. Do we really need the Yamaha sound for an 8-bit console? Sounds like overkill to me. And a HSC replacement (lock on PCB in a sawed off cart shell is all you need) would probably have been released by now if not for waiting for this possibly vaporware 7800XM. One thing I can say however, is the 7800XM has gone through working prototypes, which is more than the Chameleon ever had. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammR25 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 What I mean is if you are a hobbyist programming retro games money isn't required up front before the job is even started. It is for some https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/batslyadams/super-russian-roulette-a-new-party-game-for-the-ne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I guess I set a bad example by slamming groovybee here. If you want to debate the XM please start another thread or find one where it is in topic. Thank you. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 It is for some https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/batslyadams/super-russian-roulette-a-new-party-game-for-the-ne More people need to back this. I want my NSF salon # $70k stretch goal, dammit! I'm starting to regret not backing the CIB version. If I change my backing amount now, I won't get in on an early-bird shipment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dauber Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) *deleted* *misunderstood original context* *understand now* *vote Quimby* Edited March 15, 2016 by Dauber 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 More people need to back this. I want my NSF salon # $70k stretch goal, dammit! I'm starting to regret not backing the CIB version. If I change my backing amount now, I won't get in on an early-bird shipment. The game does look pretty laid back like "Root Beer Tapper" or something to that nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 The game does look pretty laid back like "Root Beer Tapper" or something to that nature. Yeah and since it only reads the trigger on the zapper so you can play it with an HDTV. I think you can also use buttons too, but you'll miss out on a special Easter Egg that relies on light detection. As for beer tapper, if you like Tapper, I recommend the NES homebrew Beer Slinger by greetingcarts/retroscribe. He had a shop on Etsy but it appears to be gone now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I had really hoped to be farther along at this point but I only have time to work on the BIOS over lunch. I'm super busy with work and home life during the rest of the day. One big thing that has slowed this project down is Groovybee's refusal to give us the code he's written for the XM and refusal to respond to our PM's. .... Damn! Sorry to hear this. Last I heard it was stated that GroovyBee was back on board. I even sent a private thank you message to him! He wrote the #1 Intellivision game for 2015 (unless that fact was a joke), and already had taken pre-order money for games not finished or shipped. There are too many talented hardware / software hobbiests that get way off track and end up disappointing others.l, mostly due to lack of communication or information. We understand things happen, but let those invested know status from time to time. People who feel burned or ripped off or left in the dark are going to stop placing risky orders. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBomber Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I guess I set a bad example by slamming groovybee here. If you want to debate the XM please start another thread or find one where it is in topic. Thank you.Hardly your fault. There is just a lot of frustration around this project. Your update was a big improvement over the false promises and peevish attitude we usually get. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I think "no news" is the big annoyance to most people here anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I think "no news" is the big annoyance to most people here anyway. Ditto. It's also fun to be still hanging around in the Chameleon thread and watching it go off-topic on a daily basis. Still some positives in the aftermath, with Carl Williams aka Triverse getting Retro and Coleco fielding suggestions for the mini arcades. Sadly the opposite is true with the XM. I imagine we'd already have Game Genie style "high score carts" being recreated and on the market by now if it weren't for XM dragging on. We do have boards with extra RAM and bankswitching, and we will be getting a Pokey replacement. The AtariVox was an example of an addon done right. None of the supported games explicitly require it to operate, but you get a nice bonus when plugged in with supported games. I wish the same could be said of the XM project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Ditto. It's also fun to be still hanging around in the Chameleon thread and watching it go off-topic on a daily basis. Still some positives in the aftermath, with Carl Williams aka Triverse getting Retro and Coleco fielding suggestions for the mini arcades. Sadly the opposite is true with the XM. I imagine we'd already have Game Genie style "high score carts" being recreated and on the market by now if it weren't for XM dragging on. We do have boards with extra RAM and bankswitching, and we will be getting a Pokey replacement. The AtariVox was an example of an addon done right. None of the supported games explicitly require it to operate, but you get a nice bonus when plugged in with supported games. I wish the same could be said of the XM project. No reason a game can't be written to work with or without the XM. You assume too much. In fact, I have already made an update of Pac-man Collection that supports both TIA and POKEY! Froggie was also written to support both TIA and POKEY. I'll repeat what I said before. You arguments regarding the merit of the XM are off topic. Please take it elsewhere. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 (edited) Post deleted. Edited March 15, 2016 by Kosmic Stardust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 True, and the Beef Drop game I mentioned earlier. But once the Pokey replacements get out, these could easily be thrown on a cart as is. We have PCBs compatible with extra RAM and Pokey, so why make something XM exclusive when a few bucks worth of parts can stuff the hardware inside the cart instead and make it compatible with a stock 7800 and much wider audience? edit: original post deleted. I'm done with this off topic discussion. In fact, I really don't like arguing with people. It's not what I come to Atari age for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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