2600 color WAY off

[24Fanatic365]

I bought a 2600 Vader console a few weeks ago, and have been playing it on my Vizio LCD flatscreen. The colors for most of my games have been way off, which I chalked up to the fact that I was playing on an HDTV. I picked up a 13" Magnavox CRT tv yesterday, and the colors are just as jacked up, some of them almost completely black & white with 1 single color in the mix. For example, Ms. PAC-MAN is all b&w with the exception of the extra men at the bottom of the screen, which are a actually yellow. Pitfall has colors, but they are muted, and the forest background is black instead of pale green like it should be.

 

I cracked the console open and turned the white disk below the On/off switch and the color/b&w switch with the single straight slot in the middle, which I thought was the color POT (someone correct me if I'm wrong) to zero effect. Any suggestions on how to fix this issue? I'm still running the stock Atari output through a direct coax adapter into the cable input on the back of my tv to bypass the rf slider that came with the console.

 

And as a side note, I have zero experience in electronics repair or soldering.

[tremoloman2006]

Open up your Atari and adjust the color pot (it's the big round circle looking device as shown in the picture)

 

[24Fanatic365]

I did that, but it didn't do anything at all. Any other suggestions?

[freewheel]

I'm not aware of anything else you can do here. You're getting a good video signal, but the chroma mix is all off. Which means a capacitor/resistor/trace is buggered, which means fixing via soldering. That POT is basically your only hope for an easy fix. You're using the "best" hookup method available to you without a mod.

 

It's just barely possible that the TIA chip is buggered in such a way that your colours are bad but everything else is fine, and if you have a socketed TIA and another 2600 handy, you could try swapping them out. This sort of repair doesn't really require any skills beyond some patience and a flathead screwdriver - but it does mean you need another unit.

 

Someone else may have a better idea. Symptoms like yours are basically why so many video mods for the 2600 have POTs in them. Colours drift on these things over time, and the main POT I believe controls only saturation, which isn't enough when you get more fine-grained colour problems.

[24Fanatic365]

Thanks for the answer. So I'm guessing another TIA isn't available from another source other than Frankensteining another console?

[freewheel]

Thanks for the answer. So I'm guessing another TIA isn't available from another source other than Frankensteining another console?

 

Oh. Never thought about that. The guys here would know better, but I wouldn't be surprised if Best Electronics still stocks them. They have basically every other part in stock.

 

The thing is.. paying for one, and shipping etc.. just to find out that's not the problem? I suppose you could try, I just never think of going that route.

[24Fanatic365]

I found the NTSC TIA "Custom Chip" at Best Electronics for $11.50. No idea how much shipping would be, though. Before going that route, I may drive back over to where I bought the console armed with my 13" tv and see if the guy will swap for another one of the consoles he has on hand. Assuming he has one that gives good color on my tv, that is. Then if that's unsuccessful, I'll keep the Vader I already have (since I know everything else works besides the jacked up color issue) and try my hand at electronics surgery! It's 30+ year old tech, so how hard could it possibly be, right?? That's what I tell myself, anyway...

[Bodyshots]

Are you using a Harmony Cartridge? (conveniently sold here at Atariage ) If so do you have the rom for the Test Cartridge?

See section 3-9 and 4-14 of the Atari 2600 Field Service Manual

https://console5.com/techwiki/images/e/ec/2600_Field_Service_Manual.pdf

 

However, it might just be easier to swap out that bad boy if you have that option.

[freewheel]

if that's unsuccessful, I'll keep the Vader I already have (since I know everything else works besides the jacked up color issue) and try my hand at electronics surgery! It's 30+ year old tech, so how hard could it possibly be, right?? That's what I tell myself, anyway...

 

Coupla comments, if you do feel so bold:

 

1. It's some of the easier soldering you'll find. You really only need to attach to a half-dozen points on the mainboard, and that's the tight stuff. The rest is just making connections to some pots/resistors/wires (depending on mod), but you can be really messy with that. So... don't be scared, but I'd definitely practice a bit first on something less valuable. And if you decide the console is basically "junk" with its current output, then you can easily justify removing the existing resistors and such that you'll be soldering connections to. This makes things a LOT easier. If you want to retain the RF output, it's a bit tighter to work in, but still fairly easy. 1970s tech rocks for those of us that aren't very good at soldering.

 

2. Vader units are some of the easier ones to mod. Simple to disassemble, simple to attach to, and lots of room to work and place stuff inside. Like whatever video circuit you end up building, some composite/S-Video ports, etc. And because it's not an "original" 6-switch, I just feel less guilty vandalizing one.

