KC Munchkin The $130,000 Game preorder thread!

[Mr SQL]

KC Munchkin - The $130,000 Game preorder thread!

KC Muchkin Monster Maze is an innovative and unique homebrew with tremendous gameplay that cost $130,000 to develop:

 

Written in 100% optimised Assembly and featuring such goodies as a dozen tile mapped sprite characters on screen at once (or off interating elsewhere in the virtual world) on a constantly changing four way scrolling board, this game clocked in at 2,000 hours of professional development for a total development cost of $130,000.

 

Follow the link here to read some reviews from gamers at AtariAge and to watch the video review by Metal Jesus and the Immortal John Hancock - it's at 12:15 in their SuperCharger anthology

 

PREORDER:

 

 

If you'd like a copy to play with your Harmony or SuperCharger flashcart, KCMM is available for preorder here for $60 and will begin shipping again in November!

The game ships with a four page colour manual and a genuine retro flyer/advertisement from my 80's Video Game Company, Saint John Gallery Software

A deluxe edition/upgrade with an incredible reproduction box is also available for an additional $20/14 Euro from Marc Oberhäuser.

 

 

AWESOME OPPORTUNITY TO OWN THE PRODUCTION RIGHTS:

 

Like that awesome game you see in the video and reviews and want the chance to control all aspects of production?

No problem! - a unique opportunity can be had own the full rights to KCMM for one lucky individual at cost with no extra charges or fees - I am willing to sell all rights to the game for just the development costs with no extra fees or profit - just the $130,000 it cost to develop. Purchasing the rights will enable you to:

 

• Sell the game on Tape or Cart
• Set any price you think is fair
  
• Make piles of cash, like this:

 

 

Do the Math!!! (Jaguar, Jagual Jaguar!!!) All you'll need to do to break even is sell 2,000 copies at $65 each, and then some more to cover your production costs - after that it's all gravy and you can just rake in the profits like it was 1982; that's the beauty of owning the IP!

 

Alternately you can just make the ROM and the media (Tape, Cart, CD) available free for everyone to enjoy and include a Robot with each order!

 

You can even make the game unavailable to watch the ebay copies go through the roof and then surprise everyone with another production run!

 

[Albert]

 

AWESOME OPPORTUNITY TO OWN THE PRODUCTION RIGHTS:

 

Like that awesome game you see in the video and reviews and want the chance to control all aspects of production?

 

No problem! - a unique opportunity can be had own the full rights to KCMM for one lucky individual at cost with no extra charges or fees - I am willing to sell all rights to the game for just the development costs with no extra fees or profit - just the $130,000 it cost to develop. Purchasing the rights will enable you to:

 

PM Sent!

[bennybingo]

***click to animate***

 

[boxpressed]

Remember to add $10,000 to Philips/Magnavox for the licensing rights!

[Andre81]

Could you please post your detailed time sheets here for review so we can start the due diligence process. Thanks

[boxpressed]

2,000 hours = full-time work for one year for one person (with a two-week vacation).

[Andre81]

The Intellivision was released in 1980, so we also need to discount the price to 1980 Dollars.

 

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

 

So the price will only be $45,000.

[Mr SQL]

2,000 hours = full-time work for one year for one person (with a two-week vacation).

No it's six months or less; you have to calculate in the coffee and cigarettes

 

Tell you what Boxpressed, you make a big pot of coffee and take breaks to play Defender and you stay up all night tonight and I'll teach you Assembly laguage for the Atari VCS in 8 hours - no joke, follow the link in my signature and see for yourself

 

 

Could you please post your detailed time sheets here for review so we can start the due diligence process. Thanks

 

Andre81,

I wrote Video Games in the 80's and have been programming ever since - that's a lot of coding and anyone with commensurate experiene can gauge the time investment just looking at the game. What's your reference point? Thanks

[boxpressed]

No it's six months or less; you have to calculate in the coffee and cigarettes

 

Tell you what Boxpressed, you make a big pot of coffee and take breaks to play Defender and you stay up all night tonight and I'll teach you Assembly laguage for the Atari VCS in 8 hours - no joke, follow the link in my signature and see for yourself

 

Thanks for offer! I made Cs and Ds in all my EE courses in college, so it probably won't take. Turned out I was good at just playing games, not programming them.

