Apology to AtGames. and good deal games

[voltron]

I Want to apologize to atgames and good deal games for my recent rant and those other involved behind the scence. I dont want to discuss what I learned behind the scence and who is affected, so that It can end soon. My passion for Intellivision got the best of me and it actually took a toll on some friends of my in the Intellivision community. So My apology to everyone I hurt with my rant. If a mod could delete the thread I started please do so, because I dont kno how to do that..

Edited September 16, 2014 by voltron

[wolfy62]

Please don't feel bad. It was a limited release by someone who has never made a game for the Intellivision lovers and I know he meant well and had no idea how much demand there would be for a new game for the INTV.

 

And we cant be at every Expo if a limited release shows up.

 

It does put a collector in a tough spot!

[freewheel]

If you can do it in a way that doesn't compromise anyone, or expose anything personal or whatever - I'd be curious what you learned behind the scenes.

 

I won't lie, I was with you in a teeny, tiny way. Limited releases of things just piss me off because it deprives the rabid fanbase of something, all so that Ebay resellers can gouge people. I wasn't as strongly opinioned as you because I know full well that a ROM will be available damn quick if the community so decides, in this situation. I find that homebrew ROMs aren't as easily obtained if a product is available for anyone to purchase (almost like we have scruples in this scene, eh?). I've never been a fan of piracy when a product is still being sold by the owner of the IP, but abandonware doesn't bother me in the slightest. Of course I'm a communist who thinks IP protection should actually expire (and measured in years, not the decades and centuries we have now or will soon have). I'd also be a lot less pissed off if Blix was a FB exclusive for now. Not on a console that MAY be released a year or 3 from now, but the current FB. THAT I'd be all in favour of. Limited release to drive sales of the FB, then sell carts to the enthusiast/collector community after say a year.

Edited September 17, 2014 by freeweed

[Rev]

The shortest boycott in history!

[+intvsteve]

Being myopic, in that I only follow the Intellivision scene, here's what may be a silly question:

 

Does this kind of reaction happen for other platforms? Or, maybe more accurately, did this happen the first time a similar event occurred for Atari?

 

There were multiple show-exclusive games for Atari and Colecovision -- at the same limited quantities -- and CGE 2014 was certainly not the first time this happened for those platforms.

 

Overall, we should be excited that Intellivision has risen enough in profile to garner this treatment. To me, it points to an exciting future. Hopefully it's not just the case of a rising tide of retro/classic gaming at this particular time raising all boats. Since delivering carts for the Intellivision is actually more difficult than most of the other classic platforms (so it's been said), it takes extra effort. We no longer have to be happy with "You'll get nothing... and like it!" -- let's not scare off our new suitors!

[+Gemintronic]

Being myopic, in that I only follow the Intellivision scene, here's what may be a silly question:

 

Does this kind of reaction happen for other platforms? Or, maybe more accurately, did this happen the first time a similar event occurred for Atari?

 

 

My experience is with the 2600 scene. I'd say making, buying and playing collectable games has been a pretty upbeat experience. I think those who offer the ROM afterwards definitely help. I also think it's easy to exchange feedback on that side of the fence.

[+intvsteve]

I wanted to clarify my point about making new carts for Intellivision being 'harder.' The increased difficulty is technical -- nothing more. I think for most other systems, you can actually still get EPROMs that are compatible w/ the old cart PCBs and essentially remove the old ROM and solder in a new EPROM with the new game. Certainly someone will correct me if that's in error. That's way simpler than how it works for Intellivision. Addressing and the kind of ROM are distinctly 'non-standard,' and AFAIK there's no stock of compatible EPROMs out there. Luckily, we've got a number of really smart people out there who have figured out how to do this.

Edited September 17, 2014 by intvsteve

[pimpmaul69]

Being myopic, in that I only follow the Intellivision scene, here's what may be a silly question:

 

Does this kind of reaction happen for other platforms? Or, maybe more accurately, did this happen the first time a similar event occurred for Atari?

 

There were multiple show-exclusive games for Atari and Colecovision -- at the same limited quantities -- and CGE 2014 was certainly not the first time this happened for those platforms.

