Commando review, WTH is this guy talking about?

[Stevaside]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/atari7800/585382-commando/reviews/review-84076

 

^ From interview on above link:

 

" Sounds: 4/10

 

There is no background music that plays, unlike the arcade and NES versions of this game, and the sounds that are showcased within would be easily considered sub-par for the Atari 2600 (which is somewhat expected since the Atari 7800's sound hardware was loosely based on the Atari 2600's sound architecture.) The game could have benefited from a POKEY chip (a special sound chip used with the 5200) to give it some more arcade-like quality sounds. "

 

^Bahahaha

 

 

I finally got this game, & it's one of the last few games I need for my 7800 collection. Really enjoy it & the funny thing is I absolutely love the music. I'm finding myself humming it around the house it's so damn catchy. lol....

[Lost Dragon]

:-) I assume he's played it on an emulator, not actual hardware? (something i've seen crop up in various UK mags over the years when articles written about comparisons between systems or look at a systems lesser known games, hey some don't even bother to play game, just use Youtube and report on in-game music, when in fact it's just music youtuber has dubbed on top :-) ).

 

Plus, there's a rating given for the story? bloody'ell.....

[Stevaside]

:-) I assume he's played it on an emulator, not actual hardware? (something i've seen crop up in various UK mags over the years when articles written about comparisons between systems or look at a systems lesser known games, hey some don't even bother to play game, just use Youtube and report on in-game music, when in fact it's just music youtuber has dubbed on top :-) ).

 

Plus, there's a rating given for the story? bloody'ell.....

 

Yea, gotta be...there's just so much wrong information out there about classic games in general I'm noticing lately.

 

The thing that really gets me is he obviously has an understanding of the 7800 POKEY thing, yet is stupid enough to know which games actually used it lol

[Trebor]

Lost Dragon's presumption is likely accurate.

 

The posted date of the review: "Originally Posted: 01/23/05"

 

In the past, this was quite common.

 

Previously, Commando had been widely distributed with a wrong header - so you would not hear any of the POKEY music, just TIA sound.

[+MrFish]

Previously, Commando had been widely distributed with a wrong header - so you would not hear any of the POKEY music, just TIA sound.

 

Apparently it's only a problem in MESS though. I had the problem you refer to when I tried MESS for the first time a few months back. But I'd been using the same ROM file with the wrong header in ProSystem emulator for years with no problem.

[George35]

I got Commando new in '93 and never had music. Never knew it was supposed to have music until about 10 years later when I read about it somewhere on this site. Could it be possible that there were a run of defective carts?

[Trebor]

But I'd been using the same ROM file with the wrong header in ProSystem emulator for years with no problem.

 

ProSystem's manually maintained internal database is evidently overriding the header information. An emulator which cannot read header data properly without issue, makes it difficult for future ROMs to be supported without that manual information being fed with each new game revision or dump. It is often stated to 'add this information to the ProSystem.dat file' despite the ROM being dumped and having its header set correctly.

 

The Commando ROM file with the wrong header setting is, in effect, a bad file and ideally an emulator should present the data as described in its header. Working around incorrect header information encourages and supports the spreading of a inaccurate file with wrong data. This is actually a good case in point, considering a good image with correct header details has been available for well over a dozen years, yet to this day a bad ROM image is still being utilized.

 

Regardless, the problem is with the ROM image having wrong information in the header. ProSystem is providing the illusion that a incorrect file is a correct one.

 

Additionally, with the upcoming Harmony Concerto cartridge, if someone would plan on using it and if it supports the *.a78 file format, it would be most beneficial to have good/proper images of games, as when tested with MESS, you will obtain the correct end results working towards that goal.

 

Here is the correct file for those in need/interested: Commando (1989) (Atari).a78

Here is the PAL designated one, if that is needed as well: Commando (1989) (Atari) (PAL).a78

[AlecRob]

I thought the difficulty switch turned the music off or on

[Trebor]

I thought the difficulty switch turned the music off or on

For some titles, yes (I.E. Super Skateboarding, Sentinel, Ikari Warriors). Not this one though.

[+MrFish]

 

ProSystem's manually maintained internal database is evidently overriding the header information. An emulator which cannot read header data properly without issue, makes it difficult for future ROMs to be supported without that manual information being fed with each new game revision or dump. It is often stated to 'add this information to the ProSystem.dat file' despite the ROM being dumped and having its header set correctly.

 

The Commando ROM file with the wrong header setting is, in effect, a bad file and ideally an emulator should present the data as described in its header. Working around incorrect header information encourages and supports the spreading of a inaccurate file with wrong data. This is actually a good case in point, considering a good image with correct header details has been available for well over a dozen years, yet to this day a bad ROM image is still being utilized.