[Andre81]

What's your reference point? Thanks

Howard Scott Warshaw took 6 weeks to write ET and he didn't have emulators and such things.

 

So we need to compare your game with ET and then multiply it by 3 weeks.

[Mr SQL]

Howard Scott Warshaw took 6 weeks to write ET and he didn't have emulators and such things.

 

So we need to compare your game with ET and then multiply it by 3 weeks.

Warshaw used an accelerator Framework like bB which multiplies development time by warp factor 10

(And Frameworks are awesome, just look at some of the incredible bB games today - you can't blame ET on the Framework)

 

Development cost with the accelerator Framework for ET came to about $18k while a pure asm game like Defender cost $80k (in today's dollars); that's how it works

 

Defender = 4k of awesomeness at $80k

KCMM = 6k* of awesomeness at $130k

*7k unpacked; there's a realtime compression layer for the fancy graphics; I wrote a RAM doubler in software

 

And I didn't use an emulator, I used a 1982 Arcadia SuperCharger board and wrote straight Assembly code like bitd

[Andre81]

Warshaw used an accelerator Framework like bB which multiplies development time by warp factor 10

(And Frameworks are awesome, just look at some of the incredible bB games today - you can't blame ET on the Framework)

 

Development cost with the accelerator Framework for ET came to about $18k while a pure asm game like Defender cost $80k (in today's dollars); that's how it works

 

Defender = 4k of awesomeness at $80k

KCMM = 6k* of awesomeness at $130k

*7k unpacked; there's a realtime compression layer for the fancy graphics; I wrote a RAM doubler in software

 

And I didn't use an emulator, I used a 1982 Arcadia SuperCharger board and wrote straight Assembly code like bitd

You got the equation wrong.

 

Number of screens in KCMM / Number of screens in ET * 6 weeks / 2

[Mr SQL]

You got the equation wrong.

 

Number of screens in KCMM / Number of screens in ET * 6 weeks / 2

 

LOL Andre! KCMM has a four way scrolling constantly changing maze ten times the size of the screen; ET is a pager and not tile mapped like an NES game.

 

If you're posing this argumet you don't have perspective; you've already missed the time differential between Framework and Assembly games - revisit the example I gave you between ET and Defender.

 

If you have genuine questions about that I can help you understand but I think you're probably just having sport comparing to ET

[Mr SQL]

 

PM Sent!

 

Al,

I can't accept - I've already received angry PM's that I was ripping you off by not selling KCMM through the AtariAge store in the first place.

 

It's a really fun game that was really fun to write; you may market it for free (also working for free at your cost, so that no one will be angry) if you donate all proceeds to charity

 

Gamer who sends me PM's wanting the ROM for $1,

you can have the ROM completely free if you donate the $60 preorder cost to charity but I'll go ahead and charge you a shipping and handling fee if you want me to ship you the media too - I'm not the guy on the assembly line, I'm the guy writing the awesome Assembly code

 

Andre81,

ET is like a bB game because it used an accelerator framework but it wasn't actually written in 5 1/2 weeks - those kind of bB games are awesome!! ET is like a bB game that was written in two days, which it was - then the author spent 5 weeks adding a title screen and music and trying to dress it up but it still plays like a two day game because that's what it is

 

Maybe you should find a 2-day bB game to compare fairly to ET instead of a 2,000 hour asm game

[carlsson]

Which kind of dollars are you dealing in? As you haven't filled in a location, I'll assume you're based in Zimbabwe and are looking to get 130,000 ZWD, which however went out of circulation five years ago but perhaps someone still got a few banknotes in a coffee jar.

[Andre81]

Which kind of dollars are you dealing in? As you haven't filled in a location, I'll assume you're based in Zimbabwe and are looking to get 130,000 ZWD, which however went out of circulation five years ago but perhaps someone still got a few banknotes in a coffee jar.

 

I'd offer 100 Trillion Dollars and a mint copy of ET.

