Oh My God... Turrican... Oh My God

[Torr]

Wow, just wow.

 

Turrican.

It's one of those games I always 'Heard' about. I think there was also Super Turrican & Mega Turrican?, it seemed like a franchise that at least one of my friends would have had one game from...

But no one did. They were lucky.

 

I recently aquired this game second hand, having never played it. I only powered it up to test to see if it worked, and thought that the title screen had a very Euro PC game look to it.

Tonight I actually tried playing it.

 

Big Mistake.

 

If you've played, it you know why.

If you haven't, keep it that way, you don't wanna know.

 

Long story short, this game was not play tested. It couldn't have been. If it was, then it was play tested by the best gamers ever, or the programmers just didn't listen to any of the tester's complaints about the game.

 

Did anyone here actually pay full price for this when it was new? or have it unfortunately gifted to them on some holiday... how did you feel? I only paid 5 bucks and I feel ripped off. I can't imagine back in the day, since most young gamers only got a handful of games a year for birthdays and Christmas, or saving up all that money, and having your one NEW title to play be this... turd.

 

I know there's some old school game programmers on this site from various companies.... are any of the people who worked on this game a member here?

I feel like Stan and Kenny in that episode of South Park when they go to Mel Gibson's house to tell him his movie sucked and they demand there ticket money back.

Yeah, if I had gotten this game a kid, I would have tried EVERYthing to return this game, and I'm sure it would have been fruitless leaving me with no choice but to hitchhike to Ballistic's HQ and ask them what the hell they were thinking releasing that... that... abomination.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Torr

[George35]

Fortunately, I have never played it. But, Mega Turrican is pretty good.

[dustygraves.]

you mean the tg version right? i have it and with some effort i did beat it)

the grapfics remind of mega man 1 on the nes. also have mega turrican on the

genny but not beat that one yet.

[Gredler]

I rather enjoy Turrican, am I crazy? I got it not too long ago, and have really had a good time with what time I spent with it. Good music, cool imagry, and tight controls. I'm curious what your issues with it are

[R.O.T.S]

Turrican is okay on Megadrive ,nowhere near as polished as on the Amiga but acceptable. Mega Turrican is pretty Awesome though in comparison, another option is to take a look at Universal Soldier Instead (Turrican 2 clone) especially level 2 onwards.

 

Edited August 2, 2014 by R.O.T.S

[Austin]

Yeah, Turrican outright sucks. Mega Turrican on the other hand--one of the better Genesis/Mega Drive titles available.

 

I second the above recommendation for Universal Soldier as well. It's no Mega Turrican, but it's a step above the original Genesis Turrican.

[Jess Ragan]

I was going to say, "Are you nuts?" But then I remembered that there were two Turrican games on the Sega Genesis, with the first one being a miserable piece of cack. Mega Turrican is actually pretty good; arguably better than the Super Turrican games on Super NES!

[Austin]

I was going to say, "Are you nuts?" But then I remembered that there were two Turrican games on the Sega Genesis, with the first one being a miserable piece of cack. Mega Turrican is actually pretty good; arguably better than the Super Turrican games on Super NES!

 

I liked it better than those, although I do enjoy the first SNES one as well because of some of the same music being used. The game seems less refined and balanced as Mega Turrican from a level-design perspective and if I recall correctly, it makes for a more frustrating experience later on in the game. Admittedly I haven't given much time to Super Turrican 2 though. From what I played I remember the soundtrack being more ambience or suspenseful and film-like versus having catchy tunes like the series was known for up to that point.

[Gredler]

Hmm, maybe it gets worse later on, but I'd hardly call what of it I've played it a turd. I haven't played mega turrican, maybe it's mind blowing. This is making me want to go spend more time with turrican and find out what the hubbub is about. Adding universal solder to the list - I had no idea it was a decent game

Edited August 5, 2014 by Gredler

[IrishNinja]

having not been in the EU & played Turrican on an Amiga/etc i can't really speak for the port, but honestly, nothing about Mega Turrican is disappointing in the year of our lord 2014.

[Flojomojo]

Weren't the Turrican games made by the same people who did Rogue Squadron about ten years later? Such talent.

[Torr]

I must say, I've listened to what's been said here, and tried the game again, knowing and anticipating the horrendous controls/graphics/difficulty.

I got farther.

Not much.... but farther...

 

It's bad... if the graphics were just a STEP lower I'd swear this came from Action 52. In fact there are games on Action 52 I would DEFINIETLY choose over this...

 

Nope... to those of you who like it, it must be a nostalgia/grew up with it kind of thing... and I'm sure that If "I" got this game for XMas back in the day, I'd have been pissed but after an hour or two each day I would eventually know just when, where and how to move to get through at least the first level... I hope... and I would instead say "yeah, it's flawed, but once you get into it, it's playable"... I'm at that stage in life where luckily I don't have to "get into it" I can just play something else...