 

Overall, we should be excited that Intellivision has risen enough in profile to garner this treatment. To me, it points to an exciting future. Hopefully it's not just the case of a rising tide of retro/classic gaming at this particular time raising all boats. Since delivering carts for the Intellivision is actually more difficult than most of the other classic platforms (so it's been said), it takes extra effort. We no longer have to be happy with "You'll get nothing... and like it!" -- let's not scare off our new suitors!

i used to follow the 2600 threads but i stopped (which sucks cause i dont know what homebrew roms are available now) but there are a few diehard cut throats on there that ruin the experience for people like me who are just gamers. We dont really have people lashing out at one another, trying to rip everyone off, and causing other mayhem in the intv forums.

[+Gemintronic]

i used to follow the 2600 threads but i stopped (which sucks cause i dont know what homebrew roms are available now) but there are a few diehard cut throats on there that ruin the experience for people like me who are just gamers. We dont really have people lashing out at one another, trying to rip everyone off, and causing other mayhem in the intv forums.

 

diehard cut throats.. is that, like, those people that buy a limited run game just to immediately flip it on eBay?

[pimpmaul69]

diehard cut throats.. is that, like, those people that buy a limited run game just to immediately flip it on eBay?

the ones who buy 10 copies to control the ebay market. And the ones who hears word someone is going to buy something and they will do anything to get it for themselves. Here in the inty section the die hard collectors are pretty chill and dont go stabbing each other in the back to get what they want. They have an understanding amongst each other.

[+Gemintronic]

the ones who buy 10 copies to control the ebay market. And the ones who hears word someone is going to buy something and they will do anything to get it for themselves. Here in the inty section the die hard collectors are pretty chill and dont go stabbing each other in the back to get what they want. They have an understanding amongst each other.

 

I have seen people actually agree to not outbid eachother. That's pretty darn cool. Also, helping eachother complete their collections. That's a very rare thing.

[pimpmaul69]

I have seen people actually agree to not outbid eachother. That's pretty darn cool. Also, helping eachother complete their collections. That's a very rare thing.

not so rare over here in inty land you would be surprised how many/ often have helped others with their collections. I wanted to get an intv two and for free i received one with the ecs the system changer and jetsons ways with words for the ecs. I too have sent people rare game stuff for free/ cheap

[+Gunoz]

I can't speak for other platforms having only had an Intellivision, but similar things happen with other collectibles too. When Playmates was making Star Trek Next Gen figures each was numbered, and they'd routinely number over 100,000 and sometimes 200,000 for popular characters. The whole line was cranking along like a well oiled machine when they decided to come out with 3 special edition figures limited to 1701 each. Let's just say the fan reaction was not positive. They attempted to correct by upping the edition to 3000, and then later releasing a variant triple pack, but the damage was done. The line was never the same afterward as many collectors who knew they had no chance to ever see these 3 figures at a reasonable price gave up and left.

[freewheel]

That wouldn't be the first and it won't be the last time that companies have seriously underestimated fan backlash. Making a limited edition for its own sake is cool. Make 10,000 of those figures. That way the fans know they have something fairly unique, but it doesn't drive speculators into hoarding them just to fuck over the few people who actually want these things. It's strange, too. There are very few times that this will actually make a company MORE money. Selling fewer items just means less profit, plus alienating your core market if you do it severely enough. The only people it pleases are speculators. The ONLY time this makes sense is when your product line is dying and you're trying to convince suckers to "invest" - ie: selling more product than you would otherwise, because the only people who will buy are not fans.

 

Obviously with homebrew gaming things are different, because of the difficulty in producing carts and whatnot. And I don't think people are exactly becoming rich in this business. But making extremely limited editions solely to drive interest? With a digital product you're committing suicide in the long run. Fortunately it seems to be pretty rare. In this instance it seems like someone underestimated demand - lesson learned.

[pimpmaul69]

That wouldn't be the first and it won't be the last time that companies have seriously underestimated fan backlash. Making a limited edition for its own sake is cool. Make 10,000 of those figures. That way the fans know they have something fairly unique, but it doesn't drive speculators into hoarding them just to fuck over the few people who actually want these things. It's strange, too. There are very few times that this will actually make a company MORE money. Selling fewer items just means less profit, plus alienating your core market if you do it severely enough. The only people it pleases are speculators. The ONLY time this makes sense is when your product line is dying and you're trying to convince suckers to "invest" - ie: selling more product than you would otherwise, because the only people who will buy are not fans.

