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Cinepak, what's missing?

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Yep but the Jaguar can read any format the filesystem drivers are never made althought Atari had planned several formats in there roadmap.

I know Chilly Willy told me he wrote an ISO driver for another system aswell by reading raw sectors.

 

He told me he would write a driver if we could get him a CD-ROM player :-)

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Yep but the Jaguar can read any format the filesystem drivers are never made althought Atari had planned several formats in there roadmap.

I know Chilly Willy told me he wrote an ISO driver for another system aswell by reading raw sectors.

 

He told me he would write a driver if we could get him a CD-ROM player :-)

 

And I'd learn to drive a Lamborghini if you all bought me one.

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I would if had the money :-) but sorry still saving $$$ for other stuff.

 

Orion also got a CDROM donated to write games for it Chilly is the samething... But I don't beg for $ i will get one sooner or later for him...

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I would if had the money :-) but sorry still saving $$$ for other stuff.

 

Orion also got a CDROM donated to write games for it Chilly is the samething... But I don't beg for $ i will get one sooner or later for him...

 

So someone should send Vladr a jagpad then :P

 

I'm just saying these things are like $150....

 

someone with a collection of "SNES, SMS, Genesis, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, Dreamcast, N64, GameCube, PSX, PS2, PS3, PSP, Amiga, Mac (68K and PPC), PC (from 286 to modern), Atari 8-bit..." can probably afford their own.

 

Why don't you buy one for Defjam, at least he's given the community something.

Edited by CyranoJ

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I also use ROQ codec for Philia on Falcon CT60, but it's barely realtime on a CT60 @ 66Mhz (with C code and fast SDRam)

For the bare Falcon 030 version of Philia, I had to use an asm optimized version of the cinepak codec, because @ 16mhz it was the only codec that could do realtime. (and not in fullscreen)

So, I guess doing ROQ on Jaguar in optimized asm will not be that strait forward to have something realtime.

Edited by Orion_
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I never ask anyone to buy me stuff, but I gladly accept donations. :) I have bought most of my consoles off ebay for cheap... except the Dreamcast BBA, which is the most expensive thing I have (even more than my PS3), and the Atari Jaguar. I'm saving towards buying a JagCD from B&C, but it'll be a while... maybe next spring.

 

And performance issues is what makes a task fun! If it's easy, it's not nearly as fun. :D

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I was thinking about that two days ago. In Europe, ST was THE computer who make the Atari brand knows, in Europe, it was mainly by demo, in USA it was better by games, especially with 8 bit consoles.

 

(Juste notice, it was only a personnal reflexion)

 

In europe, a lot of crew was born because demomaking is good for you ;) the list of all Atari ST democrews is too long, i don't want to list them.

 

Jagware is mainly constitued by demomakers. Why ? 3 reasons i think, the Jaguar is an Atari machine, the Jag got a 68000 and coding on a Jag is exactly like coding a demo on an ST : no operating system, everything done by hand.

 

In 'Demoland', Defjam is a coder of a crew called Checkpoint, a 'fuckin rockin try to beat dis demo' crew. Have a look on their productions : http://www.pouet.net/groups.php?which=431

 

They start to code on a Jag, look here : http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=63929

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Copying small bloc with blitter is a bad idea. Writing all registers for copying a small bloc is slower than doing a 'brute force copy'.

 

Big bloc no problems, but smaller........................

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Copying small bloc with blitter is a bad idea. Writing all registers for copying a small bloc is slower than doing a 'brute force copy'.

 

Big bloc no problems, but smaller........................

Yeah, that was my main concern about blitter acceleration - the size of the blocks. Maybe for 8x8 blocks, but not smaller. I was going to get it going with just the GPU to start, then experiment with the blitter. Of course, the GPU has some provisions for moving phrases at a time. I'll have to see if that can be applied here as well. One issue about using 16-bit pixel (CRY or RGB565) is that motion compensated blocks can be on any word boundary, which on many processors means you have to move by words to avoid alignment restrictions. I used 32 bit RGB on the N64, so all moves are longs. If I optimize the N64 more, I'll probably take advantage of the 64 bit registers for moving when the alignment is right for that. I need to go back through the Jaguar hardware manual and review all the various rules on alignment for the GPU.

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Hello Saturn!, I have recently found my Cinepak burning tools (by rubixcube6) and have relearned how to make a good quality cinepak CD and encrypt it also. You may want to read my Reboot thank you post in their Downfall+ thread thanking them for the utilities; CD Encryptor: Skunkboarded and the QUAKE picture display programs. I recently made two cinepak cds and encrypted them and made some JagCD Picture roms using their QUAKE program - it's awesome. Ok, well real quick I have uploaded the Cinepak burning tools folder and 2 texts that I use to burn cinepak CDs. I will help you create a cinepak cd from what I relearned about it. Let me go over some points you'll need to make your own cinepak cd with the desired content.

