Rev Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 OK, in this build if you don't get the key you just keep moving over the chest and don't open it. I'm a little worried because I only have 10 kb left and the game controls take up most of the 5k I have. I don't know how many mazes I can put in here. You have music in it already? Does that take up much room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsfolly Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 OK, but what is the value for collision with walls? 011e seems to be everything. What value are you talking about? The collision registers? Backtab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsfolly Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) I'm interested in how hard level 8 is. I want it to be hard enough, but not impossible. If you do find it impossible, keep in mind that I beat it. If it's too hard, I'll save it for a later level. It was hard, but I beat it. How do you store the level data? Is it compressed at all? In its present form, it could be easily compressed with run length encoding or a bitmap... Catsfolly Edited September 20, 2014 by catsfolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I passed level eight! Yay! I like the faster control, but man is it brutal. I don't think it is too hard for an eighth level. By the way, why do you say you only have 10 KB left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I like the idea of a key to open the treasure chest. I also like that not picking up the key just lets you hover aimlessly over the chest with no consequence other than not completing the level. I do not like those mazes, though. I still think that getting my little periscope entangled in the weeds should not cause it to explode. (This coming from the guy who made a maze game!) Personally, I like games where the challenge is in using strategy or cunning skills to avoid enemies or danger; and GoSub still feels like one of those games where you must fight with the control system or mechanics in order to play, and there's too much chance that you'll get into a bad situation through no fault of your own. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic achievement that you managed to make an Intellivision game (we need more)--especially if it's your first game. I say, keep at it, keep polishing and adding features, and let's see where this thing goes. I'll keep playing it and testing. -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Good start! The simplest way to make the periscope not cause a collision, is to make it a 2nd sprite and move it relative to the body of the submarine. If you ignore any collisions between the periscope and the background/enemies the player will not be any the wiser about the change. Using another sprite also allows you to change its colour. If you aren't using all the available hardware sprites you could make the player's avatar 2 or 3 colours and add more colours to the chest/octopus as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) I made the periscope a second sprite (the fifth one) so now I have five sprites on the screen at the same time. Something the Atari 2600 couldn't do (at least without flickering.) For those interested, I also put in the code I'm using. You'll notice the binary file is 6k. So wouldn't that mean I have 10k left if I make a 16k cart? Edited May 30, 2015 by atari2600land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Here's a little understood fact: When the Intellivision documentation and programmers talk about cartridge ROMs being 16K, they mean 16 Kilo-Words, not Kilo-Bytes. The Intellivision is not "byte-addressable," so the ROM is accessed in 16-bit words or cells (i.e., two contiguous bytes). A 16-bit word is typically known as a "DECLE," this is an artifact of history. Back in the old Mattel days, it was cheaper to use 10-bit-wide ROM chips instead of 16-bit. DECLE comes from DECA, meaning 10. Even though we now use 16-bit-wide ROMs, the name stuck around. (The Intellivision CPU can handle addresses of either 10 or 16 bits. In fact, there are special provisions in the architecture to support both modes.) Therefore, a "16K" Intellivision ROM is actual 32 KB (two bytes in every 16-bit DECLE). So, don't worry, your ROM is not in any danger of reaching its maximum. -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Gee, I guess Mattel was really strapped for cash! Makes you wonder why they even bothered to put out a console. Thanks for the info. I can make the game 32k if I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Gee, I guess Mattel was really strapped for cash! Makes you wonder why they even bothered to put out a console. Computer memory was an expensive component back in the 1970s and early 1980s. Also, the infrastructure of computers was not really standardized in the way that it is nowadays. There were computers using all sorts of computational units, including some based on decimals or binary-coded-decimals. The 8-bit byte was just starting to become the de facto standard. Moreover, the Intellivision started being designed around 1977, during the transition of 8-bit to 16-bit microprocessors, so 16-bit memory chips were not very common and therefore much more expensive. We're talking about a a significant chunk of change in large scale production of cartridges, not just pennies like you would imagine now. This is mostly the reason why games were constrained to small ROM sizes, with cartridges expanding as memory chips became commoditized and the price came down -dZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 