[Giltygear]

Mega Turrican was the first one that I played - up until that point I had heard about the series through GamePro and EGM. I remember Universal Solider coming out, but even back then i knew to stay FAR away from movie-licsensed games.

 

I find Turrican to be one of those series that I could appreciate more the older I got, especially with the music. Yeah, its decidedly European, but I found enough in those games to keep me interested.

 

Gun-Lord on the DC/NG is a great Turrican clone that I would reccomend giving an honest shot to.

[Austin]

A good rule of thumb for the console versions is to acknowledge that Gunlord and Mega Turrican exist (and play them, because they are great), then pretend like the others never happened. Actually, that's not entirely true--the SNES ones were pretty good too. Just pretend like the first Turrican on the PCE and Genesis never happened.

[Nebulon]

Hmmm.... Never played the Genesis version of that one. Turrican and Turrican II are good on the Amiga though. No complaints there.

 

Now I have to see the Genesis/MegaDrive version to see how they managed to f things up.

[Giltygear]

 

Now I have to see the Genesis/MegaDrive version to see how they managed to f things up.

 

 

http://youtu.be/xdY4EKAcW4Q

 

They didnt F this up at all.

 

[DestinedCruz]

This thread hurts my very soul.

Turrican is an outstanding game - one of the greatest run and gun platformers ever made.

The Sega Genesis version, however, is not. It's a shoddy port. A REALLY shoddy port. Bad music, bad sound, and they made the game MUCH more difficult than it is supposed to be since the player's health runs down at about double the speed it's supposed to. With enough practice the game can be an enjoyable challenge, but it's really best to stay away from this version. I still love it because I grew up with the game on Atari ST but that version was WAAAAYYYY better.

Me playing it on the Genesis:




Somebody playing the far superior Amiga version:

 

[BrianC]

I think part of the problem with the Genesis Turrican is that it, as far as I know, hasn't been properly optimized for 60 Hz and plays too fast on US systems. I haven't tested on PAL (emulator or otherwise) since I don't have a PAL system or TV to support it, but it does seem to run faster than it should. Mega Turrican, on the other hand, was done by Factor 5 themselves, and seems to have been properly optimized for NTSC.

Edited December 13, 2014 by BrianC

[Nebulon]

Is Turrican III on the Genesis? I just tried the Amiga version and it's pretty awesome. I'm wondering if the Gens/MD version might have been put together better than the first installment.

[DestinedCruz]

Is Turrican III on the Genesis? I just tried the Amiga version and it's pretty awesome. I'm wondering if the Gens/MD version might have been put together better than the first installment.

Turrican III is an enhanced Mega Turrican, sort of.

[108 Stars]

Turrican III is an enhanced Mega Turrican, sort of.

the other way around, actually. It is a scaled down Mega Turrican. Graphics had to be downgraded.

 

On-topic:

 

Turrican is a game I never got warm with myself, but Action 52 quality? Please... there are a lot worse MD games.

 

 

The C64 and Amiga version is said to be somewhat better, not that I can tell much of a difference beside some graphic effects.

Yet the thing is: It is a cult classic. Turrican on Amiga, we are talking about one of THE premier games on the system beside Shadow of the Beast; but with better gameplay. Turrican was a game that scored 90 ratings all over the place, sowas Turrican 2. Technically and gameplaywise it was regarded as ingenious.

 

Again, I never got into it myself, mostly because of the lack of hit feedback (enemies run through you and drain your health and your sprite does not react). But since the Amiga and MD versions are really not that far apart, I think the reaction here must be either a result of different tastes between NA and Europe, or it comes from playing in 2014 instead of 1990.

 

The MD version was not that well received because the Amiga version had been out a while and was somewhat better; having up AND a button assigned to jump at the same time did not help.

 

But the gameplay is intact, if sadly sped up for NA players (designed for 50hz on Amiga naturally).

 

What you must understand: It is NOT Contra. It is not meant to be. The point of Turrican is freedom and exploration of the vast levels. The Dreamcast/Neo Geo indie game Gunlord, very well received, is a Turrican clone.

 

And while technically better, Mega Turrican (let alone Suer Turrican) are not as well-received as (Amiga) Turrican and Turrican 2. The loss of freedom and the alround shot did not go over well with players.

 

To this day, it puzzles me why the MD gamers hate Turrican so much, while it is praised by Amiga players, despite being almost identical. The biggest advantage on Amiga is the better rendition of Chris Hülsbecks soundtrack.

I find the difference in reception fascinating.

 

To show the reception of the C64/Amiga originals, here's the reception boxes from Wikipedia and Moby:

 

 

Have I not gotten into it deep enough? Are the tastes between NA and Europe that different? Or the tastes of computer gamers and console gamers?

 

This thread hurts my very soul.

 

Turrican is an outstanding game - one of the greatest run and gun platformers ever made.