 

Obviously with homebrew gaming things are different, because of the difficulty in producing carts and whatnot. And I don't think people are exactly becoming rich in this business. But making extremely limited editions solely to drive interest? With a digital product you're committing suicide in the long run. Fortunately it seems to be pretty rare. In this instance it seems like someone underestimated demand - lesson learned.

you reminded me of a time an atari 2600 homebrew was going to make more copies and one of the original buyers was furious that his game wasnt going to be as limited edition. He claimed it wasnt about the monetary value. If it isnt about money why would you have a problem with more being released at the exact same price you paid for it?

[freewheel]

you reminded me of a time an atari 2600 homebrew was going to make more copies and one of the original buyers was furious that his game wasnt going to be as limited edition. He claimed it wasnt about the monetary value. If it isnt about money why would you have a problem with more being released at the exact same price you paid for it?

 

Yup. I remember a loooong time ago, when a lot of less common ROMs still weren't dumped. Someone got their hands on a particularly rare title (think Air Raid for 2600 rare) and started looking for someone to dump it. A couple of people who owned the game got absolutely livid and threatened to call the FBI and such - note that these were not the copyright owners or related to them in any fashion. Just people who either got lucky or overpaid on early forms of Ebay and such. I actually saw this repeated a few times during the early years of emulation. But no, it's never about the money, right?

 

Quite frankly if I paid say $50 for a new homebrew, and demand got high enough for the author to make a bunch more copies at $30, I'd be overjoyed. I'm buying these things primarily to support the creator, not as an investment and certainly not just to have an expensive toy. If more people can enjoy it, and if the guy/gal who spent untold hours on it can make a bit more out of their work - all the better!

Edited September 18, 2014 by freeweed

[pimpmaul69]

Yup. I remember a loooong time ago, when a lot of less common ROMs still weren't dumped. Someone got their hands on a particularly rare title (think Air Raid for 2600 rare) and started looking for someone to dump it. A couple of people who owned the game got absolutely livid and threatened to call the FBI and such - note that these were not the copyright owners or related to them in any fashion. Just people who either got lucky or overpaid on early forms of Ebay and such. I actually saw this repeated a few times during the early years of emulation. But no, it's never about the money, right?

 

Quite frankly if I paid say $50 for a new homebrew, and demand got high enough for the author to make a bunch more copies at $30, I'd be overjoyed. I'm buying these things primarily to support the creator, not as an investment and certainly not just to have an expensive toy. If more people can enjoy it, and if the guy/gal who spent untold hours on it can make a bit more out of their work - all the better!

i am a gamer. End of story. If i paid more for something that was released later for cheaper so be it. When they dropped the price of the 3ds months after its release i was happy. I paid full price for it to get it on release date. I would still do that on a video game knowing in a few months the price was going to drop. It isnt about price to me, it is about how bad i want to play the game. But now with my current situation it is roms on a wii. If only i could get some homebrew intv roms even at cart price there are several i want, but most of them arent willing to sell them to me even at cart prices.

[Rik]

One thing i can say about ATgames is bless them for the great Flashbacks they put out, but they sure as heck SUCK at testing out their FB's. With the Atari FB3, they included an unplayable Secret Quest in FB3 due to it not having a switch to access the status screen. The 2600 used the B&W switch for that.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Rik

[mdoerty]

Making a special show edition of a game also available (or made available) in other ways is fine.

Making a special snow game that is not available elsewhere in another way becomes a lose-lose.

 

I have walkways felt this way since it started with Ms. Space Fury for the Colecovision at CGE2K1.

And I was not silent about anow I felt at Philly Clasic that year (and yes, I got a show version of 4-Tris that was and was again made available in different ways).

 

What complicates factors with Intellivision is that there are more people taking the compliant route to collecting than in other systems where it is impossible. So there is the potential for a lot more heartache.

 

Personally, I am hoping for a Blix-FUBAR combo game in 2017. Now we just have to make it happen.