I can make the game 32k if I want to. You can make it up to 42K words, without bank switching, if you want to. So that'd be an 84K game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 All the info about the early days of gaming is interesting. I was born in almost 1983, so I didn't get to experience it then. But looking at it now, I am wishing more and more that it was like what it was back then now. My first "console" was a Commodore 64, and even then, I was only playing games for early kids like Kindercomp. An 84k game? Has anyone done that before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GroovyBee Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 An 84k game? Has anyone done that before? As far as I'm aware, DZ-Jay's Carol game is close to that for the full implementation and a bit less for the publicly available ROM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 An 84k game? Has anyone done that before? Not that I know of. So far, the biggest ROM out there right now is Christmas Carol, at a rather plump 38K (That's about 76KB). I hear that Caves Of Kroz is much larger, but it uses bank switching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM_Intellivision Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Interesting info GroovyBee & dZ. Do you guys know how large Space Patrol, D2K and other of the larger games are? Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Interesting info GroovyBee & dZ. Do you guys know how large Space Patrol, D2K and other of the larger games are? Joe. Space Patrol is about 16K, I think, and D2K is not that big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeM_Intellivision Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 dZ, Wow! Very interesting - I'm very surprised by that but I guess they were programmed extremely well in order to accomplish that! Forgive my ignorance as I am NOT a technical guy and don't know the 1st thing about programming. With the LTO Flash coming out, I assume this will open up an opportunity for some really awesome games in future. Thanks for information. Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) So as not to totally derail this thread, here's level 9. Edited May 30, 2015 by atari2600land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+nanochess Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 So as not to totally derail this thread, here's level 9. Cool! and you still have lots of space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 So as not to totally derail this thread, here's level 9. Cool! I will try it later, but does this binary contain all levels or does it start at level 9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 dZ, Wow! Very interesting - I'm very surprised by that but I guess they were programmed extremely well in order to accomplish that! Nice try. Most of the space of Christmas Carol was taken by the animation graphics, which are uncompressed. There's lots of graphics animation in Christmas Carol. The Snowman, for instance, has 9 frames of animation in its sequence--in each orientation--and the arms are over 16. Below is a sample of the arm animation. Compression certainly would have brought this down, but it would have taken longer to complete, and may have impacted the performance of the game. @@Attack: :0 :1 :2 :3 :4 :5 :6 :7 :8 :9 :10 :11 :12 :13 :14 :15 :16 :17 ........ ........ ........ .......# .......# ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ......#. .......# .......# ......#. ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ....#... ......#. .......# .......# ......#. ....#... ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ....#... .....#.. ......#. ......## ......## ......#. .....#.. ....#... ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ .....#.. .....#.. .....##. .......# .......# .....##. .....#.. .....#.. ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ .....#.. ....##.. .......# .......# .......# .......# ....##.. .....#.. ...#.... ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ...#.... ....###. ......#. .......# .......# .......# .......# ......#. ....###. ....#... ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ....#... .......# .......# ........ ........ ........ ........ .......# .......# .....### ....#### ......## .......# .......# .......# .......# ......## ....#### .....### ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ....#... ...#.#.. ....##.. ......#. ......#. ......#. ......#. ....##.. ...#.#.. .....#.. ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ...#.#.. .....##. ......## ......## .....##. ...#.#.. ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ....#... ......#. ......#. ....#... ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ....#... ......#. ......#. ....#... ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ......#. ......#. ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 The binary posted in this thread starts at level 9. If you want one that starts at the beginning, you can download it here: http://www.atari2600land.com/gosubintv/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I hope you are making a GoSUb snow level!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+atari2600land Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 I hope you are making a GoSUb snow level!!!! How would I do that? Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 How would I do that? Any ideas? Don't mind him. He always demands a snow level on every game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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