 

3. If you can find some, pick up some alligator clips or similar wires. The 2600 has big enough connection points that you can easily "test out" your circuit without removing or soldering a single thing. It can be a bit to clip it all together, but it's a great way to at least prove you can get a clean signal out of the unit. There's nothing worse than doing a bunch of work only to find out that the basic unit is busted (thinking of the TIA chip here). Probably should have this comment first, heh. Audio is dead simple to pull off the board, just 2 wires. You can even do that manually if you have a semi-steady hand. Just to test it. Video is a bit trickier to hold in place, hence the clips.

 

Something like this: http://www.dx.com/p/dual-head-crocodile-alligator-clip-test-lead-cable-10-pcs-151438#.U87KhP6VuUY

 

It's what I've been using for years. Always best to test.

Edited July 22, 2014 by freeweed

[24Fanatic365]

No Harmony cart as of yet, but I definitely plan on picking one up. Apparently I should categorize myself as more of an Atari player than a collector. I'll be perfectly happy to play ROMS through the Harmony cart rather than have butt tons of separate carts piling up. I mean, if I could have every game in the vast library for the 2600 for around 65 bones, then why not, right?

 

I'm gonna try to go the swapping consoles route, but if it comes down to it, I'll probably end up buying a new chip from Best and asking my Father-in-Law walk me through replacing it. He's handy like that and he's taught me how to do tons of stuff i didn't think I could pull off in the last few years.

 

If I do swap, I might go with a 2600 Jr. instead of another Vader or a woody. My thinking is that it'll be a newer unit, although only slightly, and I seem to recall reading somewhere here on AA that the outputs may be at least slightly better than the older consoles. Or did I imagine that?? Any feedback on my line of thinking would be greatly appreciated. You guys have been great thus far in this thread!

Edited July 22, 2014 by 24Fanatic365

[freewheel]

Keep in mind there's no guarantee that swapping the chip will solve anything. Funky colour could just as easily (if not more easily) be caused by something on the mainboard.

 

Personally I find the video from the older units better than Jrs. For whatever reason, half the Jrs I come into contact with have either really noisy RF output, or none at all. I think Atari started scrimping on components in their quest to create a cheaper unit. That may just be my bad luck however. I'd be curious what others have seen.

[Bodyshots]

No Harmony cart as of yet, but I definitely plan on picking one up. Apparently I should categorize myself as more of an Atari player than a collector. I'll be perfectly happy to play ROMS through the Harmony cart rather than have butt tons of separate carts piling up. I mean, if I could have every game in the vast library for the 2600 for around 65 bones, then why not, right?

 

 

I collect everything I'm a fan of. And the Harmony Cart came with a couple of home-brews on it and I'm extremely addicted to 'Stay Frosty' (Current High Score just over 100,000) So much that it will be on my Christmas Wish list.

I just prefer to play the roms on the original system it was intended for. When I'm organizing the roms I prefer to use an emulator on the computer.

Having access to so many roms allowed me access to games I would not have normally tried. When I found I liked them a lot I went out and purchased the original. Viewing the game on youtube gives me a general idea, but not the same as getting in to the game play.

 

Good luck on getting your system working, it's unfortunate your color is off…. At least it works!

[24Fanatic365]

So...an update is in order for my no color issue for the Vader console I had. I texted the guy I bought it from yesterday to let him know I had found a color CRT tv, hooked the console up to it and basically had black and white on many of the games I had. Told him what you guys had said about the TIA chip possibly being the problem, and asked him if it would be possible to bring it back in and test any of the other consoles he had in stock to see if they worked better, and if so, could we swap consoles? He texted back "Coolio"

 

Now, my street slang may not exactly be up to par, being a kid pushing 40 who grew up in small town TX, but I translated Coolio to mean, "Sure! Bring it in and I'll make it right for you." So I show up today armed with forum opinion from guys who've been around these consoles for quite some time and my trusty 13" Magnavox CRT color tv. He started off hemming and hawing about how long it's been that I've had the console, and that he would've been more than happy to exchange it if I hadn't had it for 3 weeks. I countered with the fact that it's a 30+ year old piece of electronics, so what could 3 weeks worth of play really have done to it, and the fact that I'd chalked the subpar color performance up to 70's tech being less than fully compatible with my newfangled 42" HDTV. Then I'd tracked down a CRT in decent shape 4 days before I'd texted him to propose an exchange, and was underwhelmed with the console's performance on my "old-tech" tv. I then hauled my tv into his shop from the car, and hooked up the Vader console to demonstrate what I was talking about. Then I hooked up a woody console he had just pulled off the shelf and the beautifully colored world of Ms. PAC MAN sprang to life in all it's wonderful splendor. A few more minutes of convincing him it was the console and not my tv that was the problem with my original console, and he ended up putting the woody into the bag I had all my Atari stuff in and told me we were cool.

