tep392 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 See post #151 quoting Curt's Facebook post. Don't expect any more updates people. I do find it strange that Marty would not expect people to be losing their patience when the pre-orders were paid for so many years ago, or that he would expect the book to take priority. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg2600 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The 7800 homebrew scene has been very active in recent years, and I only see it getting better. Pacmanplus has cranked out a ton of high quality titles and he's still going strong. The guy is a programming madman. With the 7800 version of Batari Basic being released, removing the assembly language barrier, I think we will see the number of releases going up. There will be plenty of titles released which could take advantage of the new hardware. Are you saying Donkey Kong XM was never released? The 100+ people I have sent carts to might disagree. Glad to hear of the possibilities! My point was still that making a new game from scratch is time consuming. PacManPlus is still working on Bentley Bear. The SGM MSX ports happen much quicker. Oops on DK XM, I think I was thinking of Opcode's version, which stalled, and his SGM (Coleco) entry that also stopped. Marty should be ashamed. The "vitriol" here has been centered on two points. First, that Curt does not properly update the invested parties on issues/progress. Second, that the project is YEARS over due date, and again, due to TERRIBLE communication, rumors and aggravation persist. The buyers/collectors here didn't cause this hoopla, the 7800XM team did. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I don't know Marty, and I only know Curt from the forums either. Maybe that Marty is only involved in the books himself, and thus only really interested in them? Or to go to the basics of caqpitalism: The book may just have a much larger chance of turning in a profit. Maybe sales for the first one went really well. Again I feel kind of relieved I did not order an XM. I'd feel like I was being made the bad guy for asking when I read posts like Mr Goldman's. Still have to track down a 7800 actually, they are becoming more expensive here.^^ As an outsider, what I see is Curt, who started a very ambitious project; I see him having health issues, and members here being extremely understanding about that. Yet of course, people ask for updates. On the other side I see the pointless denying of regular public updates that could help keep ALL customers informed at once with just a SINGLE POST once in a while instead of countless personal mails. Even if there is not much to say. And I see not-understanding that this information-policy is the root of rumors and unhappiness for customers who had proven great trust in paying up-front. It is really a big drama coming from inability to understand the customers' basic wishes. Edited January 7, 2015 by 108 Stars 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacManPlus Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) What is clear is that Bob developed a game with the stock 7800 in mind, adding the optional improved Sound, but not using the graphical improvements possible because of the XM. Groovy clearly goes the other route, and wants to do games that look like nothing on the 7800. Both are valid approaches, and in the end, it is the fans that decide if the improved Quality the XM offers is worth supporting by buying XM-mandatory carts. From what I understand about the XM, it offers two sound choices (Pokey and Yamaha), HSC capability, and memory. There are no hardware routines that "help" with graphics of any kind. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). So there is no way to "develop" especially for the XM (and even if there was I wouldn't have been able to without it). Granted, you can do more with more memory to throw at the Display Lists, but that's about it (That's already been done in some original run games with on-board memory). If GB has some tricks that he's learned/created that he keeps to himself (which I don't doubt) that's a whole different story. Edited January 7, 2015 by PacManPlus 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 To clear up any misconceptions of what the XM does or brings to the table regarding the 7800, next to the 7800's contemporary, the Famicom/NES, regarding expansion of their respective system, ‘XM Expansion Module and Nintendo cartridge hardware’, compares this way... Sound:7800 XM: POKEY (4-channels with separate frequency, noise and voice level), YM2151 (8-channel, 4-operator FM Synthesis).Nintendo carts: NAMCO 163 (8 additional sound channels that play wavetable samples), Sunsoft 5B (Provides YM2149F - variant of AY-3-8910), VRC6 (2 additional pulse waves, and 1 additional sawtooth), VRC7 (Provides YM2413 - 6-channel, 2-operator FM Synthesis), MMC5 (2 additional square waves). Graphics:7800 XM: N/A (Does not enhance or change the abilities of the MARIA/7800 graphics chip).*Nintendo carts (partial listing): MMC3 (Adds a scanline based IRQ counter - assist playfield to scroll and other mid-screen effects), MMC5 (Assist vertical split screen scrolling; Instead of 256 makes 16,384 different tiles per screen, greatly increases color capacity/ability of graphic tiles). Saving:7800 XM: HSC compatible support/harnessed for possible save game support.Nintendo carts: MMC4 (Battery backed SRAM), MMC1A, MMC1B1, MMC1B2, MMC1B3, MMC1C (Battery based save game support with memory protection). Memory:7800 XM: 128KB (1024k) RAM.Nintendo carts (partial listing): 16KB (128k) thru 512KB (4096k) PRG ROM, 8KB (64k) thru 256KB (2048k) CHR RAM or ROM, 64KB (512k) thru 256KB (2048k) AxROM (Adds to PRG ROM). *EDIT: If something "official" is announced regarding the (final) XM enhancing the 7800 graphics, it would be great to know. *EDIT2: Fixed memory conversion details. