Lost Dragon Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 :-) 'All this digging around for proof of Tomb Raider and Quake proves this mentality; clutching at straws, basically.' My personal digging for info based on these 2 titles has been to basically try and get a few 'facts' established if possible after certain suggestions were given a degree of 'credibility' by a self proclaimed Lost Game expert. Whilst i'm not doubting that Jaguar Supplement free with Edge, that Atari paid for did indeed have pics of swagman and Tomb Raider (though i've never personally clapped eyes on said supplement), i'd wager the swagman screens were same CGI renders pulled off Core's workstations for previews elsewhere.As for Tomb Raider? well thanks to Edge interview with Core, we know concept alone started out on MCD era, so technically it never started out on Jaguar, and common sense alone has even me knowing it would have been a very different looking game on Jaguar CD.As for Quake on Jaguar? never been convinced personally, no matter what UFG etc said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Whilst i never owned a Jaguar CD Drive, i've seen enough footage of it's best games, read enough interviews with those who did code for it etc, to be aware of what it basically offered developers over standard Jaguar carts and fantastic as game engines like those powering ISII, Hoverstrike S.E are (and i'm sure further optimisations could have been made, more squuezed out of Jaguar if tricks coders are aware of now, existed back then), i'm more than aware of where the Jaguar had it's strengths and where it had it's weaknesses. Texture-mapped polygons was not it's area of excellence.I'm just happy to see it for what it was, a powerful, flexible machine, sadly hampered by crippling bugs etc that limited what many got out of it.Did i ever really expect to play rougher looking versions of Quake or Tomb Raider on it, let alone Daytona USA as some claim it could of handled? hell no.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 i'm more than aware of where the Jaguar had it's strengths and where it had it's weaknesses. Texture-mapped polygons was not it's area of excellence.I'm just happy to see it for what it was Which is a very sensibly realistic view. Did i ever really expect to play rougher looking versions of Quake or Tomb Raider on it, let alone Daytona USA as some claim it could of handled? hell no.... Also sensible. Now just imagine the people who are still clamoring to play that horrendous version of Quake or TR... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Well I for one would of liked to have seen what it could really handle. It died so quickly. No devs really hit their stride with it. High Voltage Software seemed to be the only development house really starting to but then the plug got pulled on everything. I think we could of gotten bad ass versions of Doom II, Heretic. Hexen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Its the same with the 3do. Developers said that things were in the works using a second generation Road Rash engine. That got killed and they wanted to see it. All the work on the 3do and it was just starting to hit second generation stuff. Edited October 8, 2014 by JagChris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Well speaking as a day 1 (UK) purchaser of the Jaguar: It delivered in terms of giving me THE Aliens game i'd always dreamt of (AVP), the best Mech game i'd ever played (Iron Solider), the best cart version of Syndicate (i thought the SNES/MD versions looked awful), it gave me Doom and wolfenstien 3D without me having to buy and faff around with a PC, it gave me the extreme excellence of Tempest 2000 and i loved it for all of these alone.Yes, i'd of loved to have seen what could be done with the hardware, but Atari did'nt release Skyhammer (i'd exited the scene by time it arrived via other means), i'd paid good money as was and thus the thought of giving Atari more for a CD Drive add-on, with only a handful of must have titles at best, never even entered my head but i was eager to see Legions Of The Undead completed, Dactyl Joust, MK3 etc etc as all these seemed realistic prospects of what the hardware could handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 But did i honestly want to see the Jaguar 'graced' with massively cutback versions of Quake/Tomb Raider/Daytona USA etc? hell no (but Freelancer 2100 could well of been the Jaguar CD 'Killer-App' for myself, IF it lived up to its potential, but since that died a death on PS1 as well, it's just utter guess work as to how the game would have fared).I did'nt need to hold onto the Jaguar for AVP II for a new Aliens game, Acclaim had annouced Alien Trilogy .To myself the prospect of Quake etc appearing on Jaguar would have been another P.R nightmare for the Jaguar.The UK press had already turned on it, comparing latest Jaguar 3D games to those on Saturn/PS1, an unfair comparison, but one they were all too happy to do.Lets assume Quake/Daytona USA/Tomb Raider all made it to Jaguar CD, weakest versions in each case by far... Why on earth would i, as a Jaguar owner see any of them as a sound investment in purchasing a Jaguar CD Drive? i could of put the cost of the Jaguar unit towards a Saturn or PS1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (cont) and gotten better console versions in those cases (though i'd of had to wait for Quake II if i bought a PS1 with money saved for a Jag CD).IF Atari had graced us with Doom II, Hexen, Duke Nukem 3D, Rise Of The Triad, some decent RPG's, exclusives like Skyhammer etc then yes, i'd of held onto my Jaguar a lot longer, but if they'd shoved clunky, sparsely detailed, frame-rate crippled versions of big name games on it, just to try and compete with PS1/Saturn after crowing so much in early days about Jaguar being poised to rip guts out of it's 16 Bit rivals then i'd have found myself siding with the very UK press that had turned on Jaguar, as it would of been sheer stupidity on Atari's part.