The Usotsuki Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I stuck out a couple tentacles elsewhere to try to get a bit of a hand because I'm not good at getting projects off the ground (though, once they get airborne, they usually stay there). I was asked to try sticking out a tentacle here too, though I felt it was a bit premature. I got to thinking, of all the games I'd like to see on the Apple and haven't seen yet, what is the one that would be easiest to port?, and decided it would be Galaga. I might need a hand getting started, though if it gets to a certain point, the work to that point, plus the sources for the arcade or 7800 version, may be enough to get it the rest of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDog Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Why? That system already has plenty of space shooters including Galaga knock-offs. It's a system in need of new games, no doubt, but new original games please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 I have yet to see a Galaga clone. Tons of Galaxian clones, no Galagas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'm not aware of any Galaga clones for the Apple II. Tons of Galaxian clones but not Galaga It's odd, but when you think about it there were very few Galaga clones for any system back in the day even though it was more popular than Galaxian. Perhaps it was the technical aspects that made it too difficult to port (all those looping enemies)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I also agree that the Apple II has a generous selection of Space Invaders/Galaxian-type shooters. There's probably a few Galaga-type games in there too that I'm sure we're forgetting. It's always good to get new games, but I do hope that if all that effort is put into creating yet another version of this game that the "real" end result after that game is an engine that could be leveraged for further use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 It would absolutely be wise to save functions from one project to use in another Some functions I pulled from PDOS RDOS in order to support EHBASIC can be found in most of my hacks, in various forms, ranging from complete versions with proper error handling, to small versions made to use the smallest memory footprint possible (believe me, a sub-256-byte file loader is incredibly useful sometimes). A stars routine for Galaga would probably be useful in a port of another space shooter, like Gaplus or Bosconian. A sprite engine would be extremely useful in just about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 A stars routine for Galaga would probably be useful in a port of another space shooter, like Gaplus or Bosconian. Gaplus or Bosconian would be awesome to see on the A2. I don't think either of those got a home port. So what kind of A2 are you targeting? 64K Apple II+ or 128K IIe/IIc? I don't think it makes sense to go down to the 48K level as most Apple II users have at least 64K but you might have to if you want maximum compatibility. A IIgs version would be neat to see as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanrunomad Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Nice! Love me some Galaga. It's the only standup arcade I own. I can't recall any "Galaga clones" per se, but there's plenty of games out there with similarities like Alien Rain, AE, Space Quarks, Sputnik Attack, Bandits, and dozens more. On the IIGS there's a wonderful little gem called Space Cluster. Of course there's also Galaxian itself, which is essentially Galaga minus the bonus stages and dual ships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Gaplus or Bosconian would be awesome to see on the A2. I don't think either of those got a home port. So what kind of A2 are you targeting? 64K Apple II+ or 128K IIe/IIc? I don't think it makes sense to go down to the 48K level as most Apple II users have at least 64K but you might have to if you want maximum compatibility. A IIgs version would be neat to see as well. I consider the 64K ][+ the true lowest common denominator practically. 128K //e would be an option if the game could benefit from it; Galaga wouldn't, IMO. A GS port would be awesome; prolly look like the NES port, which was excellent. Nice! Love me some Galaga. It's the only standup arcade I own. I can't recall any "Galaga clones" per se, but there's plenty of games out there with similarities like Alien Rain, AE, Space Quarks, Sputnik Attack, Bandits, and dozens more. On the IIGS there's a wonderful little gem called Space Cluster. Of course there's also Galaxian itself, which is essentially Galaga minus the bonus stages and dual ships. Most of those are Galaxian clones, like Alien Rain. Space Quarks has more in common with Galaxian than Galaga. Galaxian also got an official port - it was one of the first filecracks I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Forgot to add: Bosconian got a home port on the MSX computer, and Gaplus to the C64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Forgot to add: Bosconian got a home port on the MSX computer, and Gaplus to the C64. Bosconian was converted to the C64, Spectrum and Amstrad CPC as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Bosconian was converted to the C64, Spectrum and Amstrad CPC as well. If you mean "Bosconian 87", that wasn't remotely an accurate port or clone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 If you mean "Bosconian 87", that wasn't remotely an accurate port or clone. They're officially licensed conversions, that doesn't necessarily make them accurate conversions of course but they exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 On the C64 version the speed is completely wrong, the ship doesn't fire correctly (it's Bosconian, the ship's supposed to have front AND rear cannons), etc. (looks like the Spectrum version is a bit closer to the real thing, but still a bit off). At least their port of Gaplus, which actually mentions Namco, appears to be decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmphosis Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 10 HGR : FOR L = 0 TO 14 20 Y = 64 + L * 2:V = Y + 1 30 READ A$: FOR P = 1 TO 16 40 C = VAL ( MID$ (A$,P,1)) 50 X = 122 + P * 2:U = X + 1 60 ON C > 0 GOSUB 80: NEXT P,L 70 END : DATA........55777777 80 HCOLOR= C: HPLOT X,Y TO U,Y 90 HPLOT X,V TO U,V: RETURN 100 DATA............777. 