 

The Sega Genesis version, however, is not. It's a shoddy port. A REALLY shoddy port. Bad music, bad sound, and they made the game MUCH more difficult than it is supposed to be since the player's health runs down at about double the speed it's supposed to. With enough practice the game can be an enjoyable challenge, but it's really best to stay away from this version. I still love it because I grew up with the game on Atari ST but that version was WAAAAYYYY better.

Saw your post too late... so you really think gameplay is that severly screwed up to make THAT MUCH of a difference? I don't get far on either Amiga or MD version myself...

Edited December 16, 2014 by 108 Stars

[+thegoldenband]

since the Amiga and MD versions are really not that far apart, I think the reaction here must be either a result of different tastes between NA and Europe

 

I think this is key. A lot -- and I mean a lot -- of American console gamers loathe the European approach. Hard to quantify exactly what that is, but it's a combination of certain art styles, brutal difficulty curves, a willingness to put up with control schemes that aren't super-fluid and intuitive, and a few other things.

 

Personally I often enjoy Euro games, but others really rage at them.

[Austin]

 

Hard to quantify exactly what that is

 

It's pretty easy for me to quantify. Just watching that Amiga Turrican video makes me sick to the stomach (OK, not seriously, but still). The biggest thing for me are the repetitive flow-stopping obstacles that give you very little leeway to get past or through (and I'm talking like just one or two frames of leeway). This results in a game that's more of a nuisance to play than actually fun. In a lot of cases it feels like levels were just phoned in, like someone found a level design editor and just point 'n clicked a bunch of random objects in place. Euro games also tend to be hard just for the sake of being hard, but part of that could be a result of the type of level design I mentioned above. Maybe these types of games were fine in their own time when they were cutting edge, but time hasn't been kind to their style of level design. That's a big difference that sets Mega Turrican apart from the the first one, the level design is really solid and as a result the flow is pretty good in the game (up until the last stage or two where the stages are too large for their own good). The game still holds up great as a result and newcomers that didn't grow up with this era of gaming still tend to enjoy it from what I have seen.

[Nebulon]

I only found out about the tendency for a lot of NA gamers being less-than-enthusiastic about Euro games recently. There was a NES at a friend's girlfriend's apartment and we decided to fire it up. I suggested Cybernoid. Well, he'd never played it before and let's say there was a great deal of frustration involved. He gave it a good try though (he's one of the few people who has beaten Battletoads, so maybe that's why he was so patient with it). I'd already studied-up on the Spectrum version of Cybernoids so I knew what we were in for.

 

Personally, I really like video games from UK, Europe, Scandinavia, Germany, etc... a lot (although there are a few titles that are waaayyyy too difficult). Then-again, it usually isn't hard to find trainers for those.

 

Keep in mind that a lot of the modern games out there are technically 'Euro' games (e.g. Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher's Bay, Grand Theft Auto, Rally Sport Challenge, and a ton of others).

Edited December 17, 2014 by Nebulon

[108 Stars]

 

That's a big difference that sets Mega Turrican apart from the the first one, the level design is really solid and as a result the flow is pretty good in the game (up until the last stage or two where the stages are too large for their own good). The game still holds up great as a result and newcomers that didn't grow up with this era of gaming still tend to enjoy it from what I have seen.

And again, this seems to be a huge difference in mentality between gamers in the US and Europe. As I said before, the levels being too short and too straight, resulting in the "flow" you mention, is the main point in my experience why Europeans tend to rate Mega Turrican considerably lower than Turrican 1 and 2. What you regard as cluttered levels that seem like someone just played around with a level editor the first time is exactly what makes Turrican so good for many here from what I understand. Or rather made it good, as it is mostly people who played it back in the day. Not running along with the flow like in Contra, but having to explore vast levels, finding hidden niches and getting lost until you know which route to take.

 

People genuinly missed that, and so while a huge technical achievement for 1993, and a great run'n gun in its own right, MT is kind of regarded as the black sheep. The pseudo Turrican that wants to mimic Japanese games like Contra too much, from the smaller levels to the gritty, dark look.

 

To be clear, I did not grow up with Turrican, I first played it as an adult and can't get a hang of it due to the energy draining without my sprite becoming invincible after damage, or being pushed back a bit or something. Deal breaker for me, I have been taught to expect some signal for damage. And Mega Turrican is by far the best Turrican for me, and actually a really great game not just for a Turrican game. But I seem to be in the small minority here. That's why the topic is so interesting to me. I am treated like an alien in Germany for not seeing the grandness of Turrican 1 and 2, and preferring lowly games such as MT or Contra. NA is the other extreme, and when I read comparisons to Action 52, I don't dislike it nearly that much. So I am stuck in the middle.

What I think is undeniable looking at the time of release is that the game was a technically excellent piece of software. Especially on C64, but also Amiga and ST. Remember, that was 1990, when people were used mostly to slow, flickering 8-bit action games. Level 1 sadly looks especially dull with its plain blue sky, but in 1990 or 1991, I would have surely found it to be an attractive game.

Edited December 17, 2014 by 108 Stars