[Mr SQL]

Which kind of dollars are you dealing in? As you haven't filled in a location, I'll assume you're based in Zimbabwe and are looking to get 130,000 ZWD, which however went out of circulation five years ago but perhaps someone still got a few banknotes in a coffee jar.

 

Carlsson,

GBP would actually reflect a more accurate rate for me but that's not the point - this thread is educational, don't take it literally

 

I posted a USD rate for development in today's dollars to show an example of what advanced development would cost if we were actually doing this for the money - I wrote the game for fun and everyone enjoyed it but I didn't expect nasty posts or hater mail from a very small but vocal minority in return.

 

KCMM is educational too btw and not just an awesome game; gamers are learning binary at nerd speed because I made it fun and part of the game - how cool is that?

 

Andre81,

you're completely missing the point about ET; it could have been an awesome game if the developer actually spent 5 1/2 weeks on it using the bB style Accelerator framework from Atari but he didn't (that Atari Framework was awesome! ). It's clear he spent only two days writing the game and then 5 weeks doing the title screen and theme; you can't push a Framework like that and expect a fun game unless it's incredibly simple, it would be like asking the enterprise to do Warp 100, c'mon

[Albert]

Al,

I can't accept - I've already received angry PM's that I was ripping you off by not selling KCMM through the AtariAge store in the first place.

That's really disappointing news. Guess I will have to invest that money in Tesla instead.

 

..Al

[bennybingo]

This thread is phenomenal! :thumbsup:

[+save2600]

Never mind. Somehow I thought this thread was going to be about the latest Intellivision homebrew.

[Mr SQL]

Never mind. Somehow I thought this thread was going to be about the latest Intellivision homebrew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aghqgf6qqRw&feature=player_embedded

Here Save2600, watch the Peppermint Candy Swirl level; go ahead reach out and touch the screen, pretend you've got the game and you're playing it.

 

It starts out serenely enough with KC sailing under Tremoloman's awesome Atari logo artwork while turbulent moire swirls turn the 3d walls to dreamly liquid peppermint candy you can practically taste.

 

Is it a demo is it a game? BOOM! it's both!

 

Then the action starts moving a mile a minute - a dozen sprites dance solidly on screen and off and while the ever changing maze turns on high octane ultra fast gameplay like nothing you've ever experienced before on the VCS...

 

And you might never experience it; KCMM isn't available at all right now... November ship date could slip to next year sometime I haven't decided

 

Oh, and this $60 preorder run won't last long; perhaps a few months, maybe just a week or two.

 

Next there will be a final limited run for 2k monies per copy that you'll pay direct to charity (but it has to be 2k monies) and then after I get confirmation I'll ship you the ROM and the game media completely free just like semigraphics and artifacts colours are to me:

 

Hawaiian noises, that's the way you do it; get your colours for nothing get your bits for free (and the game for free, you get the game free too)

 

Note: You want effects like in the Video you need an NTSC set that doesn't auto correct, tight to spec like a JVC from the 80's; all setting should be right in the middle with no adjustments and you'll need a 4-switch with it's "bad" video leaking chroma like a seive in a rainstorm. Perfect RF with ferrite is best.

 

You think you're bad? I'm just getting started

[+nanochess]

Hmmmm, I didn't have timed the development of my games...

 

After checking how much it's worth each game, I'll chase everyone with a cartridge to reclaim the extra dollars

 

[Mr SQL]

UPDATE: In a couple of days I will unleash the KCMM engine for FREE!

 

It's the Abstract Assembly SDK, and it's always been free - this version is no different except that it's more powerful!

 

Programmers can use Abstract Assembly or bAtari BASIC to rapidly build awesome large virtual world games with tile mapped characters like the NES!

 

 

Fun Fact: Of the time spent working on KCMM, over 3/4 was spent on this Engine!

 

I'll post a link when it's available!

[Retro Rogue]

So all the claims regarding ET and the existence of a framework at Atari quoted below seemed off to me. Games for the 2600 were made via custom kernels per game, coded in assembly. Some coders may have shared various coding techniques for reducing flickering and specifics like that, but nobody in Howard's time I've just talked directly to know of any "accelerator bB Framework," including Howard.