110 DATA...........777.. 120 DATA.....55776777... 130 DATA........6777755. 140 DATA.......77777555. 150 DATA...77777755777.. 160 DATA7777777755777777 170 DATA...77777755777.. 180 DATA.......77777555. 190 DATA........6777755. 200 DATA.....55776777... 210 DATA...........777.. 220 DATA............777. 230 DATA........55777777 LIST:VTAB23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Nice Galaga ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 10 HGR : FOR L = 0 TO 14 20 Y = 64 + L * 2:V = Y + 1 30 READ A$: FOR P = 1 TO 16 40 C = VAL ( MID$ (A$,P,1)) 50 X = 122 + P * 2:U = X + 1 60 ON C > 0 GOSUB 80: NEXT P,L 70 END : DATA........55777777 80 HCOLOR= C: HPLOT X,Y TO U,Y 90 HPLOT X,V TO U,V: RETURN 100 DATA............777. 110 DATA...........777.. 120 DATA.....55776777... 130 DATA........6777755. 140 DATA.......77777555. 150 DATA...77777755777.. 160 DATA7777777755777777 170 DATA...77777755777.. 180 DATA.......77777555. 190 DATA........6777755. 200 DATA.....55776777... 210 DATA...........777.. 220 DATA............777. 230 DATA........55777777 LIST:VTAB23 heh nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Speed's prolly wrong, but MESS runs the Tandy 1000HX too fast or something. But if you have PCjr or Tandy 1000 BASIC, 10 A$="t120o3e8c16d8f16e8c16d8a16g8c16d8f16e8c16g8b16>e-8d16c8<b-16a-8g16f8<b-16>b-8>c16<b-8e-16a16f16d16g16e16d16" 20 B$="t120o3<g8p16a8.b8.a8.>c8.<a8.>c8.<b8>d16>c8<b-16a8g16f8.d8<b-16>g8a-16g8.f16d16<a16>d16<b16a16" 30 SOUND ON:PLAY A$,B$ I tried punching a score into MCS and my head exploded, but I punched it into GW-BASIC and worked fine with some tweaks, to make this. Edited August 12, 2014 by The Usotsuki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Practically every Galaga/clone on home systems is a dud - the exception being the NES version which is easily closest to the arcade. The 7800 version IMO misses the boat because the aspect ratio is all wrong - it's in 160h mode but the movements aren't suitably adjusted. Doing Galaga properly/accurately on any 8-bit machine would be a chore - just the swelling of the alien formation in itself is a lot of CPU time (my idea there would be to only move 2 or 3 per frame). My suggestion would be look at the NES code since it's 6502. The (6502) BBC Micro also had a clone (Zalaga) but it suffers from some of the issues I already mentioned. Note of course the arcade machine uses a Z80 CPU so using it as a basis would be more of a challenge, plus the fact it uses portrait monitor orientation. Edited August 12, 2014 by Rybags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesD Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 No more Knight Lore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 No more Knight Lore? If only... I don't even know where I'd *start* working with that beyond oh, there's a BBC version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Practically every Galaga/clone on home systems is a dud - the exception being the NES version which is easily closest to the arcade. The 7800 version IMO misses the boat because the aspect ratio is all wrong - it's in 160h mode but the movements aren't suitably adjusted. Doing Galaga properly/accurately on any 8-bit machine would be a chore - just the swelling of the alien formation in itself is a lot of CPU time (my idea there would be to only move 2 or 3 per frame). My suggestion would be look at the NES code since it's 6502. The (6502) BBC Micro also had a clone (Zalaga) but it suffers from some of the issues I already mentioned. Note of course the arcade machine uses a Z80 CPU so using it as a basis would be more of a challenge, plus the fact it uses portrait monitor orientation. MSX version's good too. But that's probably because of what it has in common with the NES version: the same screen layout, and both being done in-house by Namco. (And the 256x192 resolution is closer to the Apple's 280x192.) For us, though, its only real utility is the AY8910 sound code, which could be used to provide Mockingboard support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmphosis Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 "There are known problems with this game The video emulation isn't 100% accurate." Galaga (Namco rev. B) 1981 Namco CPU: 3xZ80 3.072000 MHz MB8843 256.00 kHz MB8844 256.00 kHz Sound: Namco 96.000 kHz Discrete Video: 288 x 224 (V) 60.606061 Hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Doesn't A.E. have some smooth swooping motions for the enemies? Same deal with Bandits and maybe Threshold.. It's been 30 years since I played Apple Bandits. I gotta revisit that one. ADDED: I just checked out A.E. in context of comparison to galaga. A.E. certainly moves stuff around with galaga speed and the patterns are more than complex enough. I think if you study Bandits, Threshold, and A.E. you'll come to conclusion that Galaga is possible. Of course the color fidelity won't be anywhere like the arcade, many liberties will need to be taken here. Edited August 12, 2014 by Keatah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Doesn't have to be. Look at the MSX port with its monochrome sprites, and it still feels like Galaga. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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