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 The 3DO however, i do feel had more to give and would have fared better.Soviet Strike, Blood Omen i think would have fared well on 3DO, MGS i'm not so sure about from a technical stand point.Think in terms of 3D Engines, Bladeforce was probably pushing hardware damn hard, i'd of been interested to see if any refinements could be made to the Need for Speed Engine and that powering Space Hulk (loved that game) etc, but it still would have just bought it a few more months at best. Simple fact is, the new wave of hardware had arrived, offering more than 3DO/Jaguar could ever hope to achieve and the public were hungry for it, as were the developers and publishers.In the case of Commodore and atari, the old guard had simply had it's day.For Atari to say Sony would'nt make any impact due to price of hardware (i paid £229 for Jaguar itself on day 1, what was the CD drive RRP price Atari on top of that?) or lack of experience in the market, i always felt a bit odd.Atari it seemed had learnt little from it's time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 The N64 dev scene was bigger during its heyday when copiers like the Doctor V64 were around. The fact is it's not at all feasible to physically make homebrew N64 carts for sale. I'm not saying the development tools on the software side aren't there, but it's not as simple as a Jag or NES cart where you burn a couple EPROMs, pop them on a board and you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Right, here we go.... OK, with luck, won't be too long before i can get Core's interview from Edge mag, Tomb Raider origin of.... put up here.Just been in contact with my 1st coder from Core, bloody longest shot ever, but put question to him if he was ever aware of Cores plans for the Jaguar.Plus been given another 3 or was it 4? i dunno, will have to check email, Ex-Core design coders, but ohhh this is wonderful, they are all contactable via Twitter, something i do not use, nor plan to use...but god/fate/budda/Easter Bunny willing, i might just get a crumb or 2 of 'sense' over just what Core had planned for Jaguar and how far it all got.Doubt it, but had to try something. Any info will be put up here and sent to Unseen64 etc. That bloody Edge supplement has a lot to answer for..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Well, we know they finished Soul Star.... Right, here we go.... OK, with luck, won't be too long before i can get Core's interview from Edge mag, Tomb Raider origin of.... put up here.Just been in contact with my 1st coder from Core, bloody longest shot ever, but put question to him if he was ever aware of Cores plans for the Jaguar.Plus been given another 3 or was it 4? i dunno, will have to check email, Ex-Core design coders, but ohhh this is wonderful, they are all contactable via Twitter, something i do not use, nor plan to use...but god/fate/budda/Easter Bunny willing, i might just get a crumb or 2 of 'sense' over just what Core had planned for Jaguar and how far it all got.Doubt it, but had to try something. Any info will be put up here and sent to Unseen64 etc. That bloody Edge supplement has a lot to answer for..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 It does'nt help when the official contact page for an Ex-Core design coder, now working in USA, decides to BLOCK my bloody internet provider (according to mail delivery failure crap i've just had).Dunno if it's because it's sent from Gmail or what, but that's coder 2 out of the picture for the moment. It'd just be nice to get some 'clarity' on just what was actually lined up for Jaguar (and 32X) by Core, rather than just going on a paid for by Atari supplement in Edge, who we know were told off by Atari Uk for printing incorrect information and had Rebellion scratching their heads over information printed. If it means signing up to Twitter.... (shudder), i might just pass details on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JagChris Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I have twitter. I can contact them if you wish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 @JagChris:That'd be superb.I'll PM over the 3 Ex-Core team staffers details i was given last night and let you work your magic.It's a long shot that any of them will have any crumbs of information regarding Core's plans for the Jaguar, but it's worth a shot at least, right?. Thanks to the community on here, we've already seen the myth of Minter working on Star raiders (lynx) put to bed, i now know what became of 7800 Chronicles Of Cute, it'd be great to hear some 'concrete' details on just what Core provisionally had earmarked for Jaguar and what was simply incorrect claims in the UK press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Dragon Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Update: Ok so 1 of the Ex-Core staffers contact details was Facebook related, so out of my reach. A 2nd Jag Chris has done wonderful work with, tweeted, gotten a contact email for me, i've just emailed him-lets see what happens , but i cannot thank Jag Chris highly enough for taking time out to make this happen and i've just been given a chance i never thought was possible in the past few hours, to get some real research done. Cannot say too much as it might not amount to anything, i know i'm being 'vouched for' and person in question is flat out busy in real world, but i shall be putting Atari related questions to him in a moment.No interview though. And i've the long shot questions put to a 4th Core Design staffer.... 10 days ago i had Jack sh*t, now look at it. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82-T/A Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I think you're simply not aware of what's going on in the other communities. There are flash devices for both the 3DO and Nintendo 64, etc., with plenty of active collectors. In terms of homebrew programming, if you take out the computer side, the Jaguar is fairly low on the list in terms of output to systems like the Atari 2600, Vectrex, ColecoVision, Intellivision, etc., though I will agree that it does better than the 3DO Yeah, I agree with Bill. As sad as it is to say... most of the support / aftermarket of a system comes from how popular it was at one time (people reliving their childhood), or people who are loyally following a brand... IE: Atari. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Dart Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 As somebody said previously, the Jag had this aura of untapped potential around it that surely contributed to the homebrew efforts. And it helps that it's sort of a super-clocked Sega Genesis with regard to the CPU (the wildly popular 68000). This CPU has been used to great effect in other applications, and I'm sure people wanted to see the same done on the Jaguar. Too bad that it's proven to be such a tricky beast overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.