 

I quoted you direct to him, and here was his response:

 

Well, that's just not true. If they really understood the hardware they could see that ET used 1-line resolution graphics for the characters and no missile gfx. Raiders had several kernels but they were all 2-line res characters using all the gfx components, some if much more sophisticated ways. So these people have no idea what they are talking about.

 

Just to make double sure, I responded back with "Thats what I thought (with the coding). I know people borrowed other people's ideas for things like reducing flicker and that but I never heard of an actual reusable framework for the 2600 to build games on top of. Every game was a custom kernel as far as I knew."

 

And Howard responded back:

 

You knew right.

 

*Edited for Steve Woita's response I just received*

 

I checked with Steve Woita since he was there in the same time period as well. His response:

 

I have no idea what that person is talking about. All off our games were written in 100% pure assembly.

 

 

I also provided them them with direct links to the claims in this thread just to make sure there was no misrepresentation on my end.

 

 

Warshaw used an accelerator Framework like bB which multiplies development time by warp factor 10

(And Frameworks are awesome, just look at some of the incredible bB games today - you can't blame ET on the Framework)

 

Development cost with the accelerator Framework for ET came to about $18k while a pure asm game like Defender cost $80k (in today's dollars); that's how it works

 

Defender = 4k of awesomeness at $80k

KCMM = 6k* of awesomeness at $130k

*7k unpacked; there's a realtime compression layer for the fancy graphics; I wrote a RAM doubler in software

 

And I didn't use an emulator, I used a 1982 Arcadia SuperCharger board and wrote straight Assembly code like bitd

 

 

 

LOL Andre! KCMM has a four way scrolling constantly changing maze ten times the size of the screen; ET is a pager and not tile mapped like an NES game.

 

If you're posing this argumet you don't have perspective; you've already missed the time differential between Framework and Assembly games - revisit the example I gave you between ET and Defender.

 

If you have genuine questions about that I can help you understand but I think you're probably just having sport comparing to ET

 

 

 

Andre81,

ET is like a bB game because it used an accelerator framework but it wasn't actually written in 5 1/2 weeks - those kind of bB games are awesome!! ET is like a bB game that was written in two days, which it was - then the author spent 5 weeks adding a title screen and music and trying to dress it up but it still plays like a two day game because that's what it is

 

Maybe you should find a 2-day bB game to compare fairly to ET instead of a 2,000 hour asm game

[Mr SQL]

Retro Rogue,
thanks for joining the thread! Looks like we're in for an interesting discussion!

 

To start with we need some clarification on Frameworks:

 

A Framework is independant of the language; you could use asm to code to the bB Framework and you would still be leveraging the bB accelerator Framework to build games rapidly. The VCS has no Framebuffer save 1/2 a line, so the Framework abstracts the hardware to present things like (potentially) a screen buffer, and to make the sprites X,Y addressable and allow loading of character sprite definitions, setting pixels for drawing stuff, etc. The Framework can usually be consisdered the kernel or kernels, plus abstraction routines that handle racing the beam (the low level line based stuff that HSW referenced).

 

I got the idea that ET leveraged a Framework for two reasons:

 

1. I read that another programmer did the graphics subsystem for HSW and it sounded an awful lot like a Framework, not borrowing a piece of code here and there.

 

2. The game has a similar look to Raiders indicating that some of the codebase for the graphics subsystem is shared; in contrast it looks like HSW was racing the beam, coding low level asm with the unique design of Yars Revenge - another programmer didn't build the graphics subsystem for that game.

 

There's nothing wrong with using Frameworks, they're awesome and allow for faster development. But there's a big time difference when a game is written without one; plenty of asm games used another asm game as a Framework (a lot of the code, not just a piece here and there). MS Pacman is one awesome example - it was built on the Framework of Todd Frye's source (the 8K build). Defender II is another incredible example; you can guess what game it used as a Framework to build off of - Defender!

 

Many of my games use the ASDK Framework I've developed and shared with the Atari community - like the bB Framework, the hardware is abstracted and additional objects like a screen CAM and virtual world are available like you have on the NES.

 

If you look at my last post you'll see the bulk of the development time on KCMM was actually spent enhancing the Framework, the game itself was fast to build because of this.