 

Regardless, the problem is with the ROM image having wrong information in the header. ProSystem is providing the illusion that a incorrect file is a correct one.

 

Additionally, with the upcoming Harmony Concerto cartridge, if someone would plan on using it and if it supports the *.a78 file format, it would be most beneficial to have good/proper images of games, as when tested with MESS, you will obtain the correct end results working towards that goal.

 

Here is the correct file for those in need/interested: Commando (1989) (Atari).a78

Here is the PAL designated one, if that is needed as well: Commando (1989) (Atari) (PAL).a78

 

I agree 100%. Thanks for the information and explanation.

 

Now I'm wondering if I have a bad Space Invaders dump, as it doesn't play correctly in MESS but is fine in ProSystem.

[Trebor]

What version of MESS are you utilizing? If it is something older than 0.153 (~April 2014), you may be obtaining bad results due to inferior emulation. MESS 0.153 was a big leap forward in not just squashing many game bugs, but coming closest to real hardware timings.

 

Version 0.154 improves upon that even more, and the latest SVN/future release 0.155 is the best yet. Not just for hardware timings, but incorporating proper XM (includes POKEY, HSC, YM2151 support) and subsequently XBoard, along with 'stand-alone' HSC support.

 

Nonetheless, I do not recall any issue ever with Space Invaders under MESS, you may indeed have a bad dump - or at least a 'bad header'

 

I'll double check and follow up.

[Trebor]

I got Commando new in '93 and never had music. Never knew it was supposed to have music until about 10 years later when I read about it somewhere on this site. Could it be possible that there were a run of defective carts?

 

Don't know if a run of defective carts occurred - I would guess likely not. However, this has been proven:

 

"When making the Pokey Beef Drops I ran into a couple of carts where Pokey did not work. The cart would only have TIA sound and I found no problems with damaged board traces, so I swapped out the pokey chips and then pokey sounds worked afterwards (yes, I didn't test them before cannibalizing and converting them). I also have seen a cart or two that had really badly installed pokey chips (one end would be virtually soldered on top of the board and not even in the holes, all though they were soldered and did work. Also on a few, the boards were dirty and sometimes the cap at the pokey was completely corroded off and falling apart (these were brand new sealed carts and the the carts and labels were clean, so god knows where the boards were stored before assembly). So yes, I would say it is possible to get a bum one. "

 

Side note: Brand new sealed carts with clean labels having dirty boards and corroded...Wow.

 

I know there are some real hardcore collectors out there, but man, imagine paying a small fortune for sealed/new games only for the inside of those carts to be (bit) rotten. It will inevitably happen to all hardware. Although, I guess for that kind of collector they have no intention of opening the box in the first place.

 

Just makes you wonder about the value of some of those "new/sealed" games, if it was already known the cart inside had garbage internals.

[+MrFish]

What version of MESS are you utilizing? If it is something older than 0.153 (~April 2014), you may be obtaining bad results due to inferior emulation. MESS 0.153 was a big leap forward in not just squashing many game bugs, but coming closest to real hardware timings.

 

Version 0.154 improves upon that even more, and the latest SVN/future release 0.155 is the best yet. Not just for hardware timings, but incorporating proper XM (includes POKEY, HSC, YM2151 support) and subsequently XBoard, along with 'stand-alone' HSC support.

 

Nonetheless, I do not recall any issue ever with Space Invaders under MESS, you may indeed have a bad dump - or at least a 'bad header'

 

I'll double check and follow up.

 

No need. I just downloaded the ROM again here from AA and it's working fine now.

 

I'm using 0.153, but I'll get 0.154 -- didn't know it'd been released.

[+DrVenkman]

 

Don't know if a run of defective carts occurred - I would guess likely not. However, this has been proven:

 

"When making the Pokey Beef Drops I ran into a couple of carts where Pokey did not work. The cart would only have TIA sound and I found no problems with damaged board traces, so I swapped out the pokey chips and then pokey sounds worked afterwards

 

I know for a fact that POKEYs can also go bad. I have a 1200XL that, for whatever reason, required swapping the GTIA, ANTIC and POKEY chips to get working properly. Nothing else wrong with it, and it's absolutely pristine inside the RF shield - looked like just rolled off the assembly line except for a little dust in the corners of the case. At first graphics were horribly corrupted but replacing the ANTIC and GTIA fixed those issues. It still had timing issues, had trouble registering keypresses and wouldn't boot from the SIO port until I also replaced the POKEY. Works perfectly now.

[Stevaside]

Edited September 23, 2014 by Stevaside

[Jinks]

totally bogus dude!!