 

Ok, first you need to copy the CDRECORD program in the folder to your "system32" folder within the windows folder on your C:\ drive and if on Windows 7 64-bit then also copy it to the "sysWOW" folder too. Then open an administrative "CMD" dos window change the directory to system32 and type; cdrecord -scanbus take note of the dvd burner location on your computer and then change it to the same in the CD_Tools folder below batch file and save it for later when you double click it to run it. This is so cdrecord can find your burner.

 

When you make your cinepak videos, use a setting - to .avi in the QTPro movie exporting command and well I started with bitrate 120kbps but you can go up to 145kbps i think (haven't completed that test yet) will let you know how it comes out. If you right click your cinepak converted QTPro movies, check the details pane it will say a very high bitrate, well into the megabits range(not kilobits) but it should still work on the JagCD!

 

You can use my text to just copy and paste the required number of video tracks(TRACK04.RAW TRACK05.RAW, etc.) you made to the batch file, if you want to use reboots Cd encryptor you need to add HOLDER.RAW to the end track.

 

The other text is the PADCD string used for encrypting - fluffing out the key.ggn file.

 

Keep your cinepak videos under 5 minutes - I don't know what happens but it fucks up and freezes sometimes with long videos so I keep them at max 4:50 times. We could do more experimenting to see if maybe a low bitrate file would run longer than 5 minutes on the JagCD and not freeze.

 

I use a video converter program called AVS Video Converter to cut up and convert all videos to Mpeg-4 or 3iVX Mpeg-4 videos before I take them over to QTPro for cinepak conversion.

 

Oh and with AVS Video Converter or others I'm sure try to beef up the audio volume in addition to any other stuff to enhance your videos like I use extra contrast, sharpness and brightness - a touch of each cause lots of videos are sometimes shitty, washed out or dull.

 

Very important, when you get to Jagmods' converter - use version 1.52 from his site or you could still use vers. 1.51 which is included here - with the .avi files to drop on the program(Jagmod says to use .MOV files) to get the .T00 video file the sound has a reverse ATOM fuckup so the sound will come out as white noise unless you check "Skip conversion of RAW audio data.......etc..CoSo after effects" and also "square root(lossy)" in the box. This is why I up the audio volume in the pre-conversion to a 3-8 decible boost to make up for the lossy bullshiite. lol

 

Ok, uhhhh, when I think of some more info I will post bro, sorry it took so long for me to get this info/files to you Saturn - I never forgot when you sent me that CD of Soulstar many years ago, :)

 

If you need more help or have additional questions just post here or PM whatever you like.

 

Files below.

 

oval

 

 

 

 

 

jag video cd tools.rar

Jaguar Padcd string.txt

Cinepak-burnencbat-TXT!.txt

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When you make your cinepak videos, use a setting - to .avi in the QTPro movie exporting command and well I started with bitrate 120kbps but you can go up to 145kbps i think (haven't completed that test yet) will let you know how it comes out. If you right click your cinepak converted QTPro movies, check the details pane it will say a very high bitrate, well into the megabits range(not kilobits) but it should still work on the JagCD!

Sounds like the setting was kiloBYTES per second instead of kiloBITS per second, which is what you normally pass to encoders. 1X CD rate (cooked, not raw) is about 1.2 Mbits per second. 2X is twice that. However, note that most cinepak encoders are actually outputting constant quality, not constant bitrate. So you get variable sized frames that average out to about what you asked for. You need to watch the encoder and keep the rate low enough that the maximum bitrate is never exceeded (unless you buffer the data ahead of the decoder, and then you can exceed the max by how much your buffer stores ahead of the decoder).

 

 

Keep your cinepak videos under 5 minutes - I don't know what happens but it fucks up and freezes sometimes with long videos so I keep them at max 4:50 times. We could do more experimenting to see if maybe a low bitrate file would run longer than 5 minutes on the JagCD and not freeze.

Now that's weird... why would it have a limitation like that? That's part of why I want to work on my own decoders. I don't have any trouble playing 30 minutes on the N64 with my ROQ player. When playing long videos, the USUAL issue isn't hanging, it's keeping the audio in sync with the video. My current playing code syncs the video to the audio since the N64 can't guarantee an exact playback frequency. So I let the audio play back at the N64 rate, knowing it's off by maybe half a percent, then use the amount of audio played as a timestamp for advancing the video. It works great at keeping the video in sync, and is super easy to do on consoles.