 

So I now have a properly functioning 4 switch woody console, with a Harmony Cartridge on the way from AA! Needless to say, I'm super stoked about how this situation turned out!

 

Sorry for the long post, but just wanted you guys to know how the story turned out, since y'all were so helpful and informative in this thread. I think your explanations about what may be causing the issues with the Vader were extremely helpful arguments in pleading my case to the shop owner why he should let me exchange consoles. Thanks, guys!!

Edited July 27, 2014 by 24Fanatic365

[freewheel]

That's awesome to hear. I can understand the guy's position, but basically when you sell old tech, you have to expect this sort of thing. And he obviously didn't test it out very well because from what you describe, something's definitely wrong with it. Either the TIA or something on the mainboard, but either way it needs help. This wasn't something *you* could have done to it, it's probably been broken for years.

 

Enjoy the Harmony. I fried mine in a botched experiment (don't worry, this was entirely my fault and they're built very well) and am anxiously awaiting the next release version so I can play with one again. Playing hacks/homebrew/protos/extremely rare games on an honest-to-goodness console is AMAZING.

[Bodyshots]

 

So I now have a properly functioning 4 switch woody console, with a Harmony Cartridge on the way from AA! Needless to say, I'm super stoked about how this situation turned out!

 

 

 

I Love Happy Endings!

[iesposta]

I collect everything I'm a fan of. And the Harmony Cart came with a couple of home-brews on it and I'm extremely addicted to 'Stay Frosty' (Current High Score just over 100,000) So much that it will be on my Christmas Wish list.

...

Just curious.

Stay Frosty, or the demo of Stay Frosty 2 - Stay Frostier?

[Bodyshots]

The first 'Stay Frosty' and it has a bunch of others on there too

[24Fanatic365]

The color is so good on my woody that I got it dialed in to look beautiful even on my 42" Vizio LCD, but Ms. PAC -MAN is WAY harder to play. I keep missing my turns and running into the ghosts. I can hardly break 10,000 points, while I regularly break 35-40 grand on my CRT TV. I guess this has something to do with how the HDTV scans the image, which creates a lag. Do the AV and other video out mods fix this? I'm not planning on getting my console modded, as I'm perfectly happy playing on the smaller screen. Just wondering.

[freewheel]

It wouldn't surprise me if there's image processing delay in an LCD. A lot of people complained about various types of lag in the early HDTV days, when consoles started having things like VGA-out options available. Lord knows what kind of analog-digital-analog processing is happening inside. If it's a "smart" TV, it's probably dealing with OS memory faulting or some nonsense.

 

Personally I'll only play on a CRT anyway - LCDs get used for basic testing and that's it.

[24Fanatic365]

Yeah, freeweed, that's what I was thinking, as well. I figured the lag was due to some type of processing internal to the tv itself. Which is too bad, really, because the picture looks beautiful on my 42"! Lol!

[Bodyshots]

Vizio HD's are notoriously known for having outdated and discontinued parts at least a couple years old, if not more. Part buyout from other companies. A lot of these parts are also knockoffs. Hence the reason they are some of the cheapest HDTVs to purchase. They do the job for tv viewing, unless you are someone who has to have the best of the best, then they will suffice.

[Skarro]

Yeah, freeweed, that's what I was thinking, as well. I figured the lag was due to some type of processing internal to the tv itself. Which is too bad, really, because the picture looks beautiful on my 42"! Lol!

 

If you are experiencing lag on your Vizio, try poking around in the menus on your TV. On my Panasonic LED, I have an option for "Game mode" on the video inputs, which deactivates a lot of the processing that is done within the TV and helps to reduce the lag. I don't think all manufacturers include this option, but you might be lucky...

[24Fanatic365]

Thanks, skarro. My Vizio does have a game mode in the menu. I hadn't used that yesterday because I wanted to tweak the picture settings myself. I may give that a shot tonight, though and see what happens.

[freewheel]

Ah yeah, I knew I wasn't just pulling stuff out of my ass. I forgot that a lot of TVs have that "game mode" specifically to deal with their over-processing of analog inputs. It's been a long time since I had anything non-HDMI hooked into an HDTV, so I completely forgot the fix. But I remember the problem from a decade ago.

[24Fanatic365]

I tried out the game mode last night, me it completely cured the lag issue, but the colors don't look nearly as good as they do on my CRT, and since "Game" mode won't let me tweak any of the settings like brightness, tint, etc, I can't get it dialed in to look as good as I would like, so it's back to the CRT. Well, at least I know it's possible to play on my Vizio. So the experiment was at least partially successful! Lol!