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iesposta Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) From what I understarnd about the XM, it offers two sound choices (Pokey and Yamaha), HSC capability, and memory. There are no hardware routines that "help" with graphics of any kind. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). ...Hardware scrolling and more started to "feature creep" into the design, that's why it was announced that version 3 was being rolled back to 2.5 to keep it simple and ship the product. Or something along those lines. Who can remember? Edited January 7, 2015 by iesposta 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
108 Stars Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 From what I understand about the XM, it offers two sound choices (Pokey and Yamaha), HSC capability, and memory. There are no hardware routines that "help" with graphics of any kind. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). So there is no way to "develop" especially for the XM (and even if there was I wouldn't have been able to without it). Granted, you can do more with more memory to throw at the Display Lists, but that's about it (That's already been done in some original run games with on-board memory). If GB has some tricks that he's learned/created that he keeps to himself (which I don't doubt) that's a whole different story. It may very well be because of the RAM. More extensive animation, bigger diversity of graphics on-screen, 320 mode pretty much all the time, one game had a 256 color title screen, another one had more than 80 colors simultaneously in-game, multi directional scrolling... I take this from an article I wrote in German just after the event where Mark showed me the XM in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hardware scrolling and more started to "feature creep" into the design, that's why it was announced that version 3 was being rolled back to 2.5 to keep it simple and ship the product. Or something along those lines. Who can remember? Not sure of all the details, but there was indeed other features: "May 27th - As most have heard, I'm finally feeling better and I've gone back to work on the XM, sadly my partner on this project - Mark (Groovybee) has moved onto some other work and is no longer involved in the XM it would seem. Mark has been great, he's been a real champion in helping on this project, but it has been a very long process and we all do these things for the love of the hobby, no one is obligated to stay on a project. However the Rev 3 design was based on idea's and features Mark wanted to incorporate into the XM design, and the BIOS is all Mark's work. Without Mark's involvement I cannot implement the logic he wanted to put into the design since I don't know what he wanted to lay it out as nor where he wished to tie in. Also some of the features may have required a further modified BIOS to support these features. I am not a 7800 Coder and I can't write the BIOS. Mark also has all of the sources to the BIOS so I couldn't alter it anyway. So I have decided on a compromise - I am going to take many of the benefits from the Rev 3 designs, go back to the Rev 2 which was a working platform and incorporate those Rev 3 improvements where feasible and then use the last stable BIOS Mark had delivered for the project and put everything together. Perry has a friend who is an Analog Audio guy looking over the Yamaha portion of the XM schematics to see if he can fix some of the shortcomings with the design. So basically the final design will be a Rev 2.5 design. I've also decided that once the XM's are released I am putting all of the schematics into PD so those who'd like to tinker, hack and improve upon the XM design. Perhaps if Mark decides to get back involved in 7800 development at a later time, maybe he will release the BIOS as PD, but that is solely his decision and I would respect either way he would wish to go with that. My releasing of the schematics doesn't obligate him to release his BIOS. So I've started working on wedging the 68Pin 1504AS back into the Rev 3 boards, and re-routing the traces and removing all of the additional Bus partitioning and secondary Address Bus lines out of the design and getting to a Rev 2.5 'Hybrid' design which will be functional and do what was initially intended before feature-creep added to the design." From the OP, Mark is back to help as circumstances permit. It could mean just tying up Rev 2.5 at this point, or further additions, perhaps graphic related ones. It would be nice, but certainly not necessary. The Punch-Out!! and Zelda Overworld Map demos along with late 7800 titles ('89/'90, although the 1988 released Tower Toppler is pretty impressive too), show the base MARIA chip more than holding its own against NES cartridge chip PPU enhancements. To say the very least of Bentley Bear's Crystal Quest, it's all just the MARIA chip, complete with parallax scrolling. Even if it has graphic enhancements or assistance - No XM required for those graphics. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I just deleted one post that was non-constructive. If I have to keep doing this, I will be booting people from this thread. Please don't make me waste my time having to do so. ..Al 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhcocker Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I just deleted one post that was non-constructive. If I have to keep doing this, I will be booting people from this thread. Please don't make me waste my time having to do so. ..Al Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) This year we will get hover boards, flying cars and self tieing Nike shoes. Candle could have done this in his sleep years ago Edited January 10, 2015 by mimo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Dont forget the voice activated garden center fruit dispenser. "fruit please" Edited January 10, 2015 by 7800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxdrive Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 when this comes out will it be available in the AtariAge store or will it be in the marketplace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2600 Forever Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 when this comes out will it be available in the AtariAge store or will it be in the marketplace 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 when this comes out will it be available in the AtariAge store or will it be in the marketplace Here's a more helpful response. Hopefully they will be readily available to those who didn't pre-order. We'll have to wait and see. http://www.syzygycompany.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 http://www.syzygycom...t&product_id=51 "Poke Audio Processor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7800 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Here's a more helpful response. Hopefully they will be readily available to those who didn't pre-order. We'll have to wait and see. http://www.syzygycompany.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51 Is this what you think... or is it what Curt said. He told me a while back that there would be plenty to go around after all the pre-orders went out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tep392 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Is this what you think... or is it what Curt said. He told me a while back that there would be plenty to go around after all the pre-orders went out. I think the last posting we've seen from him indicate they will be available after the pre-orders ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakasama Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 To clear up any misconceptions of what the XM does or brings to the table regarding the 7800, next to the 7800's contemporary, the Famicom/NES, regarding expansion of their respective system, ‘XM Expansion Module and Nintendo cartridge hardware’, compares this way... Sound: 7800 XM: POKEY (4-channels with separate frequency, noise and voice level), YM2151 (8-channel, 4-operator FM Synthesis). Nintendo carts: NAMCO 163 (8 additional sound channels that play wavetable samples), Sunsoft 5B (Provides YM2149F - variant of AY-3-8910), VRC6 (2 additional pulse waves, and 1 additional sawtooth), VRC7 (Provides YM2413 - 6-channel, 2-operator FM Synthesis), MMC5 (2 additional square waves). Graphics: 7800 XM: N/A (Does not enhance or change the abilities of the MARIA/7800 graphics chip).* Nintendo carts (partial listing): MMC3 (Adds a scanline based IRQ counter - assist playfield to scroll and other mid-screen effects), MMC5 (Assist vertical split screen scrolling; Instead of 256 makes 16,384 different tiles per screen, greatly increases color capacity/ability of graphic tiles). Saving: 7800 XM: HSC compatible support/harnessed for possible save game support. Nintendo carts: MMC4 (Battery backed SRAM), MMC1A, MMC1B1, MMC1B2, MMC1B3, MMC1C (Battery based save game support with memory protection). Memory: 7800 XM: 128KB (1024k) RAM. Nintendo carts: 16k thru 1024k PRG ROM, 8k thru 256k CHR RAM or ROM, 512k thru 2048k AxROM (Adds to PRG ROM). *EDIT: If something "official" is announced regarding the (final) XM enhancing the 7800 graphics, it would be great to know. Didn't the XM have memory mappers too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Update: - The Yamaha section has been redesigned. - The memory system has some issues, it's most likely a timing issue that needs to be ironed out. - Once these are ironed out then the bus partitioning and control system can be fully tested and debugged. Since there are several revisions of the 7800, if the XM is incompatible with any revision, the serial number(s) will need to be documented and see if there is a corresponding set of serials for a particular incompatible revision of the 7800 and a disclaimer will need to be presented so that anyone who owns that version won't purchase an XM for their system. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrekMD Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thanks for the update, Retro Rogue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Thanks for the update Marty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Very nice. Much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataritiger Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks for the update. How many revisions of the 7800 are there? I have the USA 1984 model with expansion slot for the unreleased laserdisc add on. I hope it's compatible. Feel bad if somebody pre-ordered this and has a 7800 not compatible with XM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MattelAquarius Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Too early to worry about specific incompatibility. If that happens, we will have two options:1) Buy a compatible 7800 2) Sell off the XM to those who missed the pre-order. I wouldn't doubt that there may be a possible third option, as Legacy may offer to refund the purchaser prior to shipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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