 

Anyway, thanks for releases all this stuff! It will be handy for some folks, and gives me more to look at while working on my own stuff.

Edited by Chilly Willy
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Now that's weird... why would it have a limitation like that?

 

Lack of reliable error correction and inherent Jaguar CD unreliability. It probably can't track for that long without skipping out. It's ok if your CD audio pops once in a while, it's fatal in a video stream though.

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Lack of reliable error correction and inherent Jaguar CD unreliability. It probably can't track for that long without skipping out. It's ok if your CD audio pops once in a while, it's fatal in a video stream though.

Ah, yeah, that would probably do it, depending on how good the player is in skipping errors.

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Yes, I'm thinking CJ is on the right track as for why videos tend to black out after about 5 minutes on the JagCD. Yeah, see what I try to do is encode cinepak video to the max bitrate, going right to the edge of it's capabilities and when the player is operating at max thoroughput if there is the slightest hiccup the screen goes black. On pre-conversion of the videos(AVS Video Converter) I use average bitrate encoding to vary the quality of the video to maintain an overall bitrate, so the over 5mins. blackout tends to happen at the same spot in the video - possibly when there is just a little to much picture detail for the player to handle. i do have options of varying the bitrate to maintain constant quality as complexity increases, and constant bitrate - varying the quality of the video and dropping frames if necessary to maintain instantaneous constant bitrate. I am thinking I should be using the latter? You know I'm not sure because the QTPro conversion changes to cinepak so wouldn't that negate what was done in pre-conversion? IDK, did you know that video compression techniques is considered almost an electronic art form, I have a book on it - maybe i should read it more, lol.

 

So my workflow is like this: find a video I want to run on the Jag, then take that to AVS Video Converter and encode it into an Mpeg-4 or 3iVX Mpeg-4(but Zerosquare said it is lossy which it prolly is) in max 320x240 aspect ratio - although you can resize the video with the cinepak conversion in QTPro by clicking properties and watching the aspect ratio as you adjust the window by holding the corner. From there i drop it on Jagmods' converter to get the .T00 file which is renamed to a TRACKXX.RAW then place it in the burn folder.

 

Now Jagmod says to use .MOV files to drop on his converter and I notice it's harder to get more detail in the picture with that method - but I believe videos don't cut out as often after more than 5 minutes playing time - since the quality is less, the jag cd doesn't have to work at max thoroughput constantly.

 

Oh, Saturn with the Cinepak-burnencbat.TXT!,txt file I made you would, of course just highlight/copy the amount of track.raws you need and only use that in the batch file always ending in the holder.raw if you want to encrypt. I just made that so I don't have to type all that with each disc made and to avoid errors as even a single blank space will mess up the cdrecord burn.

 

So yeah, I got a stack of 100 taiyo yuden cds I will be experimenting with because each little thing we want to test out costs: 1 CD-R to check it out! Every change cost a CD-R lol! So many variables as several different stages of video conversion to figure out!

 

So, I will at least re-upload the PD movie 3 disc set - Night of the living dead to my Mega account for Saturn and anyone else who wants it. I just need to make a .cdi, .nrg or .iso and .rar it lol! I seem to prefer .rars over .zips

 

I was thinking I should take screenshots of all my settings panels I use and upload those to for reference.

 

Here's a few shots of all the programs used opened on my desktop....

post-9089-0-45997000-1414813871_thumb.jpg

post-9089-0-49574800-1414813936_thumb.jpg

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Sounds like the setting was kiloBYTES per second instead of kiloBITS per second, which is what you normally pass to encoders. 1X CD rate (cooked, not raw) is about 1.2 Mbits per second. 2X is twice that. However, note that most cinepak encoders are actually outputting constant quality, not constant bitrate. So you get variable sized frames that average out to about what you asked for. You need to watch the encoder and keep the rate low enough that the maximum bitrate is never exceeded (unless you buffer the data ahead of the decoder, and then you can exceed the max by how much your buffer stores ahead of the decoder).

 

I'm not sure if the; kbps in the details pane of M$ Winblows7(jk!) of this cinepak converted video is meaning kilobits or kilobytes(bytes is the smaller bitrate size right?) but this video file runs on the Jaguar and is decent quality for the Jag, lol. Another thing, should I looking at the total bitrate - video and audio combined? to judge Jag playability? Anyways, I'm at 145kbps in QTPro conversions and i haven't gone higher yet recently since i started doing this again. I can sacrifice another CD-R to test. One thing is that some encoders say that; if the video quality is high in details the encoder may overshoot the set bitrate, if of course the encoding setting is not set to constant bitrate or something to that effect.

 

Also, I have keyframes set to every 120 frames as you can see in the other screenshot which is supposed to be calculated as: fps - for the Jag it's 24fps multiplied by 5 which is 120. This is as I understand it how to calculate keyframes. Of course all keyframes set to 1 or 0, forgot, for both used encoders on the project would be the best, but use more disc space.

 

(girl is from the movie "Dagon" (2001))

post-9089-0-66305700-1414825414_thumb.jpg

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You should be looking at the total bitrate when determining if it will play on a CD. You need all the components - video, audio, and the container accounted for. Since the JagCD is 2X, the very max the total bitrate can be (without concerning the buffering) is 2.8 Mbits/sec. That will max out the CD at 2X, with no allowance for errors (so be sure to test the discs after burning for any errors).

 

I don't know what kind of controls QTPro gives you since I use FFMPEG for my encoding. FFMPEG always encodes cinepak in constant quality mode, where -q:v N sets the qscale - the quality constant to shoot for while encoding. Values of N of 1 to 5 work well for low-res videos at 12 to 15 FPS for 1X CDs, or 24 to 30 FPS for 2X CDs. If you needed 24 to 30 FPS at 1X for some reason, 10 to 14 is the range to try.

 

One reason you might want your video targeting 1X - you give yourself time to retry a read in case of errors or loss of tracking by the CD.

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I added & burned a single 4m 15s video to disk and it plays great with a bypass cart. Using either the Skunkboard or Matthias' original BJL CD Encryption disk to get the key.ggn or cd_hash.dat, it says "CD error 1st pass retry #1..." .

After it gives the error (always within 2 minutes of initiating) the JagCD just spins with no change to the screen (turned it off after an hour.)

 

Is there a known cause or fix for this or is it 'doing its thing' and I should leave it running longer?

I have little to measure an actual length of time against besides a few places where people have said it can take quite a while. I don't want to burn the motor if it's not getting anywhere, though.

 

I made sure it was set up properly using another unencrypted disk (game) and the key.ggn was sent almost instantly.

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I got that same error too, recently. But it still was able to process the disc. And your cd doesn't have too much info to get thru, so I'm not sure what's going on. Maybe just try it again. When you used cdrecord to burn it did you see it putting HOLDER.RAW at the end of the burning process looking at the number of blocks being recorded? I only have ever used reboots' utility for encrypting, which I know does work good. Maybe try a different JagCD unit too.

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I got that same error too, recently. But it still was able to process the disc. And your cd doesn't have too much info to get thru, so I'm not sure what's going on. Maybe just try it again. When you used cdrecord to burn it did you see it putting HOLDER.RAW at the end of the burning process looking at the number of blocks being recorded? I only have ever used reboots' utility for encrypting, which I know does work good. Maybe try a different JagCD unit too.

What I saw many times over was that it hung at Scanning TRK 4, my added video. After a minute or so of the initial scan it gave the retry error. After that, it would just spin with no change. I'm going to try another JagCD as soon as I can unpack one. The 'original' unit I use has been put through hell in the last few months and that could very well be the problem. I also have/had a fan mounted above and to the right side (as you're looking at the Jag) facing downward at a 45° angle blowing into the 'vents' to keep it cooler. Especially during that BattleMorph Walkthrough 2 week period. That biotch played out the other day and almost started a fire so I've been using the JagCD without any external fan lately.

 

Anyway, I'll see what I can do with the 'more unused' unit(s) :thumbsup:

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Anyway, I'll see what I can do with the 'more unused' unit(s) :thumbsup:

 

No luck with 3 other JagCD units. Tried two different computers, too just in case. Also made a new CinePak disk. None of the changes worked.

It also seemed to successfully scan less each subsequent time. First, hung at track 4. 2nd attempt, hung at track 3. 3rd try it wouldn't get past track 2.

Ran jcp -c, connected again and the progress varied each time. Tried rebooting the computers, no difference.

 

Strange because the last CD unit I tried was the most recent one I got from Best back in July. I know that baby works and has the least amount of use out of the four. :cool:

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JagCD is magic !!!!!! :)

 

It's an Atari machine (That means featuring a lot of new things you will discover during utilisation !!) but surely the worst Atari machine, too much issue, lifetime very short without using screwdrivers....

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Strange all my jagcds run without any issues ... Only had transport issues that it was stuck when they were transported by mail. But overhere they are not moved anymore and work great.

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